Many failed predictions of Jesus return..

[Elijah John]

Matthew 16:27-28 New International Version (NIV)

27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Fathers glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.
28 Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.

There have been many failed predictions of the "2nd coming of Christ". Most notably, Charles Taze Russell who predicted Jesus would return in 1914. When he didn't return, the prediction was revised to mean an "invisible return".

For debate, in light of the quoted passage from Matthew, was Jesus the first person to mistakenly predict his return?

How is Jesus prediction different from any of the others who have mistakenly predicted the time of his return?

[Checkpoint]

If is a big word with much potential but little value or relevance.

Do you even remember the reason we began our exchange?

I do, and it is a far cry from your latest effort.

Let's get back to square one or call it a day.

Please don't ignore dear sir. It looks really bad.

Here again:

If someone today came to you and talk to you about his imaginary friend: an entity from dimension 7.
About how he sees him and hears him vividly.
That was chosen by this entity because he was special(has some weird anomaly in his brain that makes him suitable to talk to beings from dimentsion 7) to warn humanity of an impending danger that is heading our way: a malevolent conglomerat of alien species is coming to earth with nefarius goals in mind.
And he is very disorganized in speech or thinking(rapidly switching topics, called derailment or loose association; switching to topics that are unrelated, called tangental thinking).

Q: Would you think for a second he is mentally ill? Would a psychiatrist suspect he probably is suffering from a psychotic disorder?

Answer the question please.

O course I ignore your assumptions and leading statements, and the question you posed from those.

Your opinions as re-expressed look doubly bad to me, as I do not even begin to share them.

They are not what this thread is about.

For debate, in light of the quoted passage from Matthew, was Jesus the first person to mistakenly predict his return?
]
How is Jesus prediction different from any of the others who have mistakenly predicted the time of his return?

Just saying my argument is bad, it look doubly bad does not make it so. You have to prove this dear sir.
In correct and honest debate one has to bring a contra-argument, refute the opponents argument.
Just ignoring my points, argument looks really bad I am afraid.

A contra-argument to what?

To what this thread is about, not to off-topic opinions a poster shares.

[alexxcJRO]

A contra-argument to what?

To what this thread is about, not to off-topic opinions a poster shares.

It's still avoiding dear sir. The off topic dodge card.
Calling them opinions does not make it so. One has to prove this.
Still looks bad.

[tam]

Peace to you,

Here again:

If someone today came to you and talk to you about his imaginary friend: an entity from dimension 7.
About how he sees him and hears him vividly.
That was chosen by this entity because he was special(has some weird anomaly in his brain that makes him suitable to talk to beings from dimentsion 7) to warn humanity of an impending danger that is heading our way: a malevolent conglomerat of alien species is coming to earth with nefarius goals in mind.
And he is very disorganized in speech or thinking(rapidly switching topics, called derailment or loose association; switching to topics that are unrelated, called tangental thinking).

Q: Would you think for a second he is mentally ill?

Maybe. Or maybe he is listening to a lying spirit (since the things he is saying are not true). Or maybe a combination of both. Or maybe he just misunderstood what he did hear.


Lot of maybes; but not much to go on either.

Would a psychiatrist suspect he probably is suffering from a psychotic disorder?

Maybe. Not being a psychiatrist myself, I can't really answer that question.



**


All that being said, you can't take this example and apply it to Christ if that is your intent. You can't apply your second point (rapidly switching topics; etc) based upon words from him that you have read. Not when you do not have the tone or inflection, pacing or pauses, eye contact, audience direction, body language, emotion, etc, to go with those words. Any of those things could indicate a natural progression into another topic (if indeed another topic was even being broached).



Not that a single or even couple of examples of quickly switching topics can possibly indicate that someone has a mental illness. Not everyone thinks the same way; regardless though, I suspect that most people have done this at some point in their lives.







Peace again to you!
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Checkpoint]

A contra-argument to what?

To what this thread is about, not to off-topic opinions a poster shares.

It's still avoiding dear sir. The off topic dodge card.
Calling them opinions does not make it so. One has to prove this.
Still looks bad.

Avoiding?

Prove this?

Most of your posts on this thread have proved nothing, and avoided everything.

[Tcg]

How is Jesus prediction different from any of the others who have mistakenly predicted the time of his return?

At least according to the story, Jesus died and therefore didn't have a chance to backpedal on his own claim concerning his own return. Of course many who worship the story have made excuses for him. These excuses are a true testament to the creativity of the human mind and the desire to believe in spite of obvious facts.

Those who made the mistake of a false prediction of his return and weren't fortunate enough to die and therefore had to create their own excuses for their obvious mistake, have oddly been given chance after chance to get it right. They never have of course, but nobody seems to care.

This points to the fact that accuracy is of no consequence when it comes to religious fervor. Just keep promising the faithful what they want to hear and they will believe time and time again. It is almost enough to make one conclude that facts play no part in religious fanaticism.

[alexxcJRO]

Maybe. Or maybe he is listening to a lying spirit (since the things he is saying are not true). Or maybe a combination of both. Or maybe he just misunderstood what he did hear.


Lot of maybes; but not much to go on either.

The evidence of people suffering from psychotic disorders which includes symptoms such the 3 outlined by me is overwhelming.
The evidence for creatures from other dimensions, aliens, Satan does not exist.

Q: So which is more probable to have happened that Jesus actually saw and heard Satan or that he was having a visual and auditory hallucination?
Q: So which is more probable to have happened that our man from my example actually saw and heard a being from other dimension(lying spirit or whatever) or that he was having a visual and auditory hallucination?

Q: So which is more probable to have happened that Jesus is actually the special son of an omnipotent, omniscient, morally perfect God on a special mission or that he was just delusional?
Q: So which is more probable to have happened that our man from my example actually is special human on a special mission or that he is just delusional?

All that being said, you can't take this example and apply it to Christ if that is your intent. You can't apply your second point (rapidly switching topics; etc) based upon words from him that you have read. Not when you do not have the tone or inflection, pacing or pauses, eye contact, audience direction, body language, emotion, etc, to go with those words. Any of those things could indicate a natural progression into another topic (if indeed another topic was even being broached).



Not that a single or even couple of examples of quickly switching topics can possibly indicate that someone has a mental illness. Not everyone thinks the same way; regardless though, I suspect that most people have done this at some point in their lives.

The rapidly switching topics does not point to psychosis on its own but coupled with hallucinations and delusions it does.

[alexxcJRO]

Most of your posts on this thread have proved nothing

Just saying it is like this does not make it so.

Q: Care to substantiate?!

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 76 by alexxcJRO]

The rapidly switching topics does not point to psychosis on its own but coupled with hallucinations and delusions it does.

Just saying it is like this does not make it so.

Q: Care to substantiate?!

[alexxcJRO]

[Replying to post 76 by alexxcJRO]

The rapidly switching topics does not point to psychosis on its own but coupled with hallucinations and delusions it does.

Just saying it is like this does not make it so.

Q: Care to substantiate?!

Here dear sir:

Signs and symptoms

Hallucinations

A hallucination is defined as sensory perception in the absence of external stimuli. Hallucinations are different from illusions, or perceptual distortions, which are the misperception of external stimuli. Hallucinations may occur in any of the senses and take on almost any form, which may include simple sensations (such as lights, colors, tastes, and smells) to experiences such as seeing and interacting with fully formed animals and people, hearing voices, and having complex tactile sensations. Hallucinations are generally characterized as being vivid, and uncontrollable.[13]

Auditory hallucinations, particularly experiences of hearing voices, are the most common and often prominent feature of psychosis. Up to 15% of the general population may experience auditory hallucinations. The prevalence in schizophrenia is generally put around 70%, but may go as high as 98%. During the early 20th century auditory hallucinations were second to visual hallucinations in frequency, but they are now the most common manifestation of schizophrenia, although rates vary throughout cultures and regions. Auditory hallucinations are most commonly intelligible voices. When voices are present, the average number has been estimated at three. Content, like frequency, differs significantly, especially across cultures and demographics. People who experience auditory hallucinations can frequently identify the loudness, location of origin, and may settle on identities for voices. Western cultures are associated with auditory experiences concerning religious content, frequently related to sin. Hallucinations may command a person to do something, which may be dangerous when combined with delusions.[14]

Extracampine hallucinations are auditory hallucinations originating from a particular body part (e.g. a voice coming from a person's knee).[14]
Visual hallucinations occur in roughly a third of people with schizophrenia, although rates as high as 55% are reported. Content frequently involves animate objects, although perceptual abnormalities such as changes in lighting, shading, streaks, or lines may be seen. Visual abnormalities may conflict with proprioceptive information, and visions may include experiences such as the ground tilting. Lilliputian hallucinations are less common in schizophrenia, and occur more frequently in various types of encephalopathy (e.g. Peduncular hallucinosis).[14]

A visceral hallucination, also called a cenesthetic hallucination, is characterized by visceral sensations in the absence of stimuli. Cenesthetic hallucinations may include sensations of burning, or re-arrangement of internal organs.[14]

Delusions

Psychosis may involve delusional beliefs. Delusions are firmly held false beliefs that are not supported by evidence, or held despite contradictory evidence. Delusions are necessarily incongruent with societal norms, and some beliefs may constitute a delusion in certain cultures where they impact functioning, while they may be a perfectly normal belief in others. Delusional thinking is relatively common in the general population with around a quarter of people believing they have special power, and a third believing in telepathy. The distinguishing feature between delusional thinking and full blown delusions is the degree with which they impact functioning. Multiple themes are common in delusions, although cultural norms are highly influential (e.g. religious content differing significantly across countries). The most common type of delusion are persecutory delusions, where a person believes that an individual, organization or group is attempting to harm them. Other delusions include delusions of reference (beliefs that a particular stimulus has a special meaning that is directed at the holder of belief), grandiose delusions (delusions that a person has a special power or importance), thought broadcasting (the belief that ones thoughts are audible) and thought insertion (the belief that ones thoughts are not their own). The DSM-5 characterizes certain delusions are "bizarre" if they are clearly implausible, or are incompatible within the cultural context. The concept of bizarre delusions has been criticized as excessively subjective.[14]
Historically, Karl Jaspers has classified psychotic delusions into primary and secondary types. Primary delusions are defined as arising suddenly and not being comprehensible in terms of normal mental processes, whereas secondary delusions are typically understood as being influenced by the person's background or current situation (e.g., ethnicity; also religious, superstitious, or political beliefs).[15]

Disorganization
Disorganization is split into disorganized speech or thinking, and grossly disorganized motor behavior. Disorganized speech, also called formal thought disorder, is disorganization of thinking that is inferred from speech. Characteristics of disorganized speech include rapidly switching topics, called derailment or loose association; switching to topics that are unrelated, called tangental thinking; incomprehensible speech, called word salad or incoherence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychosis

"Grandiose delusions (GD), delusions of grandeur, expansive delusions[1] also known as megalomania[1][2] are a subtype of delusion that occur in patients suffering from a wide range of psychiatric diseases, including two-thirds of patients in manic state of bipolar disorder, half of those with schizophrenia, patients with the grandiose subtype of delusional disorder, and a substantial portion of those with substance abuse disorders.[3][4] GDs are characterized by fantastical beliefs that one is famous, omnipotent, wealthy, or otherwise very powerful. The delusions are generally fantastic and typically have a religious, science fictional, or supernatural theme"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandiose_delusions

"Symptoms of psychosis
The classic signs and symptoms of psychosis are:
Hallucinations - hearing, seeing, or feeling things that do not exist
Delusions - false beliefs, especially based on fear or suspicion of things that are not real
Disorganization - in thought, speech, or behavior
Disordered thinking - jumping between unrelated topics, making strange connections between thoughts"
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/248159.php

[tam]

Maybe. Or maybe he is listening to a lying spirit (since the things he is saying are not true). Or maybe a combination of both. Or maybe he just misunderstood what he did hear.


Lot of maybes; but not much to go on either.

The evidence of people suffering from psychotic disorders which includes symptoms such the 3 outlined by me is overwhelming.
The evidence for creatures from other dimensions, aliens, Satan does not exist.

Q: So which is more probable to have happened that Jesus actually saw and heard Satan or that he was having a visual and auditory hallucination?
Q: So which is more probable to have happened that our man from my example actually saw and heard a being from other dimension(lying spirit or whatever) or that he was having a visual and auditory hallucination?

Q: So which is more probable to have happened that Jesus is actually the special son of an omnipotent, omniscient, morally perfect God on a special mission or that he was just delusional?
Q: So which is more probable to have happened that our man from my example actually is special human on a special mission or that he is just delusional?

All of this depends upon the evidence you are willing to accept, does it not? For me, according to the evidence I have been given and that I accept, it is more than just probable that Christ spoke with the Adversary and with God, that Christ is the Son of God, that He died and was resurrected and who lives even now.

It is certain.


Essentially, your questions seem to boil down to whether or not there is a God who has a Son.

All that being said, you can't take this example and apply it to Christ if that is your intent. You can't apply your second point (rapidly switching topics; etc) based upon words from him that you have read. Not when you do not have the tone or inflection, pacing or pauses, eye contact, audience direction, body language, emotion, etc, to go with those words. Any of those things could indicate a natural progression into another topic (if indeed another topic was even being broached).



Not that a single or even couple of examples of quickly switching topics can possibly indicate that someone has a mental illness. Not everyone thinks the same way; regardless though, I suspect that most people have done this at some point in their lives.

The rapidly switching topics does not point to psychosis on its own but coupled with hallucinations and delusions it does.

[/quote]


Well then, I guess you're the one stuck trying to prove that Christ suffered hallucinations and delusions. Oh, I guess you're also stuck trying to prove that His thinking was disordered as well.



Peace again to you!