Do atheists not have beliefs?

[historia]

You don't know what I already believe (I don't have beliefs BTW)

This is an assertion that has been made by a few atheists on this forum.

Is it coherent for atheists to claim they don't have beliefs?

[Danmark]

Which just goes to show that "believe" is FAR too broad a term.

And it allows Christians to lump Jesus floating up to Heaven right alongside gravity.

Or the mud-man and his rib-woman wife right alongside evolution.

Too broad for what? What is wrong with a word that has many meanings? Beliefs are not facts. Christians and others have a right to use the word. If someone's belief appears unjustified, you have the the ability to clarify.

However, I agree with the notion that people use words like 'belief' and 'believe' equivocally. It is the equivocation than is the issue. What I do not like is changing the meaning of a word to try to justify an argument.

[Mithrae]

Perhaps we should let believers believe that everyone believes if that comforts them.

Is there a reason for the patronizing tone here?

Is it 'patronizing' to say "let people who find comfort in alcohol continue to drink?"

Is it 'patronizing' to say "let people who find comfort in solitude continue to pursue peace and quiet?"

Why should belief be given any special consideration?

You make a good point. If a few atheists find some sort of comfort in claiming that they have no beliefs, they have every right to try to re-invent the word and use it however they please.

[SallyF]

For one of these

"Believe" is precisely the right term to use.

For the other

The English language needs a new, precise term.

Scary things these neologisms.

Especially when they leave one and one's evidence-free beliefs as naked and exposed as the young man who ran away from Jesus and his gang of mates.
that dark, mysterious night.

Much safer to cover oneself with the stolen old fig leaf of assumed scientific veracity.

But it's rather like the king's new clothes

[Bust Nak]

Which just goes to show that "believe" is FAR too broad a term.

And it allows Christians to lump Jesus floating up to Heaven right alongside gravity.

Or the mud-man and his rib-woman wife right alongside evolution.

Not exactly a problem when we can narrow it down with qualifiers such as the unscientific belief of mud-man and his rib-woman wife.

[William]

[Replying to post 67 by]

Mithrae: Some debatable content there

William: By all means, let me know so that I might perhaps learn a thing or two.

Mithrae: ...but regardless none of that justifies the patronizing tone of Zzxyz's post.

William: As an ex-Xian, do you find that your ability to rise above insults, to have diminished somewhat?
I ask, because as a Christian, devilish insults are easy for me to resist allowing them to find a place to park their parasitical butts in my mind-space and cause insult.


Mithrae: The insinuation that disagreement with his perspective must be due to "comfort" for "believers" intent on equating theology with facts seems to be nothing more than ad hominem lacking any rational merit.

William: Is pointing that out at all helpful to the process?
As a theist, no doubt any such devil-spawn exclamations are meant for me too.
I suppose I just crush them under-heal at the door, before they even get a chance to sprout into my living-space.
After a while I stopped even noticing apparent insults, presuming that if something triggers me, it is a clear indication of The Voice of The LORD at work telling me I have areas within which require work on.

But if you are that concerned, there are processes available in order to lay complaint at the feet of those who can make a decision on it.

[Mithrae]

I ask, because as a Christian, devilish insults are easy for me to resist allowing them to find a place to park their parasitical butts in my mind-space and cause insult. . . .


As a theist, no doubt any such devil-spawn exclamations are meant for me too.
I suppose I just crush them under-heal at the door, before they even get a chance to sprout into my living-space.
After a while I stopped even noticing apparent insults, presuming that if something triggers me, it is a clear indication of The Voice of The LORD at work telling me I have areas within which require work on.

Please tell us more about what a wonderful person you are.

But if you are that concerned, there are processes available in order to lay complaint at the feet of those who can make a decision on it.

This is a debate forum. If someone makes a post lacking rational argument but instead focusing on insinuation/speculation about the feelings or motives of those who disagree with them, that's fair game for rebuttal. The original poster of course is then free to respond... or indeed third parties are welcome to jump in with their own two cents, being "helpful" by praising their own virtuous nature while questioning whether the second poster was being helpful

[historia]

We may very well belief that the trash will be picked up, only to discover that on some days it's not picked up. Therefore are "belief" was proven to be wrong.

Sure, beliefs are often proven to be wrong. A belief is simply taking something to be the case or regarding it as true. If we subsequently discover that something is not the case, then we now realize that our prior belief was incorrect.

We can put the trash out EXPECTING it to be picked up. But believing that it will be picked up is ridiculous.

Believing that a future event is probable or likely is what it means to "expect" something.

I have no need for beliefs of a theistic nature.

Okay, but do you have beliefs of a moral, ethical, or political nature?

For example, do you believe that rape is wrong?

Do you believe that women should have the right to vote?

Do you believe that Donald Trump should be impeached and removed from office?

[William]

[Replying to post 76 by ]

Mithrae: Please tell us more about what a wonderful person you are.

William: I am surprised by your reply.

I was pointing out how my Christian position allows for me to turn the other cheek, and crush the demon at the doorstep rather than allow it to get under my skin.
If that makes me 'wonderful' in you estimate, then don't you want to be wonderful too?

Also, do you want to debate the "debatable content" you mentioned you see in post #66?

[otseng]

Some debatable content there, but regardless none of that justifies the patronizing tone of Zzxyz's post.

Moderator Comment

Please just stick to the arguments rather than commenting on the tone of another post.

Please review the Rules.


______________

Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

[Mithrae]

Also, do you want to debate the "debatable content" you mentioned you see in post #66?

No, for the most part it's been discussed at length already. You see 'belief' and 'knowledge' as being distinct, but common usage and hence dictionary definitions have knowledge as a subset of belief; beliefs (assent to propositions) which are justified and true. If you tell someone "I believe the earth is round" no-one will be confused by what you mean or think that it's speculation or dogma, whereas saying "I don't believe the earth is round" is a claim which will invite confusion or ridicule 100% of the time you tell people, and require further clarification of your own private use of the term. And as Historia has pointed out numerous times, a hard distinction between "faith-based" belief and "knowledge" fails even more fundamentally in the case of evaluative beliefs such as moral, ethical or political views.

Of course as further discussion with Zzxyz has helped to clarify, if there's folk who find some sort of comfort in claiming that they have no beliefs, it doesn't really harm anyone so ultimately that's okay.