Are agnostics more reasonable than atheists?

[otseng]

I'll go ahead and say because of this the agnostic would be more reasonable than an atheist, in the same way atheists think they are more reasonable than Christians. The reason for this is not because of agnostics being all-knowing or arrogant, but rather it's because the PRINCIPLE that agnostics live by. Again, the principle of applying logic and evidence standard to ALL areas would mean that we use REASON more than the atheists that only applies it to matters of religion.

For debate:
Are agnostics more reasonable than atheists?

[William]

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The economy can be opened while keeping deaths low. .

What, exactly, do you consider 'low'?

Coronavirus Cases US as of April 21: 817,006 Deaths: 45,226 (in three or four months -- with moderate containment efforts in place)

Would 150,000 to 200,000 annual deaths be 'low'?

Does the rate have to equal 1918 - 19 levels (675,000 US deaths) to be significant? Note: containment issues WERE used in the flu pandemic 100 years ago and death rates were still that high.

Shall we reduce efforts and try for a new record " to save the corporations?

How about less than 1% death rate??! That is the percentage of deaths among the LOW risk population (younger than 44 years of age, and no pre-existing chronic disease) in a covid-19 hot spot of New York state (Source). Why would you shut down the economy for a population that has 99% survival rate and that only experiences MILD symptoms?

William: A fact most overlooked is that "saving the economy" cries haven't been taking into account the major damage done to the environment. The actors cannot perform on a stage that has been seriously compromised.
The script needs to be changed.

Here's another fact. We exist on a prison planet...(note the lock-down) and the moronic attitudes developed over the centuries are fostered within the captivated human societies and are - in the main - prisoner mentality.

Fact3: The shut down economy has shown us how quickly the Earth can heal, while at the same time has revealed how damaging our precious economy actually is on everything.

Anyone who does not acknowledge these facts, is hardly being Agnostic...that's my opinion...

[Bust Nak]

The only view I offer here is that opening the economy can go together with low covid-19 deaths.

It's a bit late to back track now, what happened to your other view, that the economy should (goal-oriented, as opposed to morally) be open that you were offering right up to this point?

I've proven that so it's not just my opinion.

That's why I am not interested in discussing that view with you, I want to talk about the view that hasn't been proven - that the economy should be opened. You've told me enough times that it is not a belief, but you still haven't got round to telling me what is it yet. Give me direct answers, is it a proposition? Is it a claim? Is it just a mere feeling that doesn't qualify as a view? Is it a desire or a simple thought? These were the words you used else where. Tell me what it is, as opposed to what it isn't.

Do not worry about things I did not say.

Sure, there is plenty to worry about here.

Sorry, I don't have any idea what you mean here. It seems tautological.

When you say to determine truth, you go by logic and verifiable evidence. I want to know if you meant you go by logic and evidence alone, or if you meant you go by go by logic and evidence plus feelings. Which is it?

An agnostic who has no beliefs is more reasonable than an atheists that has beliefs. I explained that in the OP.

The explanation in the OP was a blanket statement, this iteration apply to an agnostic with a certain characteristic, it's no longer a blanket statement.

Liberalism is not a non-propositional view. Feelings are non-propositional (which is all I have in the absence of logic and evidence). That's the difference.

Bits within liberalism are not non-propositional view, those we have logic and evidence for, I am not referring to those bits. I am talking about the bits that logic and evidence alone cannot prove. Do you think those bits are also propositional? If so, why?

[AgnosticBoy]

The only view I offer here is that opening the economy can go together with low covid-19 deaths.

It's a bit late to back track now, what happened to your other view, that the economy should (goal-oriented, as opposed to morally) be open that you were offering right up to this point?

One of my statements is that the economy can be opened while keeping covid-19 death counts low.

The other statement is, "If asked if the economy should be opened then I would say yes, if the goal is to have a good economy."

All of these views are based on logic and evidence.

One good way to notice the difference between an atheist and agnostic is to watch a debate on an actual issue. The atheists, like you, wanted to support Democrat governors who wanted to remain in lockdown. The more moderates and agnostics, and even some Republicans (Christians, at that), were offering a view similar to mine (i.e. risk-based isolations while opening the economy). But most importantly, I used logic and evidence to prove my point.

Go read those debates and tell me why an atheist like yourself couldn't figure how to keep the economy open while minimizing deaths. Tell me why the atheists keep repeating CNN false claims that the disease is just as harmful to young as it is the old.

In fact, if you disagree with my view on covid-19, then how about we deal with this one on one Mr. Atheist? Yes or no????????

[Bust Nak]

One of my statements is that the economy can be opened while keeping covid-19 death counts low.

The other statement is, "If asked if the economy should be opened then I would say yes, if the goal is to have a good economy."

All of these views are based on logic and evidence.

Which is why I've stay away from those two statements. I am granting you for the sake of argument that they are proven by logic and evidence alone.

I want to talk about your third statement: "the economy should be opened." I want to see you either prove it with logic and evidence alone; alternative, you can tell me it's not a propositional statement.

One good way to notice the difference between an atheist and agnostic is to watch a debate on an actual issue... In fact, if you disagree with my view on covid-19, then how about we deal with this one on one Mr. Atheist? Yes or no????????

No. As above, I've granting you that, just so that we can stay on topic on your supposition that you have no beliefs. Now are you going to engage or not?

[AgnosticBoy]

One good way to notice the difference between an atheist and agnostic is to watch a debate on an actual issue... In fact, if you disagree with my view on covid-19, then how about we deal with this one on one Mr. Atheist? Yes or no????????

No. As above, I've granting you that, just so that we can stay on topic on your supposition that you have no beliefs. Now are you going to engage or not?

Ooooh,,.. Mr. Atheist now doesn't want to step up to the plate to accept my debate challenge.

Let me explain why many left-wing atheists couldn't figure it out. The main problem is that many of them are thinking in terms to benefit their side, the Democratic party (typical political thinking). So when it became apparent what Democratic leaders started doing, they followed accordingly. The left-leaning news media followed accordingly. Perhaps some don't even want the economy open because it would benefit Trump? (Again, typical political behavior).

As an agnostic and INDEPENDENT, I don't think in terms of sides because I have no side. Both parties have shown too much ignorance and corruption for my taste. So I'm willing to see and USE the good parts of TRUMP's plan, something which very few atheists will admit to, and combine it with the good views from the Democrat side. I do the same thing when forming views regarding God's existence and other related issues.

Sorry, Mr. Atheist (Bust Nak included), you're not as reasonable as me for this very reason. You refuse to let go of your political, philosophical, and personal affiliations when they deviate from logic and evidence.

[Bust Nak]

Ooooh,,.. Mr. Atheist now doesn't want to step up to the plate to accept my debate challenge.

What do you mean now doesn't want to? This entirely thread I have let you make your assertions about whether the economy can be balance with low mortality without challenging them just so we don't go off topic. This thread is about whether your views are as rational as you claim they are. That's the bit I've questioned you about, time and time again you've not answered my challenge, and now you have to nerve to call me out?

Let me explain why many left-wing atheists couldn't figure it out...

Nice belief you have there, spoken like someone hindered by pre-existing beliefs, dogma and ideology, passing off their opinion as facts.

[AgnosticBoy]

Ooooh,,.. Mr. Atheist now doesn't want to step up to the plate to accept my debate challenge.

What do you mean now doesn't want to? This entirely thread I have let you make your assertions about whether the economy can be balance with low mortality without challenging them just so we don't go off topic. This thread is about whether your views are as rational as you claim they are. That's the bit I've questioned you about, time and time again you've not answered my challenge, and now you have to nerve to call me out?

Yeah, I'm calling you out. You're claiming that the following is a belief:
The economy can be opened while keeping covid-19 death counts low.



Let me show you why it's not a belief by providing the logic and evidence which I've already done on multiple threads, even smashing all of the objections to it. Lets take it to an area where it's one on one, where there's "expedited" moderator intervention for UNSUBSTANTIATED claims. No sense in "debate" if you can just spout out whatever you want.

What do you say, Mr. Atheist? Please don't give me excuses. Yes or no?

[Bust Nak]

You're claiming that the following is a belief:
The economy can be opened while keeping covid-19 death counts low.

No, I am not. I am claiming that the following is a belief:
The economy should be opened while keeping covid-19 death counts low.

How many times do I have to correct your strawman? You are not actually going to deny holding that view now, are you?

Let me show you why it's not a belief...

Not interested. Instead show me why the economy should be opened while keeping covid-19 death counts low is not a belief. Alternatively, affirm that it's not a propositional statement and tell me what on Earth it is supposed to be, a feeling?

[AgnosticBoy]

You're claiming that the following is a belief:
The economy can be opened while keeping covid-19 death counts low.

No, I am not. I am claiming that the following is a belief:
The economy should be opened while keeping covid-19 death counts low.

How many times do I have to correct your strawman? You are not actually going to deny holding that view now, are you?

Let me show you why it's not a belief...

Not interested. Instead show me why the economy should be opened while keeping covid-19 death counts low is not a belief. Alternatively, affirm that it's not a propositional statement and tell me what on Earth it is supposed to be, a feeling?

This is an excuse, Mr. Atheist. I told you the EXACT view that I have. I told you it's the only view that I have. You're making it an issue by calling it an opinion.

Again, I am calling you out. One-on-one... with expedited moderator intervention for Unsubstantiated claims. Come on, this is what this site needs!!

Yes or no?

[Bust Nak]

This is an excuse, Mr. Atheist. I told you the EXACT view that I have. I told you it's the only view that I have.

Sure, you told me your view is that a) the economy can be open while keeping deaths low; b) the economy should be open if the goal is to have a good economy; and c) we should open the economy since you do want to a have a good economy.

And now for whatever reason you don't want to discuss c). If you are actually You are going to deny holding that view then tell me explicitly instead of making vague remarks about telling me what view you have: do you hold the view that we should open the economy while keeping mortality low?

Again, I am calling you out. One-on-one... with expedited moderator intervention for Unsubstantiated claims. Come on, this is what this site needs!!

Yes or no?

You heard me the first time round, the answer is still no, it's off topic. This topic isn't about whether the economy can be opened or not. It's about your claim that you hold no beliefs.