Contradictory statements

[Zzyzx]

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Contradictory statements

Words attributed to Jesus by Luke and Matthew (whoever they may have been) appear to be contradictory (as well as perhaps irrational -- particularly those cited by "Luke").

Luke 14:26 If any man come to Me and hate not his father and mother, and wife and children, and brethren and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.

Matthew 22:39 And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself.

Matthew 7:12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets

Love your neighbor " but hate your father, mother, wife, children, brothers, sisters (and yourself)?

Do unto others (hate them) as you would have them do to you (hate you)?

In psychiatry and psychology, maintaining two or more contradictory statements or positions is viewed as an indication of schizophrenia . . .

Do the statements quoted seem like wise words from a wonderful teacher / leader / preacher?

[MuffMaYne]

[Replying to post 90 by rikuoamero]

Im not sure what "God sans Jesus" means.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 88 by MuffMaYne]

People use language in a way that kinda force through their meaning in way that if read literally wouldn't make sense, but its to force the point. "Its raining cats and dogs." We know that to not literally mean dogs and cats are falling from the sky.

Because cats and dogs have never been reliably observed to have fallen from the sky like rain, we take that phrase metaphorically. That's understandable.

I'm not arguing that the word HATE isn't used, from what I can tell its the correct translation,

It is the correct translation, according to virtually all English translations of the Bible. I am unaware of a single publication that does NOT use hate or similar wording. I am not aware of a single publication that instead uses "love God more than..." or similar wording.

but within the context of the whole its not meant to be taken as treat them bad or with a hatred.

But there still has to be a reason why there are so many translations that say hate.

He's trying to press home the point that God needs to be above all.

Then why do all the English translations not simply say that? Why muddy the waters of understanding by using hate, and not "love God more than..."?

I have no reason to accept...well, your reasoning here, as to what the verse in question "really" means.

MLK gave a speech about why he was against he war in Vietnam and used the phrase "It's a dark day in our nation."

He spoke in English, to a crowd of English speakers, who were well used to that phrase.
Imagine if that were Jesus in the 60s, speaking Aramaic to a crowd of USians who mostly all spoke English.

We recognize it immediately in just about any other kind of text, but neglect to in this case.

I don't 'neglect' in this case, I point out that all Bible translations in English, (at least those on Biblehub) of the verse in question, supposedly all done by professionals with fluency in Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek and English, all use hate.
Are all these translations incorrect? If so, where else?

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 90 by rikuoamero]


[center]
Blasctat sans[/center]

For love towards God though you do need Jesus.

Really? Proponents of other religions, such as Judaism, or those not Abrahamic, would disagree. They have their own ideas about God, and loving God, and quite surprisingly, they don't seem to have a problem with loving God sans Jesus.

Oddly, though, I have a problem loving God and I am very sans.
I'm about as sans as you can sans, baby.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 92 by rikuoamero]

[center]
I know for a fact that this cat don't fall from no sky.. but yummy yummy fishes do[/center]

Because cats and dogs have never been reliably observed to have fallen from the sky like rain, we take that phrase metaphorically. That's understandable.

You might know of fish and frogs falling out of the sky.. it's a rather common phenomenon. Something about the water, I suppose. Jesus loves to walk on water.

Call it "water magic".

Cat click of the fish link baby Fish for dinner anyone?

[MuffMaYne]

[Replying to post 92 by rikuoamero]

Again, and I hate to say it again, but I'd suggest re-reading what I wrote. I don't disagree that the word hate is the correct translation. I'm not a linguist or professional in translating from any language to English.

That being said, its not meant to be taken as literally treat people in a hateful manner. The context in which it's being said is just stating the importance of your affection towards God in relation to others (people).

So it very well may be and probably is translated correctly.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 90 by rikuoamero]

Im not sure what "God sans Jesus" means.

sans is French for 'without' so it's "God without Jesus". So basically, people of other religions, such as Judaism or Hinduism, have their own ideas about God, ideas about loving God and quite seemingly have no problem at all with loving God without Jesus.

[MuffMaYne]

[Replying to post 96 by rikuoamero]

Right, so when I say God I don't mean all gods or some kinda concept of God. Maybe I shouldve been more specific, but by God I mean and only speak about the Christian God.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 95 by MuffMaYne]

That being said, its not meant to be taken as literally treat people in a hateful manner.

Oh, that "metaphorical out".
We get that a lot in here.

The word LOVE is to be taken LITERALLY, but the word HATE is "just a metaphor".
Yeah.. that never works.

Welcome to debates, by the way.

[MuffMaYne]

[Replying to post 98 by Blastcat]

Not at all, the word love can and is used as the same kind of literary tool.

"And over all these virtues put on love" as though its something that can be worn or even touched.

"Do not arouse of awaken love until it desires"

They're just used in very different context because they have very different meanings.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 96 by rikuoamero]

Right, so when I say God I don't mean all gods or some kinda concept of God. Maybe I shouldve been more specific, but by God I mean and only speak about the Christian God.

In which case, I can argue that you weren't being clear enough. I also can argue that you seemed (to me at least) to be arguing that people have problems with certain behaviours unless they love (Christian) God with Jesus in mind (which is obviously not true).
Just imagine if you had said
"For love towards God though you do need Jesus. and I think that love affects how you treat people."
towards an actual practicisng Jew, or an actual Hindu. Why would they hold to your usage of the word God to mean only the Christian God? They have their own ideas about what that word means. In their mind, God doesn't have anything to do with Jesus.