If you don't follow a/the Church...

[Willum]

If you claim to believe in the Christian god, but do not follow or believe in the practices of any church, and have your own unique perspective of this God, how can you distinguish this from a god you have simply made up?

In other words, how can you know your beliefs about God are better than a churches?
In other words, how do you know, of all the perspectives and interpretations of God, your's are correct? Or that God is what you have imagined?
And if not, how do you justify inventing or imagining a God in defiance of the certainly greater wisdom of a congregation?

If you are wrong, is it not CERTAINLY blasphemy to invent details of God you have no basis for believing are true?

[TRANSPONDER]

I have had someone tell me that I am trying to start my own cult. I believe the bible. Most Churches do not understand the bible spiritually. So when your understanding is different than theirs they have a problem with it. I believe that most of the Churches keep you in infancy. They are not able to understand the spiritual. They disconnected from the Church that started with the apostles. They branched off into their own bodies.

I sympathise. Many interpret the message of the Bible in various ways and the adherents of one sect or another may get as tough with the different - interpreter as they do with the different -believer.

[Willum]

[Replying to Willum in post #1]
You don't have to follow any church. The bible is how you know that you are following the right God. 1 John 2:27
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abided in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teaches you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

This is a respectable point, however, you are left more alone with your opinion of the Bible than ever before with this approach.
How do you know, amidst the bigger organizations and better philosophers who established different religions and sects, that, they don't know better than you do?

Do you respect a literal translation, or a metaphorical? If there was no Genesis, why should you expect a resurrection? It seems very certain to me, that, even were an individual to know the Bible intimately, with the possible interpretations and so on, it would be an incredible coincidence, if not out impossible for an individual to follow the Bible by their own interpretation, when so many groups and smarter peoples have wider beliefs, implementations and practices.

Thank you for your post.

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to tam in post #77]

Well if Christ is your mantra, then you should be dismayed to know, that Christ was only quoted, he cannot be said to have said anything.

Oh well!

Dear Willum, if this is your response to post 77, you did not read (and/or understand) post 77. Or you would have known there would be no reason for me to dismay.

[pjharrison57]

They have to die and be born again. Give up their life in this world. Give up their will, walk, ways, wants and worship: everything that is theirs. Seek God with all their heart and soul. What they would call their worship; come out from under it. Then the Holy Spirit will guide them on what to do next. We have to die first so that the human spirit will take over so that we can communicate with God.

[pjharrison57]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #91]
For an example: When Jesus turn the water into wine, his earthly mother says to him, there is no more wine. He says, what does that have to do with me? She says to the servants, do whatever he tells you to do.
I believe that Mary came to hm because she seen him do it before. She says to the servants, do whatever he tells you to do. He had been with her family since birth. I'm sure they never lacked for anything. God was with them. She probably seen him do many things.

[pjharrison57]

[Replying to Willum in post #92]
There can be people on this earth who are brilliant according to what is in between time and space, but the bible is a spiritual book. We need the Holy Spirit to give us understanding. The carnal mind is enmity with God. It cannot understand the spiritual things. So we are unable to understand unless the Holy Spirit give us understanding.

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #91]
For an example: When Jesus turn the water into wine, his earthly mother says to him, there is no more wine. He says, what does that have to do with me? She says to the servants, do whatever he tells you to do.
I believe that Mary came to hm because she seen him do it before. She says to the servants, do whatever he tells you to do. He had been with her family since birth. I'm sure they never lacked for anything. God was with them. She probably seen him do many things.

There are many other ways of interpreting it. That's the problem. Yours (that she knew he could do miracles) is just one reasonable interpretation. Believing that one is getting True Interpretation (tM) downloaded by God into their heads is not a new approach, either.

[brunumb]

[Replying to Willum in post #92]
There can be people on this earth who are brilliant according to what is in between time and space, but the bible is a spiritual book.

No it's not. It's just a book compiled by human beings with a whole lot of musings about our origins and purpose that ancient people wanted to have answers about.

We need the Holy Spirit to give us understanding. The carnal mind is enmity with God. It cannot understand the spiritual things. So we are unable to understand unless the Holy Spirit give us understanding.

That's just one of those convenient excuses plucked from "The Giant Omnibus of Christian Loopholes". If someone doesn't agree with the stock standard Christian interpretation then call upon the imaginary Holy Spirit to provide a non-demonstrable reason to account for it. Works every time, if you are a believer. You really have to wonder why the Holy Spirit won't just give understanding to everyone and then let the chips fall where they may. Seems a lot fairer to me. Of course if there is no Holy Spirit in reality, then........

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to Willum in post #92]
There can be people on this earth who are brilliant according to what is in between time and space, but the bible is a spiritual book.

No it's not. It's just a book compiled by human beings with a whole lot of musings about our origins and purpose that ancient people wanted to have answers about.

We need the Holy Spirit to give us understanding. The carnal mind is enmity with God. It cannot understand the spiritual things. So we are unable to understand unless the Holy Spirit give us understanding.

That's just one of those convenient excuses plucked from "The Giant Omnibus of Christian Loopholes". If someone doesn't agree with the stock standard Christian interpretation then call upon the imaginary Holy Spirit to provide a non-demonstrable reason to account for it. Works every time, if you are a believer. You really have to wonder why the Holy Spirit won't just give understanding to everyone and then let the chips fall where they may. Seems a lot fairer to me. Of course if there is no Holy Spirit in reality, then........

Yes. That's the question that comes up every time - Why doesn't God simply let everyone know that He's real and make it clear what He wants from us. The only excuse the God -apologists have is that this would abrogate Faith.

The abrogation of Free will is not relevant here as God hath revealed Himself to us through his Book and works, and putting better evidence in our heads and convincing proof in front of us is not doing anything different (and I'm not even going to touch on the times He absolutely overrode Free Will to get what he wanted). So the odd and rather unsettling idea that I'm sure is behind this argument is that believing in God because there's no question or doubt about kit On Evidence is not going to earn you Grace. What is needed is Blind Faith, which is to say, Faith without evidence and in spite of the evidence.

I'm convinced that there is this Sacrifice and martyrdom idea that the more the believer has to deny compelling evidence, the better their Faith is. If they can reject reality in favour of Faith (1) that's the purest Faith of all. And the trying to show that it has to be wrong and making them look dishonest, denialist and crazy just adds a Martyr's crown to their Faith - based denial of everything else.

Of course, outside of Religion, they trust Reality as much as any materialist; They have the same Faith I do that their car will start. It's just that if it doesn't, I don't blame Satan. He does, and prays for it to heal before taking it to the garage.

The religious mindset is Fascinating, truly fascinating.

(1) "If the Bible said that 2+2 = 5, I wouldn't say it was wrong, but would try to find a way of making it work." In fact all he'd have to do is say: 'It works in a way we can't understand, but God does."

[Willum]

[Replying to pjharrison57 in post #96]

So you are saying that people without wit need the Bible?

That is offensive.