If you were Satan....

[Athetotheist]

I remember a TV preacher once asking his broadcast audience, "If you were Satan....." I don't remember the rest of the question, but I seem to remember that he was talking about prophecy and arguing that Satan was up to some diabolical mischief ("If you were Satan, isn't that what you would do?").

A lot of detail in Christian scripture about what is to happen before Jesus returns is tied to the activity of "Satan". The appearance of the "antichrist", in particular, is supposed to be part of Satan's last gambit before he goes down to utter defeat.

Since it was asked of me how I would react if I were Satan, I think it's fair for me to answer. I know that "Satan" is supposed to be a being of superhuman intelligence, but I can't help thinking that if such a being actually existed and if I were that being, I could do a lot better.

If I were "Satan", I would scrap the antichrist plan. If it's all laid out in the Bible, then everyone knows what to expect and you've lost the element of surprise. With that one simple deviation from the prophetic scenario, the whole thing would be gummed up. No antichrist, no mark of the beast, no abomination of desolation, no anything I was supposed to do as Satan to set the stage for the return of Jesus. And without those prophetic components in place, Jesus couldn't return to fulfill prophecy. And how could anyone stop me? I wouldn't be taking some action which could be prevented; I would be defeating prophecy by not taking action.

So let me pass the preacher's question on to you. If you were "Satan", what would you do----or not do----to thwart prophecy?

[The Nice Centurion]

[Replying to The Nice Centurion in post #89

Perhaps Satan read Oedipus and learned a thing or two. We dont know.

You're still talking about "Satan" like he's real, further fueling my suspicion that you're a stealth apologist. Either that or a gadfly with nothing better to do than waste time arguing just for argument's sake.

Manners, pal! Manners!

Or are you posessed by Satan?

(That would be an explanation for you first making a thread for him, and than constantly talking about him, plus making him "hyperintelligent" and when therefore criticised making him at last "as bright as you".)

If Satan really got that idea of thwarting prophecy it would be the logical next step for him to find out if thats a good idea or not.
So it would logically follow for him to posess one user of this fine forum, where he could debate us real specialists about the plus and contras of him trying to thwart prophecy!

Kind of makes one think! Doesnt it?

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to The Nice Centurion in post #91

So it would logically follow for him to posess one user of this fine forum, where he could debate us real specialists

Ego, pal! Ego!

"Satan" would hardly need us mortals to test his idea. He wouldn't be bound by Oedipus, or by the Marvel comics which you also seem to take for literature. Want to talk about logic? The logical course for "Satan" would be to simply sit back and let prophecy implode without his cooperation, since that would be the most economical way to win his rebellion, would guarantee success and would certainly be preferable to going into the lake of fire.

And if "Satan" were to possess someone on this forum, the logical reason for that would be to say, "Guess what? Deal's off! I'm not playing my end of the prophecy game, so don't expect that to pan out."

Are you trying to limit what "Satan" could do because what he could logically do is too scary for you?

[The Nice Centurion]

[Replying to Athetotheist in post #92]
Look, I never said your proposition of what Satan should do is unreasonable.
Just saying here that is not necessarily the most reasonable thing for Satan. If you were in Satans shoes/hooves you would know it.

Jesus could make his second coming (in New York of course, where believers already prepared a luxurious house for him from which to rule), . . .

Even Jesus has been priced out of Manhattan.

In Riverdale, The Bronx, on the second highest peak in all five boroughs, sits a mansion fit for a king and we dont mean LeBron James.

nypost-inline-related
The house, variously known as Chapel Farm, Fair Hill or Chapel Hill, was built in the 1920s for one special resident to live in: Jesus Christ.

The idea was, when Jesus returned to earth (via the 1 train, presumably), he would decamp to The Bronx and rule from this opulent, 17-room dwelling. Its a promising sign for those living in the northernmost borough, which will apparently survive the wars, famine, disease, earthquakes and anarchy the Bible predicts to signal the end of days.

Jesus, as we know, had simple tastes. As such, the house originally had just one bathroom. It now has five full, with three halves. There are seven bedrooms though its unclear which was intended for the son of God as well as a gym and sauna. In fact, in light of the orders disbanding, few details of how they envisioned Christs life on Chapel Farm are known today, as most of the records have been lost to history.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com ... r-10m/amp/
https://ny.curbed.com/2017/4/5/15197916 ... jesus-sold

. . . could surely make his second coming without Satans antichrist stuff.

But it seems the antichrist stuff is where Satan builds his followers and that means too his army for armageddon.

I presume he needs an army if he wants to go to war. Without war, how should he win armageddon.

If he, after Jesus 1000 year rule from his house in Riverdale, just doesnt stand up and fight the armageddon war then there is danger that Jesus sends him to hell without even a fight.

Lets say Satan tries not to fullfill prophecy; I showed above that just sitting the second coming out might well be also a bad idea!

And the antichrist is the logical way to draw followers from all the world!

Can you present alternatives for Satan?

Perhaps he eagerly reads this thread and waits for useful hints!

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to The Nice Centurion in post #93

Lets say Satan tries not to fullfill prophecy

He wouldn't have to "try", because he wouldn't have to do anything.

. . . could surely make his second coming without Satans antichrist stuff

Not in fulfillment of prophecy, he couldn't. The antichrist stuff is still in the Christian Bible.

I showed above that just sitting the second coming out might well be also a bad idea!

All you did was quote a story about somebody building a mansion for Jesus to move into as if you think that would fulfill prophecy, or that it would force "Satan" to do so.

But it seems the antichrist stuff is where Satan builds his followers and that means too his army for armageddon.

I presume he needs an army if he wants to go to war. Without war, how should he win armageddon.

By not instigating Armageddon, as I've already explained. Repeating the same questions after they've been answered is an extremely poor debate tactic.

If he, after Jesus 1000 year rule from his house in Riverdale, just doesnt stand up and fight the armageddon war then there is danger that Jesus sends him to hell without even a fight.

Again, that couldn't be done in fulfillment of prophecy. In nullifying prophecy, "Satan" would still win. And if he were the winner, that would indicate the absence of anyone to punish him.

Doesn't it make more sense to conclude that "Satan" just isn't real?

[otseng]

further fueling my suspicion that you're a stealth apologist. Either that or a gadfly with nothing better to do than waste time arguing just for argument's sake.

Or are you posessed by Satan?

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[The Nice Centurion]

[Replying to Athetotheist in post #94]
You get the notion that I senselessly repeat my arguments in various forms, cause I get the notion that you either not understand or not care for my arguments.

Your "Satan Offers Unfullfilled Prophecy" (SOUP) theory is only one hypothesis among many.
You favor it evidently to draw out of it (logically or not)
the conclusion of Satans nonexistence.

That is the same like the famous bible fanatic who establishes first the bible as fact and than tries to underbuild it with hypotheses.

Doctor Kent Hovind says that Noah must have rationalized that it were most logical to take rather dinosaur eggs on the ark and not whole dinosaurs.
He doesnt care to explain, for example, how Noah bred those eggs. And even Doctor Hovind here is not as self satisfying as your SOUP.

Therefore you present SOUP as fact, no matter what.

I try to lie out before you that your SOUP does not care for all kinds of loopholes, unknown factors, possibilitys . . . and is NOT necessarily the most logical hypothesis.

You do not care to give counter arguments to my helpful critic, instead you parrot that SOUP must be right.

So which one of us resembles more the typical christian apologete ???

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to Athetotheist in post #94]
You get the notion that I senselessly repeat my arguments in various forms, cause I get the notion that you either not understand or not care for my arguments.

Your "Satan Offers Unfullfilled Prophecy" (SOUP) theory is only one hypothesis among many.
You favor it evidently to draw out of it (logically or not)
the conclusion of Satans nonexistence.

That is the same like the famous bible fanatic who establishes first the bible as fact and than tries to underbuild it with hypotheses.

Doctor Kent Hovind says that Noah must have rationalized that it were most logical to take rather dinosaur eggs on the ark and not whole dinosaurs.
He doesnt care to explain, for example, how Noah bred those eggs. And even Doctor Hovind here is not as self satisfying as your SOUP.

Therefore you present SOUP as fact, no matter what.

I try to lie out before you that your SOUP does not care for all kinds of loopholes, unknown factors, possibilitys . . . and is NOT necessarily the most logical hypothesis.

You do not care to give counter arguments to my helpful critic, instead you parrot that SOUP must be right.

So which one of us resembles more the typical christian apologete ???

You're treating the subject as if you were in a room full of writers and saying, "I don't like the way this character has been developed. Let's re-work him and give him different motives."

You seem to be trying to tame "Satan", to make him into less the ambitious rebel he's supposed to be. But you didn't create the character, so you don't get to rewrite him. I'm extrapolating from the way he's described in Christian scripture; I'm not watering him down. I'm pointing out a loophole that such a figure could exploit, and logically would exploit given the way he's described. I'm following the blueprint, not trying to redesign it.

Do you believe that "Satan", the way he's described in the Christian Bible, would just lah-dee-dah along with what was written for him to do, blithely accepting his own defeat and destruction, when instead he could pull down the pillars of the whole prophetic scenario without lifting a finger? Remember: the question is what you would do if you were "Satan", not what "Satan" would do if he were you.

[The Nice Centurion]

[Replying to Athetotheist in post #97]
I give, you might be on to something here with SOUP!

Satan might be practicing SOUP for 1950 years already, and already have proved prophecy false - but what now?

Remember the prophecy of Crist, that his second coming would be still in the lifetime of some apostles!

Then revelation was written!

What if Satan decided like you, that SOUP was the best way to go. Therefore he sent no Antichrist, not while some apostles were still alive, and not until today.

Christs prophecy would be already proven false - But what is Satan to do now?

Again I suggest an extra thread where we debate what Satans plans are for after he wins.

That could enlighten us here in this thread further.

When we have the best understanding possible, of what Satan wants, then we can better hypothice how he supossedly goes for it.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to Athetotheist in post #97]
I give, you might be on to something here with SOUP!

Satan might be practicing SOUP for 1950 years already, and already have proved prophecy false - but what now?

Remember the prophecy of Crist, that his second coming would be still in the lifetime of some apostles!

Then revelation was written!

What if Satan decided like you, that SOUP was the best way to go. Therefore he sent no Antichrist, not while some apostles were still alive, and not until today.

Christs prophecy would be already proven false - But what is Satan to do now?

Again I suggest an extra thread where we debate what Satans plans are for after he wins.

That could enlighten us here in this thread further.

When we have the best understanding possible, of what Satan wants, then we can better hypothice how he supossedly goes for it.

I think another thread is hardly necessary to explore the plans of "the god of this world", as the Christian Bible calls him, who supposedly wants to raise his throne above the stars of God (Isaiah 14:13, though that verse is actually referring to Nebuchadnezzar). Nullifying prophecy would prove that prophecy false. False prophecies don't come from true gods, so for "Satan" it would be mission accomplished.

[The Nice Centurion]

I think another thread is hardly necessary to explore the plans

Thats where you are right = For we already have a thread for that:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=16853

of "the god of this world", as the Christian Bible calls him, who supposedly wants to raise his throne above the stars of God (Isaiah 14:13, though that verse is actually referring to Nebuchadnezzar). Nullifying prophecy would prove that prophecy false. False prophecies don't come from true gods, so for "Satan" it would be mission accomplished.

1) Perhaps you do not know that even Hardcore christians are not neccesarily sure that all prophecy got fullfilled so far! That gives them no hard time.
There is this thing with a city built by Saddam Hussein in Iraq on a place where biblical prophecy states that there would never be a city again.

2) On the other hand; Emperor Julian Apostata tried to thwart prophecy by rebuilding the jewish temple. It was hindered by an earthquake.

3) Of course there is also this great problem with Jesus personal guarantee that he would return within the lifetimes of some apostles seemingly unfullfilled.
(I am repeating myself here 'cause you ignore my arguments.)

So seemingly some prophecys already failed - But where is Satans mission accomplished.