When did Satan fall?

[YEC]

When did Satan Fall?

Some people seem to think that it was pre-creation. In fact some even think it was in a pre-Genesis world that had become formless and void due to the fall....BUT...the following indicates that Satan walked in the Garden of Eden in a pre-fallen state. What do you think?

EZE 28:12 "Son of man, take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre and say to him: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: "' You were the model of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.

EZE 28:13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone adorned you: ruby, topaz and emerald, chrysolite, onyx and jasper, sapphire, turquoise and beryl. Your settings and mountings were made of gold; on the day you were created they were prepared.

EZE 28:14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you. You were on the holy mount of God; you walked among the fiery stones.

EZE 28:15 You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you.

EZE 28:16 Through your widespread trade you were filled with violence, and you sinned. So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God, and I expelled you, O guardian cherub, from among the fiery stones.

EZE 28:17 Your heart became proud on account of your beauty, and you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor. So I threw you to the earth; I made a spectacle of you before kings.

EZE 28:18 By your many sins and dishonest trade you have desecrated your sanctuaries. So I made a fire come out from you, and it consumed you, and I reduced you to ashes on the ground in the sight of all who were watching.

EZE 28:19 All the nations who knew you are appalled at you; you have come to a horrible end and will be no more.'"

Note:The king of Tyre..this section with its superhuman references apparently describes someone than the human ruler of Tyre: namely Satan.
ref Ryrie

[snowman]

The only 'fallen' creatures that I know of is humanity.

The Eden story is quite interesting. Even those passages in Isaiah and Ezekial. I think Isaiah and Ezekial pertain to humans and not some spiritual angel.

We find in the Eden story that the serpent was more subtle/crafty than any other beast of the field that the LORD GOD MADE. And everything that God made was GOOD! Does this mean, then, that the serpent was made by God, and that this was good in his eyes....good for its purpose?

Looking forward to more thoughts.

[harvey1]

When did Satan Fall? Some people seem to think that it was pre-creation. In fact some even think it was in a pre-Genesis world that had become formless and void due to the fall....BUT...the following indicates that Satan walked in the Garden of Eden in a pre-fallen state. What do you think?

Your missing these important scriptures:

"He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you" (I Peter 1:20)

There had to be evil prior to creation in order for there to be a reason for the Lamb to be slain prior to creation.

"And He said to them, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven." (Luke 10:18)

So, if Satan's fall happened along side Adam, then how would you explain that scripture?

[hannahjoy]

Could there not be a heavenly Eden as well as an earthly one?

[YEC]

The only 'fallen' creatures that I know of is humanity.

The Eden story is quite interesting. Even those passages in Isaiah and Ezekial. I think Isaiah and Ezekial pertain to humans and not some spiritual angel.

We find in the Eden story that the serpent was more subtle/crafty than any other beast of the field that the LORD GOD MADE. And everything that God made was GOOD! Does this mean, then, that the serpent was made by God, and that this was good in his eyes....good for its purpose?

Looking forward to more thoughts.

If man was made good...then fell, you know free choice...then why not the angels?

[YEC]

Could there not be a heavenly Eden as well as an earthly one?

That would be x-tra biblical.

Personally I doubt it. If God made a second Eden, why not tell us?

[YEC]

When did Satan Fall? Some people seem to think that it was pre-creation. In fact some even think it was in a pre-Genesis world that had become formless and void due to the fall....BUT...the following indicates that Satan walked in the Garden of Eden in a pre-fallen state. What do you think?

Your missing these important scriptures:

"He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you" (I Peter 1:20)

There had to be evil prior to creation in order for there to be a reason for the Lamb to be slain prior to creation.

"And He said to them, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven." (Luke 10:18)

So, if Satan's fall happened along side Adam, then how would you explain that scripture?

But God knows all.
He knew man would fall and that Jesus would have to die for us.
He also knew Lucifer would fall.

Satans fall occured prior to Adams fall.

[snowman]

harvey1 wrote

"He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you" (I Peter 1:20)

There had to be evil prior to creation in order for there to be a reason for the Lamb to be slain prior to creation.

Maybe he was slain before creation because God knew that mankind would fail (sin). Would this mean then that God already fixed the problem beforehand, but that part of his plan was revealed later?

Now concerning evil. God created evil.

"And He said to them, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven." (Luke 10:1

So, if Satan's fall happened along side Adam, then how would you explain that scripture?

Satan is not even a proper name. It means 'adversary'. The preaching of the gospel by the disciples (with the power of Gods spirit) brought liberty. Things that were adversarial to God fell before his power.

Ooops..sorry for sneaking in here to answer that

Hannahjoy asked

Could there not be a heavenly Eden as well as an earthly one?

Excellent question. Mmmm....I think they are both the same?

[snowman]

YEC asked

If man was made good...then fell, you know free choice...then why not the angels?

First. EVERYTHING God made was good. Now how are we to understand that revelation?

Second. Have you considered that Adam and Eve were made naked? They became ashamed of their nakedness and hid from God after eating from the forbidden tree. Ever wonder what that means?

Third. Free will? Can you give me one scripture that says mankind has this FREE will? What does free mean?

Last. Angels are Gods messengers. They ALWAYS do his bidding. Did you know that God also created evil? If you are referring to Isaiah or Ezekial to show that an angel called Lucifer fell before Adam, and that he was that serpent in the garden to tempt mankind, I'm afraid you may have a hard time substantuating that thought. Did you know that the name Lucifer is incorrectly translated in that passage? Look it up and get back to me. Maybe you see something that I don't

[YEC]

"snowman" posted: YEC asked

If man was made good...then fell, you know free choice...then why not the angels?


First. EVERYTHING God made was good. Now how are we to understand that revelation?

Second. Have you considered that Adam and Eve were made naked? They became ashamed of their nakedness and hid from God after eating from the forbidden tree. Ever wonder what that means?

Are you going to tell us?

Third. Free will? Can you give me one scripture that says mankind has this FREE will? What does free mean?

DEU 30:19 This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live.

JOS 24:15 But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your forefathers served beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD."

JAM 4:7 Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

JAM 4:8 Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.

Last. Angels are Gods messengers. They ALWAYS do his bidding. Did you know that God also created evil? If you are referring to Isaiah or Ezekial to show that an angel called Lucifer fell before Adam, and that he was that serpent in the garden to tempt mankind, I'm afraid you may have a hard time substantuating that thought. Did you know that the name Lucifer is incorrectly translated in that passage? Look it up and get back to me. Maybe you see something that I don't

REV 12:9 The great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

Your turn