Question about Jews

Argue for and against Christianity

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99percentatheism
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Post #51

Post by 99percentatheism »

cnorman18 wrote: I have a question, too: What does any of this have to do with the title question? I see no "questions about Jews" here.
Why have Jews been such an incredible blessing to so many peoples, cultures and societies over the last two-thousand years (at least) and have never gotten any credit for it?

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Post #52

Post by Flail »

99percentatheism wrote:
cnorman18 wrote: I have a question, too: What does any of this have to do with the title question? I see no "questions about Jews" here.
Why have Jews been such an incredible blessing to so many peoples, cultures and societies over the last two-thousand years (at least) and have never gotten any credit for it?
From my limited knowledge of Judaism and my respect for their beliefs, the Jewish people don't seem the type to go around seeking credit; seeking credit would be more Pauline in nature than Jewish.

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Post #53

Post by Goat »

Tex wrote:

Tex: Question.....Do you even believe that the person who wrote Acts traveled with Saint Paul....As the scholars do?

I believe that is the claim that the author of Luke/Acts makes.. and, it is possible that as a young man, he traveled, .. and then when he was much older, wrote the GOL/Acts as a counter theology to some of the other Gospels that came out. .. so of as 'let's straighten out the errors these people made'. If I was going to give odds, I would give it a greater than 50% chance... but not over 80.

The scenario that I heard that makes the most sense is that he was writing as an older man, about things that happened in his youth, and died before he wrote the third part.
“What do you think science is? There is nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. So which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?�

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Post #54

Post by Autodidact »

99percentatheism wrote:
JoeyKnothead wrote:
Holyspirit213 wrote: I mean if the Jews were so committed to Abraham's teachings shouldn't they know that murder is a sin in the eyes of god? Point given, yeah they didn't think Christ was messiah, even though how can a group of preachers kill a man for speaking the word of god? He didn't kill anyone I think all he wanted to do was preach the word of god.. It's confusing
We might ask the same of Christians who do all that stuff you're getting onto the other bunch about.
Could you name one denomination that preaches murder and killing is acceptable Christian behavior?

Man I'm searching my mind about almost all of them and I can't think of even one that "do all that stuff . . ."

Very sloppy thinking there. No denomination teaches that murder is acceptable, because murder is defines as killing which is prohibited. But almost all, excepting Quakers, Doukobors and a few others teach that killing is acceptable. Unless you are a very unusual, you probably believe that killing is acceptable in certain circumstances.

cnorman18

Post #55

Post by cnorman18 »

99percentatheism wrote:
cnorman18 wrote: I have a question, too: What does any of this have to do with the title question? I see no "questions about Jews" here.
Why have Jews been such an incredible blessing to so many peoples, cultures and societies over the last two-thousand years (at least) and have never gotten any credit for it?
I tend to agree with Goat: "credit" is hardly the issue.

Even so, it is true that my people have done much good in the world -- in the sciences, in law, in literary and artistic pursuits, in government, in medicine, and in many other fields, far out of proportion to our numbers. That may be because we have been free to focus on the task at hand, and to see truths clearly in ANY field, since we are not bound or blinkered by religious dogmas nor distracted by the need to compel, or even convince, others to share our beliefs and values.

As to not receiving "credit" -- I suspect that that has much to do with the consistent teachings of the dominant religious authorities in the West, for nineteen hundred of the last two thousand years, that Jews are to be despised as deicides, ritual murderers, and greedy conspirators out to exploit and dominate the rest of society. Such teachings are still promulgated in the dark corners of hatred that remain in the West, and openly in government-sponsored and -funded news and entertainment media, as well as in public teaching and preaching from current religious authorities, in the Muslim world.

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Post #56

Post by 99percentatheism »

Autodidact wrote:
99percentatheism wrote:
JoeyKnothead wrote:
Holyspirit213 wrote: I mean if the Jews were so committed to Abraham's teachings shouldn't they know that murder is a sin in the eyes of god? Point given, yeah they didn't think Christ was messiah, even though how can a group of preachers kill a man for speaking the word of god? He didn't kill anyone I think all he wanted to do was preach the word of god.. It's confusing
We might ask the same of Christians who do all that stuff you're getting onto the other bunch about.
Could you name one denomination that preaches murder and killing is acceptable Christian behavior?

Man I'm searching my mind about almost all of them and I can't think of even one that "do all that stuff . . ."

Very sloppy thinking there. No denomination teaches that murder is acceptable, because murder is defines as killing which is prohibited. But almost all, excepting Quakers, Doukobors and a few others teach that killing is acceptable. Unless you are a very unusual, you probably believe that killing is acceptable in certain circumstances.
You accuse me of sloppy thinking and then go on and give a perfect example of it in your response.

The Doukobors (sic) didn't even come into existence until at least the 16th century. They don't even believe in the Deity of Christ. hardly a great example of "Christians." And the Quakers? Talk about narrow-mindedness.

Christians needn't be cowards to be upholding the Gospels. Jesus, as you may know, didn't free the thief on the Cross next to Him, but allowed his execustion to be meted out. Though, if you are connecting "right-wing" corporatist Christianity, then you may have an excuse for your thinking.

The Doukhobors and Quakers??? Man that's a reach.

I do believe that the Jehovah's Witnesses call themselves Christians these days. And of course the Amsh?

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Post #57

Post by 99percentatheism »

cnorman18
I tend to agree with Goat: "credit" is hardly the issue.
Not a bad sentiment I guess.
Even so, it is true that my people have done much good in the world -- in the sciences, in law, in literary and artistic pursuits, in government, in medicine, and in many other fields, far out of proportion to our numbers.

Yes. John the Baptist, Jesus, Peter and the crew and Paul all Jews . . . set the world on the greatest path in history.
That may be because we have been free to focus on the task at hand, and to see truths clearly in ANY field, since we are not bound or blinkered by religious dogmas nor distracted by the need to compel, or even convince, others to share our beliefs and values.


Yet Torah-observant "Jews" make a very big show of that. Daily, weekly and yearly in fact. A BIG show of it. Not that I'm complaining. Keeping the faith in the face of a degenerate world is quite the accomplishment.
As to not receiving "credit" -- I suspect that that has much to do with the consistent teachings of the dominant religious authorities in the West, for nineteen hundred of the last two thousand years, that Jews are to be despised as deicides, ritual murderers, and greedy conspirators out to exploit and dominate the rest of society.

So true. European pagan influences have really screwed up a sizeable chunk of the religious world. Especially as they are mixed with Judean-Messianic worship of Jesus.
Such teachings are still promulgated in the dark corners of hatred that remain in the West, and openly in government-sponsored and -funded news and entertainment media, as well as in public teaching and preaching from current religious authorities, in the Muslim world.
And always will be it seems.

Thank G-d, that Israeli's can count on Conservative Evangelicals (Christians) to always support them.

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Post #58

Post by Autodidact »

Very sloppy thinking there. No denomination teaches that murder is acceptable, because murder is defines as killing which is prohibited. But almost all, excepting Quakers, Doukobors and a few others teach that killing is acceptable. Unless you are a very unusual, you probably believe that killing is acceptable in certain circumstances.
You accuse me of sloppy thinking and then go on and give a perfect example of it in your response.

The Doukobors (sic) didn't even come into existence until at least the 16th century. They don't even believe in the Deity of Christ. hardly a great example of "Christians." And the Quakers? Talk about narrow-mindedness.

Christians needn't be cowards to be upholding the Gospels. Jesus, as you may know, didn't free the thief on the Cross next to Him, but allowed his execustion to be meted out. Though, if you are connecting "right-wing" corporatist Christianity, then you may have an excuse for your thinking.

The Doukhobors and Quakers??? Man that's a reach.

I do believe that the Jehovah's Witnesses call themselves Christians these days. And of course the Amsh?
I'm sorry, I should have made my point more clear. It is simply that most Christians believe that killing is acceptable in the right circumstances, and chances are that you are one of them.

So what was the point of your question?

I don't know any such thing; I don't even know whether there was any such person, or if so exactly what he may have done or said. I don't understand the point you are trying to make in that paragraph either; could you clarify?

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Post #59

Post by 99percentatheism »

Autodidact

Very sloppy thinking there. No denomination teaches that murder is acceptable, because murder is defines as killing which is prohibited. But almost all, excepting Quakers, Doukobors and a few others teach that killing is acceptable. Unless you are a very unusual, you probably believe that killing is acceptable in certain circumstances.
You accuse me of sloppy thinking and then go on and give a perfect example of it in your response.

The Doukobors (sic) didn't even come into existence until at least the 16th century. They don't even believe in the Deity of Christ. hardly a great example of "Christians." And the Quakers? Talk about narrow-mindedness.

Christians needn't be cowards to be upholding the Gospels. Jesus, as you may know, didn't free the thief on the Cross next to Him, but allowed his execustion to be meted out. Though, if you are connecting "right-wing" corporatist Christianity, then you may have an excuse for your thinking.

The Doukhobors and Quakers??? Man that's a reach.

I do believe that the Jehovah's Witnesses call themselves Christians these days. And of course the Amsh?
I'm sorry, I should have made my point more clear. It is simply that most Christians believe that killing is acceptable in the right circumstances, and chances are that you are one of them.
Certainly. Like Jesus and His apostles, we are free thinking and logical people too. You are confusing martyrdom with a good cause. BUT, there is no way to justify kiling people "In the Name of" Jesus. Martyrdom is the only response in that aspect.

Or I guess I could be writing in German, Russian or Japanese?
So what was the point of your question?
Simply to respond to yours.
I don't know any such thing; I don't even know whether there was any such person, or if so exactly what he may have done or said. I don't understand the point you are trying to make in that paragraph either; could you clarify?
If that "any such person" is Jesus (?), than you shoud excuse yourself from this website. Jesus-deniers have no place in debates like these, even if this thread is about questions about Jews. Maybe even more appropriate actually now that I think about it.

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Post #60

Post by Holyspirit213 »

Why do the Jews claim messiah all the time and then die. I mean I saw like 3 or 4 Jew rabbis claiming the messiah and then dying. Do they speak to god and does god tell them they are the messiah or do they get so into themselves that they actually start relating themselves as the messiah?

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