How do Christians justify Exodus 31:12-15?

[Justin108]

The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15)

1. Did this command come from God?

2. If so, why don't Christians follow this command?

3. Did Jesus change this law?

4. If so, why?

[JehovahsWitness]

The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15)

1. Did this command come from God?

2. If so, why don't Christians follow this command?

3. Did Jesus change this law?

4. If so, why?

Jehovah's Witnesses believe that this [Sabbath] law is part of what is often referred to as the Mosaic law code. This refers to a set of laws given only to the nation of Israel and that Christians are not Under this code.


1. Did this command come from God?

Yes, it is one of the "Ten Commandments" spoken, and eventually written by God himself (see Ex 20:8)

2. If so, why don't Christians follow this command?

(see opening paragraph)

3. Did Jesus change this law?

No, he FULFILLED it.

4. If so, why? N/A


Further reading
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2010084

[Justin108]

The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15)

1. Did this command come from God?

2. If so, why don't Christians follow this command?

3. Did Jesus change this law?

4. If so, why?

Jehovah's Witnesses believe that this [Sabbath] law is part of what is often referred to as the Mosaic law code. This refers to a set of laws given only to the nation of Israel and that Christians are not Under this code.


1. Did this command come from God?

Yes, it is one of the "Ten Commandments" spoken, and eventually written by God himself (see Ex 20:8)

2. If so, why don't Christians follow this command?

(see opening paragraph)

3. Did Jesus change this law?

No, he FULFILLED it.

4. If so, why? N/A


Further reading
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2010084

How to you justify it? Even if this applies only to the Jews, how do you justify God commanding we kill someone simply for working on a particular day?

Secondly, if this applies only to Jews, should modern Jews be put to death for working on the Sabbath? There is no mention of Judaism falling away when Jesus came to earth, so if you are of Abraham's seed, you should still abide by this law

[JehovahsWitness]

Even if this applies only to the Jews, how do you justify God commanding we kill someone simply for working on a particular day?

If someone doesn't want to respect the law of the land the live in, they are free to leave but living within a nation's terriotories implies you will comply with the laws of that country or face the consquences. Justification should be demanded from the criminal as to why he broke the law, not the other way round.

Furthermore, the right "to work seven days a week without a break" would be a perverse issue to attempt to promote, even today. That would be paramount to demanding the right to work yourself into the ground like a slave. No one needed at the time, to work seven days a week and no one would starve or die because they took a day off - especially in an agricultural community where their income was dpendent for the most part on the seasons.

Looking at things practically, one could argue that giving workers a day OFF is a very compassionate provision, so if anyone should have a problem with the arrangement, it should be those being denied that right to a day off rather than the other way round.

QUESTION Why was there such a severe penelty for breaking the Sabbath law

As has been stated this law wasn't "cruel" or "unreasonable" because working 7/7 is not a human right, on the contrary modern laws reflect this principle of giving workers time of and make it illegal in many countries to make employees work without time off. That the crime carried the death penelty was reflective of the fact that the legal system was based on spiritual priinciples, principles which not only protected both workers but more importantly protected the religious system which was essential for the nations survival.

Unlike other nations, the Israelites had agreed to theocratic rule ('theocratic' literally mean "rule by God"). God cannot have dealings with that which is unclean, so if He (God) was to continue to protect them (keep them all alive) against surrounding nations, they had to reflect his righteous standards and continue to focus on pure worship. The Sabbath contributed to this end. It meant one day a week was set aside by every Jewish family to be devoted to worship and Learning God's laws. It enabled them to realize that they were dpendent on their Creator. If they failed to do this, they would lose God's favor, and without his protection they would all be conquered by surrounding nations leading to their enslavement and even death.

CONCLUSION: The Sabbath law was ahead of its time in that it protected every laborer from being worked into the ground. More importantly it enabled the nation never to lose sight of the principles that were keeping them alive. Someone that broke that law then was willfully endangering the welfare not only of himself but of the nation itself. Naturally such a treasonous act carried a severe penalty.

Secondly, if this applies only to Jews, should modern Jews be put to death for working on the Sabbath?

No, because Jesus ransom sacrifice fulfilled the entire law. From that moment on the law applied to nobody, neither Jew nor gentile, as God expected everyone to come Under the new CHRISTIAN system.

There is no mention of Judaism falling away when Jesus came to earth, so if you are of Abraham's seed, you should still abide by this law

It didn't happen that way, but it SHOULD have (see John 4:24). We can only pray that those natural descendents of Abraham "get with the program" before it's too late.



Regards

JW

[JLB32168]

1. Did this command come from God? 2. If so, why don't Christians follow this command? 3. Did Jesus change this law? 4. If so, why?

Is it your contention that Christians are bound to follow the minutia of the law from the OT? I think that youd have to prove that first and its going to be hard to do given that Christianity teaches that the OT was the imperfect and incomplete revelation of God to man.
Of course, were allowing the existence of a deity to even ask/answer this question. If one doesnt make that allowance " even if only hypothetically " then further debate is pointless.

[Justin108]

Even if this applies only to the Jews, how do you justify God commanding we kill someone simply for working on a particular day?

If someone doesn't want to respect the law of the land the live in, they are free to leave but living within a nation's terriotories implies you will comply with the laws of that country or face the consquences. Justification should be demanded from the criminal as to why he broke the law, not the other way round.

This is absolutely absurd. This method of reasoning immediately justifies ANY law, no matter how atrocious. Slavery? If you don't want to be a slave, then you shouldn't be in this country. Legal rape? If you don't want to be raped, then you shouldn't live in this country. Death sentence for being gay? If you didn't want to be put to death, you shouldn't have been gay in this country.

To claim that a law needs no justification is one of the most ridiculous things I have EVER heard.

Furthermore, the right "to work seven days a week without a break" would be a perverse issue to attempt to promote, even today. That would be paramount to demanding the right to work yourself into the ground like a slave. No one needed at the time, to work seven days a week and no one would starve or die because they took a day off - especially in an agricultural community where their income was dpendent for the most part on the seasons.

The right to work on the Sabbath is not the same as the right to work every day without a break. And if you really wanted to work non-stop, how is PUTTING THEM TO DEATH justified? Why the hell is hard work being punished by death??

Looking at things practically, one could argue that giving workers a day OFF is a very compassionate provision, so if anyone should have a problem with the arrangement, it should be those being denied that right to a day off rather than the other way round.

To allow a day off is one thing, to kill anyone who does not take a day off is an entirely different matter.

QUESTION Why was there such a severe penelty for breaking the Sabbath law

As has been stated this law wasn't "cruel" or "unreasonable" because working 7/7 is not a human right, on the contrary modern laws reflect this principle of giving workers time of and make it illegal in many countries to make employees work without time off. That the crime carried the death penelty was reflective of the fact that the legal system was based on spiritual priinciples, principles which not only protected both workers but more importantly protected the religious system which was essential for the nations survival.

The flaw in this reasoning is the one forcing labor on the Sabbath is not the one put to death - it is the one choosing to work. In other words, if you work on the Sabbath, your boss is not put to death, instead you are put to death. If the law instead said "you are not to force others to work on the Sabbath" then I see some amount of reasoning, but the fact that a man is not allowed to work on his own land by his own choice and that he is put to death for this is simply insane.

CONCLUSION: The Sabbath law was ahead of its time in that it protected every laborer from being worked into the ground.

"You shall not have your laborer work on the Sabbath, but if you wanted to work on your own land then go ahead" would be far more reasonable.

Secondly, if this applies only to Jews, should modern Jews be put to death for working on the Sabbath?

No, because Jesus ransom sacrifice fulfilled the entire law. From that moment on the law applied to nobody, neither Jew nor gentile, as God expected everyone to come Under the new CHRISTIAN system.

Do you have any scripture to support your claim that the law is to no longer apply after Jesus' coming?

There is no mention of Judaism falling away when Jesus came to earth, so if you are of Abraham's seed, you should still abide by this law

It didn't happen that way, but it SHOULD have (see John 4:24). We can only pray that those natural descendents of Abraham "get with the program" before it's too late.

Just to be clear, are you saying you believe Jews should still be put to death for working on the Sabbath?

[Justin108]

1. Did this command come from God? 2. If so, why don't Christians follow this command? 3. Did Jesus change this law? 4. If so, why?

Is it your contention that Christians are bound to follow the minutia of the law from the OT? I think that youd have to prove that first and its going to be hard to do given that Christianity teaches that the OT was the imperfect and incomplete revelation of God to man.

Excuse me? I have never heard this claim before. Where does Christianity teach that the OT, the supposed word of God himself, is an imperfect and incomplete revelation of God? Are you saying that God did not in fact command the above quoted law? Did God not appear to Moses?


Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

[JehovahsWitness]

Just to be clear, are you saying you believe Jews should still be put to death for working on the Sabbath?

No, that is not what I am saying, my bad, I should have been clearer. I am saying that that particular law and its penalty, is scripturally no longer applicable to anyone, including Modern day Jews.

The law served it purpose and not is null and void.

Hope that's clear now.

JW

[JehovahsWitness]

No, because Jesus ransom sacrifice fulfilled the entire law. From that moment on the law applied to nobody, neither Jew nor gentile, as God expected everyone to come Under the new CHRISTIAN system.

Do you have any scripture to support your claim that the law is to no longer apply after Jesus' coming?

If you read my statement carefully I did not say after Jesus "coming" I said after "Jesus' ransom sacrifice fulfilled the entire law" or more precisely, after the value of that sacrifice was paid, thus fulfilling the entire law. Scriptures below.

ROMANS 10:4
For Christ is the end of the Law - NWT

GALATIANS 3:24
So the Law became our guardian leading to Christ [...] now that the faith has arrived, we are no longer under a guardian. NWT

EPHESIANS 2:15
By means of his flesh he [Jesus] abolished the emnity, the law of commandements consisting in decrees - NWT

He did this by ending the system of law with its commandments and regulations. - NLT

ROMANS 7:6
But now we have been released from the Law [...]

COLOSSIANS 2:14
He [God] erased the handwritten document that consiste of decrees [...] he has taken it out of the way by nailing it to a torture stake. NWT

Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross KJV

Further reading (Sabbath)
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101 ... 860-26:178

[JLB32168]

Excuse me? I have never heard this claim before [that the OT was the imperfect and incomplete revelation of God to man.] Where does Christianity teach that the OT, the supposed word of God himself, is an imperfect and incomplete revelation of God?

Therefore the Law [the OT] has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. I should say that Im using imperfect not in the sense of defective but more like incomplete. Christian theology - or more specifically Eastern Orthodox theology - teaches that the OT points to Christ who is the fullness of Gods revelation to man.

Being our tutor, we are no longer bound by the whole of the law since Christ has died and been Resurrected - accomplishing the entire law (cf. "It is finished"), according to Christian theology.