In Matthew 7:21-23, the Bible claims that Jesus will say to the people in the last day that he 'never knew them' in regards to people who are false followers of Christ.
My question is, how is that so?
According to Christians, Jesus is supposedly God, yet God will not know who he speaks to on the last day?
Psalms is littered with scripture mentioning that God knows all things in man and his heart(Psalm 44:21, 94:11, etc). Even in Luke 12:7, it mentions that God knows the exact number of hairs on all our heads.
So how is it that on the last day God will say he 'never knew you' when it clearly shows that he does?
Perhaps this just proves that Jesus is not God at all? Perhaps Jesus was just a servant sent only as flesh?
Jesus will say, "I never knew you."
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Post #11
So in one verse (Matt 7:21-23), Jesus claims not to know the people talking to him yet in another verse, (John 2:24,25; as you've provided) has Jesus now claiming that he does in fact, indeed know all of the people in the world.tam wrote: This does not mean that Christ is God (YHWH), but here is one such scripture:
But [Jesus] did not entrust Himself to them, for He knew all men. He did not need any testimony about man, for He knew what was in a man. John 2:24, 25
Isn't this a case of deceit? To claim two completely opposite things and claim to be delivering the truth?
Re: Jesus will say, "I never knew you."
Post #12So you claim that it is irrational to be this literal when examining the Bible. So then that would mean you prefer to be a bit more rational instead.Tart wrote:
I think this kind of interpretation, this extreme literalism that is usually applied to find errors in the scripture, is a bit irrational...
We ourselves could witness this kind of language from anyone... My example of the wife saying "i dont even know you anymore", we all know how to interpret that... None of us are thinking to ourselves "wow, what did she have some kind of brain fart? alzheimer's? amnesia?"... No, we would know that this language is representing something else, like an intimate relationship and not of literally "not knowing" who her husband is..
I think this interpretation is a bit irrational.. It is finding flaws in the language of the Bible, we wouldnt apply to other examples (like mine mentioned).
So to be rational is more important than to be correct? That's what I'm getting at here.
Last edited by inthevoid on Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Post #14
Please bring more scripture to support your claim. You've brought one so far that supported mine on this thread.tam wrote: [Replying to post 11 by inthevoid]
There is no deception. There is simply misunderstanding. I stated more about that in my previous post.
Peace again to you!
Also, if you can find that previous post you mention, please provide the link and post #. That would be appreciated.
Last edited by inthevoid on Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Jesus will say, "I never knew you."
Post #15Well, you are claiming this verse literally means Jesus didnt literally know the person...inthevoid wrote:So you claim that it is irrational to be this literal when examining the Bible. So then that would mean you prefer to be a bit more rational instead.Tart wrote:
I think this kind of interpretation, this extreme literalism that is usually applied to find errors in the scripture, is a bit irrational...
We ourselves could witness this kind of language from anyone... My example of the wife saying "i dont even know you anymore", we all know how to interpret that... None of us are thinking to ourselves "wow, what did she have some kind of brain fart? alzheimer's? amnesia?"... No, we would know that this language is representing something else, like an intimate relationship and not of literally "not knowing" who her husband is..
I think this interpretation is a bit irrational.. It is finding flaws in the language of the Bible, we wouldnt apply to other examples (like mine mentioned).
So to be rational is more important than to be correct? That's what I'm getting at here.
Why cant it mean not having an intimate relationship with the person?
Re: Jesus will say, "I never knew you."
Post #16If Jesus is God and cannot lie but speak the truth, why not just say on the last day instead, 'I will no longer know you.' That is more truthful than saying that he 'never knew them', when in fact he (God) did know them.Tart wrote: Well, you are claiming this verse literally means Jesus didnt literally know the person...
Why cant it mean not having an intimate relationship with the person?
So this becomes a blatant lie from Jesus. Thus either he is lying or is not God, for God cannot lie according to scripture.
Last edited by inthevoid on Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Jesus will say, "I never knew you."
Post #17Why cant "i never knew you" mean not having an intimate relationship with the person?inthevoid wrote:If Jesus is God and cannot lie but speak the truth, why not just say on the last day instead, 'I will no longer know you.' That is more truthful than saying that he 'never knew them', when in fact he (God) did know them.Tart wrote: Well, you are claiming this verse literally means Jesus didnt literally know the person...
Why cant it mean not having an intimate relationship with the person?
So this becomes a blatant lie from Jesus. Thus either he is lying or is not God.
Re: Jesus will say, "I never knew you."
Post #18You're bringing in a new argument without using scripture to set up your frame. Please bring scripture to augment this frame you're trying to now build, otherwise this question is irrelevant.Tart wrote:Why cant "i never knew you" mean not having an intimate relationship with the person?inthevoid wrote:If Jesus is God and cannot lie but speak the truth, why not just say on the last day instead, 'I will no longer know you.' That is more truthful than saying that he 'never knew them', when in fact he (God) did know them.Tart wrote: Well, you are claiming this verse literally means Jesus didnt literally know the person...
Why cant it mean not having an intimate relationship with the person?
So this becomes a blatant lie from Jesus. Thus either he is lying or is not God.
Re: Jesus will say, "I never knew you."
Post #19Well that doesnt answer my question, which is unfortunate...inthevoid wrote:You're bringing in a new argument without using scripture to set up your frame. Please bring scripture to augment this frame you're trying to now build, otherwise this question is irrelevant.Tart wrote:Why cant "i never knew you" mean not having an intimate relationship with the person?inthevoid wrote:If Jesus is God and cannot lie but speak the truth, why not just say on the last day instead, 'I will no longer know you.' That is more truthful than saying that he 'never knew them', when in fact he (God) did know them.Tart wrote: Well, you are claiming this verse literally means Jesus didnt literally know the person...
Why cant it mean not having an intimate relationship with the person?
So this becomes a blatant lie from Jesus. Thus either he is lying or is not God.
Lets look the the scripture...
"21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers! [also "workers of iniquity"]’"
If we take your interpretation, and Jesus never knew them, literally, how the heck does Jesus know of their actions at all? How would he even know to reference ANYONE? If he never knew these people, how does he even know they exist?
Becuase we are taking it literal...
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Re: Jesus will say, "I never knew you."
Post #20...or perhaps there are two uses of knowing here: the knowing all about someone as their creator and the knowledge of a love relationship which is echoed in the reference to the sex act as a knowing, especially when it is used as foreknowing: Romans 8:29 For whom HE did foreknow, HE also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of HIS Son. HE obviously knew everyone due to being their creator but only the ones HE foreknew (ie, knew before) are predestined to be conformed to the image of HIS Son.inthevoid wrote: So how is it that on the last day God will say he 'never knew you' when it clearly shows that he does?
Perhaps this just proves that Jesus is not God at all? Perhaps Jesus was just a servant sent only as flesh?
To say HE never knew some people is to say that HE never entered a relationship with them, probably because they refused such a relationship.
PCE Theology as I see it...
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
