How is Christ a second Adam?

[marco]

Humans emerged in the Pleistocene Epoch but creatures resembling us appeared in the previous period. Of the various brutes that grunted and fought we do not know which one was Adam, nor indeed do we know the names of many creatures of that time but by a miracle of recording we are lucky to have Eve, Cain and Abel.


The enormously clever writer Paul compared Christ to Adam and invented a theory of different types of bodies which, as far as I know, has yet to win scientific acceptance. Cardinal Newman, perhaps even cleverer than Paul, wrote a hymn: Praise to the Holiest in which he mentions "a second Adam to the fight and to the rescue came."

Apparently humans had long been distressed and Jesus came to alleviate their misery. It is not clear how he did this, as the world continued as if he had done nothing. Of course people like Paul sowed theological seeds for varieties of belief, but nothing on earth changed because of Jesus. People continued to die.

So in what way was Jesus a second Adam?
Does calling him such make Jesus a myth?

[marco]

[Replying to post 1 by marco]

I suppose Adam was the first named man and Jesus was the first named man-God. Adam was chosen by God to represent folk like Mother Teresa, Francis of Assisi, Mahatma Gandhi and perhaps Leonardo da Vinci and whatever Adam did was attributed to these bad humans. So such people had to be saved from their wicked ways, for Adam showed that man was thoroughly nasty. Jesus came along and refused to steal apples, thus saving the entire human race from the total destruction God had planned in 79AD. Instead he contented himself with killing a few thousand by making Vesuvius erupt. Phew! Lucky us.


But there may be better explanations.

[John Human]

Ancient Demon will speak:

"There was a clear signification. Jesus was the reincarnation of Adam."

Ancient Demon: http://earthwarning.org/index.php/here-be-demons/

For a discussion of orthodox Jewish belief in reincarnation through the millenia, including the Gospel account of Jesus identifying John the Baptist as the reincarnation of the prophet Elijah, see this thread:
"Did Jesus and his followers believe in reincarnation?" at
viewtopic.php?t=35420&start=10

[marco]

Ancient Demon will speak:

"There was a clear signification. Jesus was the reincarnation of Adam."

I assume I am in conversation with another human poster. I have no idea as to why a future tense precedes the quoted words. Have we to wait a few days before he says this?


I guess you think the preacher of the first century was a re-make of the primal specimen of man. Surely his facial features would have given rise to some comment. One might say with equal justification that Constantine the Great was the reincarnation of Christ. It would be fascinating to have your own views on how and why all this is remotely so.

[John Human]

Ancient Demon will speak:

"There was a clear signification. Jesus was the reincarnation of Adam."

I assume I am in conversation with another human poster. I have no idea as to why a future tense precedes the quoted words. Have we to wait a few days before he says this?

I typed "Ancient Demon will speak," using the future tense, because Ancient Demon had not yet spoken. Then, after I typed that phrase, Ancient Demon spoke, and I typed word-for-word as it spoke.

JSS

p.s. The proper pronoun for a demon is not "he," but rather "it."

[marco]

I typed "Ancient Demon will speak," using the future tense, because Ancient Demon had not yet spoken. Then, after I typed that phrase, Ancient Demon spoke, and I typed word-for-word as it spoke.


p.s. The proper pronoun for a demon is not "he," but rather "it."

One lives and learns. Man is a wonderful work of art, the receptacle of beliefs that might stun the angels of the universe. I assume it is through demonology that we have acquired at least half of Adam's name. We don't know if he was Adam Smith. But then do we know Christ's proper name? Is this another mystic link between them?

I see my calculus friend, Leibniz, is a source of inspiration. Good choice.

[dio9]

[Replying to marco]

Jesus wasq a special person in God's providence. As 2nd Adam he had a ore difficult job. Not only not to eat the forbidden fruit but to eat the fruit of the tree of life . Jesus was a new beginning , a restored Adam rather than simply a last Adam. Jesus was a life giving Adam. (1Cor. 15:45) Paul compared Jesus to Adam from Romans 5: 12 to 1 Cor. 15:45.
Jesus brought the spiritual life lost back to humanity. For Adam there was no history of alienation to pass through, no brutal Roman empire to confront . All Adam had to do was not break a single commandment. Jesus had to pass through a history of broken commandments, to get to the position of the original Adam. Paul saw Jesus as not only the last Adam but as a restoration the original image of God. Jesus was not just Adam but much greater than Adam for all he had to overcome. Unfortunately as Schweitzer concluded in his search for the historic Jesus Jesus was broken by the wheel of history . And Schweitzer went off to Africa to doctor the poor. Christ was greater than Adam . Adam could never have imagined the one to come. Jesus was actually not like Adam, he never broke the commandment , finally in the face of death , he held to it saying not my will but thine.

[marco]

Jesus was a new beginning , a restored Adam rather than simply a last Adam. Jesus was a life giving Adam.

The tale of Adam is about the beginnings of MAN. The tale of Jesus is about happenings in Judaea, while the vast Roman Empire, the then world, got on with its business. Jesus worked irrelevantly and was swatted down, like a fly, for presumption. His apotheosis is attributable to arrogant Paul and other dreamers and theorists. If one means by "new beginning" that Jesus started a big movement, then Muhammad was another Adam.

Jesus had to pass through a history of broken commandments, to get to the position of the original Adam.

I doubt if Jesus knew much about history. He was a local lad, well versed in his local customs. It seems an absurdity to compare him with some Neanderthal.

Paul saw Jesus as not only the last Adam but as a restoration the original image of God.

And Paul saw himself as a man who was knocked off his horse by heaven. We could with total justification start the story of Adam or Jesus with the lines: "Once upon a time..." That says it all.

[dio9]

[Replying to post 8 by marco]

Well Adam broke the commandment while living in paradise, Jesus however kept the commandment while living under the oppressive Roman occupation of the metaphorical garden.Somehow The descendants of Abraham Issac and Jacob produced the person of Jesus. equal to and greater than Adam. Jesus was actually a spiritually successful Adam.
The son of God was never meant to live under brutal Roman oppression.

By the way check the story of Paul's epiphany , he wasn't riding a horse didn't have one.

[marco]

[Replying to post 8 by marco]

Well Adam broke the commandment while living in paradise, Jesus however kept the commandment while living under the oppressive Roman occupation of the metaphorical garden.Somehow The descendants of Abraham Issac and Jacob produced the person of Jesus. equal to and greater than Adam. Jesus was actually a spiritually successful Adam.
The son of God was never meant to live under brutal Roman oppression.

By the way check the story of Paul's epiphany , he wasn't riding a horse didn't have one.

A hundred mile journey is a fair distance to go on foot. One can reasonably suppose that the Roman citizen, Paul, was conveyed on some beast. The less reasonable conclusion would be to suppose he was hiking.

We must remember that human beings did not start off living in luxury; the Genesis tale is fictional, poetic, metaphorical. The hide-and-seek passage with God and naked Adam borders on silliness.

Incidentally the "brutal" Romans civilised the world; they built a fantastic system of communication that would be envied today. Their great harbour was a work of superb engineering. We in Britain were snatched from our druidic prayers to gaze on big cities, courtesy of Rome. If you behaved, you got on well. They punished harsh governors like Verres for being brutal. But yes, Rome had its bad emperors too and Christianity had its bad popes.