Gods and Demons interchangeable?

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Diagoras
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Re: Gods and Demons interchangeable?

Post #11

Post by Diagoras »

Elijah John wrote:God= benevolence. Demons=malevolence. The stories which seem to conflate the two are dubious.
If there’s an example of such a story that you have in mind, that might help to clarify.

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Re: Gods and Demons interchangeable?

Post #12

Post by Elijah John »

Diagoras wrote:
Elijah John wrote:God= benevolence. Demons=malevolence. The stories which seem to conflate the two are dubious.
If there’s an example of such a story that you have in mind, that might help to clarify.
The flood story. Mass slaughter attributed to God was something he almost certainly didn't do. Never happened.

The binding of Isaac. Supposedly at the orders of God. But that order would be a temptation to sin. (human sacrifice is sin) James says it's never God who tempts one to sin. The barbaric idea probably came from the mind of Abraham himself, who recently emerged from a pagan culture. That is, if the incident ever happened.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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Re: Gods and Demons interchangeable?

Post #13

Post by Zzyzx »

.
Elijah John wrote:
Zzyzx wrote: If Benevolent (marked by or disposed to doing good), it is from God.

If the directions include killing and destroying (malevolence) it is from a demon. Right?

Malevolent: wishing evil or harm to another or others; showing ill will; ill-disposed; malicious: evil; harmful; injurious: a malevolent inclination to destroy the happiness of others. https://www.dictionary.com
Yes, and there is plenty of benevolence in the Bible, and taught therein.
Agreed. There is at least some benevolence. Is that from God?

There is also at least some malevolence. Must that be from demons?
Elijah John wrote: But it's detractors either downplay those passages, or ignore them completely and instead,
Does what 'detractors' do or say determine if gods and demons are interchangeable? If not, what does it matter what they say or do? Is the Bible immune from critical examination and/or accountability?

Could it be that tales of atrocities are more prevalent / numerous / prominent in the Bible than tales of benevolence?

Does the Bible contain malevolent tales attributed to God? If so, how are God atrocities different from demon atrocities?
Elijah John wrote: focus on the absurdity and atrocities that also (admittedly) exist within it's pages.
Are said atrocities from God? From demons?
.
Non-Theist

If you stop claiming knowledge of invisible, undetectable unicorns, I will stop challenging your claim. Same goes for gods

ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence

For a quick tutorial on science vs. religion, compare modern internet weather radar to ancient religious beliefs and superstitions about weather

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Post #14

Post by William »

William: Angels and demons are metaphors for Human ideas of good and evil and exist as entities through the creative powers of Human belief systems and accompanying energy and activity in relation to seeing and responding to their experience, through filters of duality.

That there is one called 'Satan' who is 'The Accuser' associated with the Abrahamic idea of God, tends to point at apparent self doubt that story of the God has, and if so - can be considered to be a creation of said God, brought about through the Self Doubt - perhaps also brought to heel through the Creator Entity learning not to doubt The Self, if indeed YHVH is "The Father" which Jesus spoke of as being His Creator.

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Willum
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Re: Gods and Demons interchangeable?

Post #15

Post by Willum »

Elijah John wrote: [Replying to post 7 by Tcg]

God= benevolence. Demons=malevolence. The stories which seem to conflate the two are dubious.
I get it, when God commands the genocide of people it is a good thing.
When Satan gives you knowledge of good and evil, it is a bad thing.

So like when Moses killed the Amorites, or Hitler killed the Jews, in God's name, that was fine.
After all, God has allowed Jews to be killed many times according to their history - Babylon, Egypt, the Diaspora, and then Germany must just be a modern example of this.

Although I can see your reasoning, I still disagree. Of course, I disagree, or would disagree, with the Jews for claiming God was right in punishing by having them killed and enslaved. But, who am I to argue?
God, in my opinion, no matter how powerful, is only another point of morality, and that he commands his followers to exterminate others makes no moral or logical sense.
Folks, from God's point of view, should always be more valuable alive.
Unless he is a terrible manager.

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SallyF
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Post #16

Post by SallyF »

Image

Well Christians, your own Bibles tell us that at least one of your versions of "God" is the source of evil …!

The "Lord" here is the newcomer deity, the mythological, genocidal Jehovah.

This nasty figment of Judean human imagination is both god and demon.

We may thank God that it's only and imaginary being and not real.
"God" … just whatever humans imagine it to be.

"Scripture" … just whatever humans write it to be.

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William
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Post #17

Post by William »

William: It is plausible that the problem really isn't with whether people believe their existence is the product of a Creator or a mindless act of chance, as it is with the fact that by and large everyone has learned to think through the lens of Duality, and that learning happens primarily through being taught to think in terms of duality by those who have already being taught to think that way, and that the thinking is purely Human in nature, but is it the truest way we can think? Is it the only way possible to think?

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Post #18

Post by 1213 »

SallyF wrote: …
Well Christians, your own Bibles tell us that at least one of your versions of "God" is the source of evil …!
….
I think in this case it would be good to understand what evil is. Evil is like darkness or emptiness, it is nothing really, it is lack of good. God “creates� evil by allowing people to reject Him and be without Him and so without good. Evil is only possible when God (good) is not present, similarly as darkness is only possible when light is not present. And as I hope everyone understands, God doesn’t do anything evil. Giving freedom to reject God is not evil.

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Post #19

Post by Willum »

[Replying to post 18 by 1213]

No, no, no.
You don’t get to tell us what evil is.
Christians, Christianity and so on have a terrible track record for saying whatever the atrocity du jour is, is your God’s not-evil will.

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SallyF
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Post #20

Post by SallyF »

1213 wrote:
SallyF wrote: …
Well Christians, your own Bibles tell us that at least one of your versions of "God" is the source of evil …!
….
I think in this case it would be good to understand what evil is. Evil is like darkness or emptiness, it is nothing really, it is lack of good. God “creates� evil by allowing people to reject Him and be without Him and so without good. Evil is only possible when God (good) is not present, similarly as darkness is only possible when light is not present. And as I hope everyone understands, God doesn’t do anything evil. Giving freedom to reject God is not evil.

Image

When brainwashing Christian kiddies with blandishment and bull***t, one can turn the (mythological) global genocide by the (mythological) Genocidal Jehovah into an "adventure".

This make-believe monster in the sky is written of as DOING more evil than Hitler.
"God" … just whatever humans imagine it to be.

"Scripture" … just whatever humans write it to be.

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