Why don't religious people just go to heaven?

[Compassionist]

Billions of people on Earth believe that when the die they will go to heaven. Why don't they just kill themselves and go to heaven? My brother died at the age of 8 days because the doctor made mistakes. My parents told me that my brother went to heaven to live there in happiness for ever and ever. I asked them, "Why don't we all die and join him in heaven?" They said that it was forbidden to commit suicide. Makes me think that there really isn't any heaven after death. Why bother with life before death when life after death is promised to be infinitely better?

[Tcg]

To me it sounds weird if some people are not able to handle their feelings and focus. But, it may be that without God I would be in similar situation.

Unfortunately, belief in God is not a cure for mental health issues. Having worked in the mental health services field for a number of years, I can assure you that some theists, including Christians, struggle with mental health issues, Bipolar Affective Disorder included.

This disorder is much more complex than a failure to handle one's feelings or an inability to focus. Sometimes those who have not dealt with mental health issues don't understand that in most cases, there are no easy fixes. Oversimplifying the depth of struggle these issues can bring does a great disservice to all who suffer from them and can lead to unfair stigmatization.


Tcg

[Compassionist]

I wish you a fulfilling life.

You too and I didn't mean to offend. I was just pointing out in view of the evidence your optimism seems unfounded to me, laughable even pathetic (I'm not calling YOU pathetic or laughable, I'm saying the idea, the notion is so removed from our present day reality *it* (not you) appears laughable and pathetic.

I cannot put it any better than the following posters did (talking on entirely different topics but if I may borrow their words)... I have to wonder if those that think that humanity will break the trend and pull itself up by its own bootstraps despite all evidence to the contrary are simply using a psychological crutch" " because they are fearful of reality.

NOTE I am making a general statement I am not talking about you. I am talking about some people I have spoken to (not on this forum).

As our dear Marcos might say ....

I was trying to inject some reality into the world you have conjured up.

Peace,


JW



ps I withdraw my reference to cloud cuckoo land and while I await SallyF to provide me with a meme that will speak the thousand words I am not eloquent enough to say will just say...

To be fair some absurdity exists if we're fortunate enough to be travelling at the speed of light and get a boost.

[strike]cloud cuckoo land[/strike]... believe evident absurdities.

... simply a psychological crutch for people who are more fearful of death.

I was trying to inject some reality into the world you have conjured up.

I was not offended. Please don't worry about that. Only suffering, unfairness and deaths are guaranteed for sentient biological organisms. While humans have improved their longevity, standard of living and quality of life through science and technology, these don't guarantee freedom from all suffering, unfairness and deaths. I am not relying on humans to fix all problems. I expect that every sentient organism will suffer and die. Such is the reality we live in. I would love to go back in time and prevent all suffering, unfairness and deaths but I can't despite my best intentions and efforts. It makes me so sad.

[Compassionist]

…Our choices are determined by the dynamic interaction of genes, environments, nutrients and experiences. If you were my friend, you would have had her genes, environments, nutrients and experiences and consequently, you would have made her choices. We are not free from causality. We are the products of causality. Our choices are not made free from the determining effects of our genes, environments, nutrients and experiences.

Sorry, I don’t believe that.

There are many benefits to committing suicide. For example, I am a regular blood donor and I have been on the organ donor register of the British NHS since May 1997. If I were to commit suicide now, my organs could save many lives. Also, my death would end my suffering - I have experienced and continue to experience many health problems and injuries since I was conceived without my consent into this horrific reality full of suffering, unfairness and deaths. The only reason I have not yet committed suicide is that I have a duty of care towards my parents, my sons, my wife, my dog and all the living things I help through my work, volunteering and donations. If I were to commit suicide or die of another cause, these good deeds will need to be done by others or they will no longer be done and the beneficiaries of all my good deeds will suffer.

But if life is painful, why donate blood and organs, so that others would also suffer longer?

But, I am sorry to hear that you are suffering. I hope you could move your focus on nicer things.

If you were my friend, you would have Bipolar Affective Disorder like her and you would have mood swings along the mood scale below:

To me it sounds weird if some people are not able to handle their feelings and focus. But, it may be that without God I would be in similar situation.

Causality is not a matter of faith. It is an evidence-based conclusion that our choices are determined by our genes, environments, nutrients and experiences. If I or you had the genes, environments, nutrients and experiences of an eagle, we would be able to fly like an eagle. If you or I had the genes, environments, nutrients and experiences of a dolphin, we would be able to sleep with half of our brain at a time.

If you truly have free will, please start fluently speaking, reading and writing in all of the 6,500 languages on Earth from right now without having to learn them. Also, use your free will to go back in time and prevent all suffering, unfairness and deaths. I bet you can't do these things. You can't because you are not free. You are a prisoner of causality who has suffered, will suffer more and will experience more unfairness and will die. Your belief in a God is not going to protect you from suffering, unfairness and deaths. I can't do these things either despite my best intentions. It's because I am not free either. Like you, I am a prisoner of causality. All living things come into being without their consent and are subject to suffering, unfairness and death.

I save lives because I, like other living things, prefer life and happiness over suffering and deaths. Life would be awesome if there were no suffering, unfairness and deaths. These things ruin what could be an amazing experience. I feel so much grief about all the suffering, unfairness and deaths. I wish I could go back in time and prevent all suffering, unfairness and deaths but I can't. So, I do what I can to save lives, compensate for unfairness and relieve suffering. If I were all-knowing and all-powerful, no one would ever experience suffering, unfairness and death. With omniscience and omnipotence comes omniculpability. So, if your God exists and is omniscient and omnipotent then God is also omniculpable.


“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?�

― Epicurus

You clearly have no experience of Bipolar Affective Disorder. There is no substitute for actual experience. You are failing to empathise because it is outside the zone of your experiences so far. If I had told you that my friend experienced hunger then you would have no difficulty empathising with that because you, too, have experienced hunger. Since you clearly have not experienced Bipolar Affective Disorder, you are failing to empathise. It is not your fault. I am not blaming you. You are a prisoner of causality who lacks free will - as do all living things. We are all doomed to live inevitable lives by making inevitable choices and we are all doomed to suffer and die. Please see https://www.evilbible.com and http://skepticsannotatedbible.com if you care about truth and ethics. Thank you.

[Aetixintro]

[Replying to post 10 by Compassionist]

FYI, OR gate testing / Question of Truth app should give you answers to some or all the big questions nowadays!

These times are marvelous, but also severe and difficult.

[1213]

…This disorder is much more complex than a failure to handle one's feelings or an inability to focus. Sometimes those who have not dealt with mental health issues don't understand that in most cases, there are no easy fixes. Oversimplifying the depth of struggle these issues can bring does a great disservice to all who suffer from them and can lead to unfair stigmatization….

And I think those issues are made over complicated. But, this is difficult subject, because it is difficult to read other people’s minds.

[1213]

….If you truly have free will, please start fluently speaking, reading and writing in all of the 6,500 languages on Earth from right now without having to learn them. Also, use your free will to go back in time and prevent all suffering, unfairness and deaths. I bet you can't do these things.

Free will is not same as being omnipotent and all powerful. Free will means only that I can want freely what ever I want.

…If I were all-knowing and all-powerful, no one would ever experience suffering, unfairness and death…

Even if they would want to know evil?

In Biblical point of view, we are experiencing evil in this first death, because people wanted to know evil like God. This is a lesson about good and evil, not the true life without suffering and pain. You could compare this to Matrix (in the movie Matrix). We are here to experience things and body is only like a vessel for souls to experience things. Body is not the important thing, it can be replaced, but souls is and nothing of this world can destroy a soul. That is why it is said:

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt. 10:28

"Therefore I tell you, don't be anxious for your life, what you will eat, nor yet for your body, what you will wear. Life is more than food, and the body is more than clothing. Consider the ravens: they don't sow, they don't reap, they have no warehouse or barn, and God feeds them. How much more valuable are you than birds! Which of you by being anxious can add a cubit to his height? If then you aren't able to do even the least things, why are you anxious about the rest? Consider the lilies, how they grow. They don't toil, neither do they spin; yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. But if this is how God clothes the grass in the field, which today exists, and tomorrow is cast into the oven, how much more will he clothe you, O you of little faith? Don't seek what you will eat or what you will drink; neither be anxious. For the nations of the world seek after all of these things, but your Father knows that you need these things. But seek God's Kingdom, and all these things will be added to you.
Luke 12:22-31

So, evil, which is only lack of good, like emptiness, is not a problem.

[Tcg]

…This disorder is much more complex than a failure to handle one's feelings or an inability to focus. Sometimes those who have not dealt with mental health issues don't understand that in most cases, there are no easy fixes. Oversimplifying the depth of struggle these issues can bring does a great disservice to all who suffer from them and can lead to unfair stigmatization….

And I think those issues are made over complicated. But, this is difficult subject, because it is difficult to read other people’s minds.

What experience and or facts has lead you to this conclusion?

It's not difficult to talk to people experiencing these struggles, nor is it difficult to recognize that they are not the result of a flaw in their character.


Tcg

[1213]

And I think those issues are made over complicated. But, this is difficult subject, because it is difficult to read other people’s minds.

What experience and or facts has lead you to this conclusion?

It's not difficult to talk to people experiencing these struggles, nor is it difficult to recognize that they are not the result of a flaw in their character.

Yes, I didn’t claim it is difficult to talk to people. I wouldn’t say someone has flawed character, even if he thinks differently.

But, this is interesting subject. I am sure that it is possible to overcome those mind problems with help of Jesus. It is possible to get rid of “demons� just by the power of Jesus, if person would really want so.

[Tcg]

I am sure that it is possible to overcome those mind problems with help of Jesus. It is possible to get rid of “demons� just by the power of Jesus, if person would really want so.

Which specific mental health issues are you referring to? Which ones have you seen resolved in their totality simply by the power of Jesus?

Tcg