Another fanciful tale

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Zzyzx
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Another fanciful tale

Post #1

Post by Zzyzx »

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Here is another fanciful tale about the sun that was not reported by anyone other than Bible writers:
Joshua 10:12 On the day the Lord gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the Lord in the presence of Israel: “Sun, stand still over Gibeon, and you, moon, over the Valley of Aijalon.� 13 So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, till the nation avenged itself on its enemies,as it is written in the Book of Jashar. The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day. 14 There has never been a day like it before or since, a day when the Lord listened to a human being. Surely the Lord was fighting for Israel!
Most glaring defects:

1. Physical impossibility of Earth stopping rotation then starting again AND rotation is 1000 miles per hour at the equator. Atmosphere and oceans would not stop with the solid Earth – thus, winds of hundreds of miles per hour and oceans sloshing over coastal areas.

2. No astronomers or observers worldwide noticed or recorded that remarkable event they could not have missed.

Of course, whoever wrote Joshua may not have had a way of knowing that the Earth orbits the Sun, not vice versa – thus making the tale impossible. Modern people, however, should recognize it as fantasy.

WHY would any informed, educated person accept as true a tale of the sun and moon stopping / standing still (or a star doing so in the nativity tale) -- as anything other than fantasy? Do they not know that Earth rotation causes the appearance of sun, moon and stars moon movement / rising and setting?

WHY give any credibility to a source that presents that tale as true?
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If you stop claiming knowledge of invisible, undetectable unicorns, I will stop challenging your claim. Same goes for gods

ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence

For a quick tutorial on science vs. religion, compare modern internet weather radar to ancient religious beliefs and superstitions about weather

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Re: Another fanciful tale

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Post by 1213 »

Zzyzx wrote: …WHY would any informed, educated person accept as true a tale of the sun and moon stopping / standing still (or a star doing so in the nativity tale) -- as anything other than fantasy? Do they not know that Earth rotation causes the appearance of sun, moon and stars moon movement / rising and setting?

WHY give any credibility to a source that presents that tale as true?
I have now two options, to believe what Bible tells, or believe what you claim. I rather choose Bible. It is more credible to me than scientists who have shown to be wrong many times in history.

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Re: Another fanciful tale

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Post by Zzyzx »

1213 wrote:
Zzyzx wrote: …WHY would any informed, educated person accept as true a tale of the sun and moon stopping / standing still (or a star doing so in the nativity tale) -- as anything other than fantasy? Do they not know that Earth rotation causes the appearance of sun, moon and stars moon movement / rising and setting?

WHY give any credibility to a source that presents that tale as true?
I have now two options, to believe what Bible tells, or believe what you claim. I rather choose Bible. It is more credible to me than scientists who have shown to be wrong many times in history.
You are certainly entitled to believe that the Earth stopped rotating and that 'the scientists' who say it did not are wrong.

Readers are entitled to decide for themselves which is more credible.

When scientists make mistakes, those are found (and corrected) by scientists, not theologians.

I trust that readers enjoy the dispute between religion vs. science -- or between attempted defense of ancient tales vs. presentation of verifiable information about the real world.

Note: The Earth rotates
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If you stop claiming knowledge of invisible, undetectable unicorns, I will stop challenging your claim. Same goes for gods

ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence

For a quick tutorial on science vs. religion, compare modern internet weather radar to ancient religious beliefs and superstitions about weather

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Re: Another fanciful tale

Post #4

Post by 1213 »

Zzyzx wrote: …Note: The Earth rotates
The problem with that is, no one is able to really prove that.

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Re: Another fanciful tale

Post #5

Post by Zzyzx »

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1213 wrote:
Zzyzx wrote: …Note: The Earth rotates
The problem with that is, no one is able to really prove that.
Perhaps rotation cannot be 'proved' to the willfully ignorant. However, supporting evidence is overwhelming -- as a Google search will demonstrate to anyone sincerely interested.

Additional information: The Earth is spherical (oblate spheroid or ellipsoid of revolution). This may be difficult for some to grasp. The Earth also it revolves around the Sun (actually a helical path as the solar system moves through space).

It seems a bit ironic that many who ask for proof of rotation and revolution do not demand proof (or even verifiable evidence) that virgins were impregnated by supernatural 'spirits', donkeys and snakes conversed in human language, the Earth was flooded 'to the tops of mountains', and long-dead bodies came back to life.
.
Non-Theist

If you stop claiming knowledge of invisible, undetectable unicorns, I will stop challenging your claim. Same goes for gods

ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence

For a quick tutorial on science vs. religion, compare modern internet weather radar to ancient religious beliefs and superstitions about weather

"Demand money with the threat of violence and you'll get arrested. Do it with the threat of eternal damnation and it's tax deductible"

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Re: Another fanciful tale

Post #6

Post by brunumb »

1213 wrote:
Zzyzx wrote: …Note: The Earth rotates
The problem with that is, no one is able to really prove that.
That is a rather curious statement 1213. Are you suggesting that Earth does not rotate and that there is an alternative mechanism by which the Sun and Moon could be made to stand still in the sky? Please make your case.
Christianty: 2000 years of making it up as you go along.

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Re: Another fanciful tale

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Post by marco »

1213 wrote:

I have now two options, to believe what Bible tells, or believe what you claim. I rather choose Bible. It is more credible to me than scientists who have shown to be wrong many times in history.

Science develops along lines of reason. As a student I learned of the Coriolis effect on the Earth's rotation and, amazingly, I was able to use this in mathematical equations. Verification through observation is a good measure of proof. It is odd that you would desert this system for Biblical nonsense just because somebody has scribbled "God" on the cover of that book. Do we recognise the signature with the assurance that we recognise mathematical calculations.

Yes, science gets things wrong and adjusts to new truths whereas bible readers get things wrong and continue to do so.

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Re: Another fanciful tale

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Post by 1213 »

Zzyzx wrote: …It seems a bit ironic that many who ask for proof of rotation and revolution do not demand proof (or even verifiable evidence) that virgins were impregnated by supernatural 'spirits', donkeys and snakes conversed in human language, the Earth was flooded 'to the tops of mountains', and long-dead bodies came back to life.
I think we have evidence for the flood, for example marine fossils on high mountains. But the other things, historical matters are probably impossible always to prove, they remain matters of belief anyway.

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Re: Another fanciful tale

Post #9

Post by 1213 »

brunumb wrote:
1213 wrote:
Zzyzx wrote: …Note: The Earth rotates
The problem with that is, no one is able to really prove that.
That is a rather curious statement 1213. Are you suggesting that Earth does not rotate and that there is an alternative mechanism by which the Sun and Moon could be made to stand still in the sky? Please make your case.
Why would you think I am suggesting something else than what I said?

Because it can’t be proven that earth rotates, I think it is possible earth is not rotating and it is for example sun and moon that rotate around earth, or something else that seems to us that there is rotation.

If sun rotates around earth, reasons what could possible cause sun to stood still are for example:
1. Earth begins to rotate so that it counters the movement of sun. Possible reason for example a hit by asteroid or “planet X� and its gravitational force.
2. Sun stops to move for example because of gravitational force of “planet X�.

I know that I can’t prove what could cause it and it is possible that these explanations are not correct. However, if I couldn’t now give other explanation, it does not mean there can’t be other explanation. I hope people don’t limit possibilities by what I can think.

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Re: Another fanciful tale

Post #10

Post by 1213 »

marco wrote: … As a student I learned of the Coriolis effect on the Earth's rotation and, amazingly, I was able to use this in mathematical equations. Verification through observation is a good measure of proof. ….
I think that is a confirmation bias. “Coriolis effect� does not prove earth rotates, because it can also be explained by sun and moons gravitational pull. After all, we already believe that tide is caused by the gravitational forces, so could easily also explain the Coriolis effect. Luckily for your beliefs, the calculations you have done, don’t really depend on what is the real cause of the effect.

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