Where do souls come from?

[nobspeople]

Recently heard someone tell their story about their dad. Her dad was going to die before his first grandchild was born. He was sad. His daughter told him that, if he dies before the grandchild is born, to 'go visit him in heaven' before the child is born.

It made me wonder: where do souls come from? Are all souls 'shelved' in heaven somewhere, just waiting for their vessel? Or are they each created at the moment of conception?

Provide proof that made you form your opinion.

[TRANSPONDER]

And no 'proof' from the 'weighing of the soul' experiment. That was debunked, but we still (like Nebraska man) sometimes get it trotted out as 'evidence'.

The soul is a common human belief. I think it is instinctive. always find myself thinking of the Egyptian Ba, or it may be 'ka' - the spirit representing the life -force of the person in the form of a bird. It's perhaps understandable that a person full of animation and character suddenly becomes passive and weak and the Life 'leaves them'. It's understandable that this character of Life could be seen as a separate entity like the character of the person that leaves them and goes somewhere, either floating about the world or going to some other one we can't see.

Yes, I see this as an instinct and observation based common human belief, but one for which there is no valid basis. Over to you, believers, to provide a valid basis.

[William]

[Replying to nobspeople in post #1]

From what I have gathered, a soul appears to be some kind of storage device which contains the personality which makes up the greater percentage of an individuals persona and the general information of an individuals detailed life-experience.

It is not something which a person has so much as something that a person is connected with - the storage taking place outside of the persons biological form - so is not stored in the brain like memories are thought to be - the brain acts as some kind of interface and mind is produced in the individual which is connected to the mind behind the *creation the individual is participating in [*usually referred to as 'experiencing reality'.]

[Purple Knight]

Recently heard someone tell their story about their dad. Her dad was going to die before his first grandchild was born. He was sad. His daughter told him that, if he dies before the grandchild is born, to 'go visit him in heaven' before the child is born.

It made me wonder: where do souls come from? Are all souls 'shelved' in heaven somewhere, just waiting for their vessel?

I've always thought that this is the canon, yes, and that every possible soul exists. This is the result of me doing some thinking about why God creates so many evil people. I don't think he does. I think they have always been there, as potential, and that only by allowing each and every one of them to experience life can they be fairly sorted.

In other words, the physical universe is one big "good engine" designed to purge the greater potential existence of anything evil. All potentials are fed through the physical universe and then the bad eggs get kicked out of physical existence and tossed into the cosmic rubbish bin. This not only answers the problem of evil (that it exists as potential and nobody, even the omnipotent, can do anything about that except for exactly what it is doing about that), but it also answers the problems of Hell (that potential has to go somewhere) and of suffering (we're in a sorting engine).

[bjs1]

[Replying to nobspeople in post #1]

There is, as far as I am aware, nothing in Christian scripture or doctrine that directly addresses this idea. I, personally, think that this woman was speaking from grief and not sound doctrine. I think that we can have some compassion on her and, while I don’t think her deceased father could “visit” her unborn child, I would not correct her on the issue. Having such a joyful moment marred by such a painful reality is difficult. Grief expresses itself in a lot of different ways.

[JoeyKnothead]

Recently heard someone tell their story about their dad. Her dad was going to die before his first grandchild was born. He was sad. His daughter told him that, if he dies before the grandchild is born, to 'go visit him in heaven' before the child is born.

It made me wonder: where do souls come from?

The minds of humans.

Are all souls 'shelved' in heaven somewhere, just waiting for their vessel?

None'll show such to be the case.

Or are they each created at the moment of conception?

Supporting data for such a conclusion is as lacking as it is for that whole resurrection deal.

Provide proof that made you form your opinion.

Available data shows, beyond reasonable doubt, that the notion of souls is a purely human construct, devoid of confirmable evidence beyond it that bit there.

[JehovahsWitness]

It made me wonder: where do souls come from?

Provide proof that made you form your opinion.

In my opinion souls* come from their parents; ie. They come into existence at the moment of conception.

"Human development begins after the union of male and female gametes or germ cells during a process known as fertilization (conception). "Fertilization is a sequence of events that begins with the contact of a sperm (spermatozoon) with a secondary oocyte (ovum) and ends with the fusion of their pronuclei (the haploid nuclei of the sperm and ovum) and the mingling of their chromosomes to form a new cell. This fertilized ovum, known as a zygote, is a large diploid cell that is the beginning, or primordium, of a human being." - Moore, Keith L. Essentials of Human Embryology. Toronto: B.C. Decker Inc, 1988, p.2

* a soul being a flesh and blood physical person or animal




JW




RELATED POSTS


When does life begin?
viewtopic.php?p=904476#p904476

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

SOULS, SPIRIT and ... THE CONDITION OF THE DEAD

[Miles]

It made me wonder: where do souls come from?

Provide proof that made you form your opinion.

In my opinion souls* come from their parents; ie. They come into existence at the moment of conception.

"Human development begins after the union of male and female gametes or germ cells during a process known as fertilization (conception). "Fertilization is a sequence of events that begins with the contact of a sperm (spermatozoon) with a secondary oocyte (ovum) and ends with the fusion of their pronuclei (the haploid nuclei of the sperm and ovum) and the mingling of their chromosomes to form a new cell. This fertilized ovum, known as a zygote, is a large diploid cell that is the beginning, or primordium, of a human being." - Moore, Keith L. Essentials of Human Embryology. Toronto: B.C. Decker Inc, 1988, p.2

Then obviously you believe a zygote

...............................

has a soul. But why? I ask because god has seen fit to make sure that less than half of them survive.

"During the first week after conception, the zygote divides and multiplies, going from a one-cell structure to two cells, then four cells, then eight cells, and so on. The process of cell division is called mitosis. After the fourth division, differentiation of the cells begins to occur as well. Differentiated cells become more specialized, forming different organs and body parts. After 5 days of mitosis, there are 100 cells, and after 9 months there are billions of cells. Mitosis is a fragile process, and fewer than one-half of all zygotes survive beyond the first two weeks "
source

And, of course, fewer developing zygotes ever make it to birth. and of those that do,

"Approximately 1 million children die each year due to complications of preterm birth."
source

Then there are all the miscarriages:

"many estimate that approximately 1 in 4 pregnancies end in miscarriage; and some estimates are as high as 1 in 3."
source

So it would seem god doesn't put much value in zygote souls at all. Which raises the question: why bother investing them with souls in the first place?



.

[JehovahsWitness]

In my opinion souls* come from their parents; ie. They come into existence at the moment of conception.

"Human development begins after the union of male and female gametes or germ cells during a process known as fertilization (conception). "Fertilization is a sequence of events that begins with the contact of a sperm (spermatozoon) with a secondary oocyte (ovum) and ends with the fusion of their pronuclei (the haploid nuclei of the sperm and ovum) and the mingling of their chromosomes to form a new cell. This fertilized ovum, known as a zygote, is a large diploid cell that is the beginning, or primordium, of a human being." - Moore, Keith L. Essentials of Human Embryology. Toronto: B.C. Decker Inc, 1988, p.2

* a soul being a flesh and blood physical person or animal

Then obviously you believe a zygote

...............................

has a soul.

No I do not. You are wrong about what I believe.



JEHOVAH WITNESS



RELATED POSTS


What is a SOUL?
viewtopic.php?p=1015447#p1015447

[William]

Where do souls come from?

In my opinion souls* come from their parents; ie. They come into existence at the moment of conception.

Then obviously you believe a zygote has a soul.

No I do not. You are wrong about what I believe.

I got the same impression that this is what you were saying you believed.