A popular thread here is, if the resurrection is if it's fact or faith based. A lot of thinking and word play has gone into several dozen pages trying to prove it's factual (BTWs...it's not factual, just in case you're wonderin').
There's been a lot of mental gymnastics done trying to prove it is. In regards to critical thinking (the objective analysis and evaluation of an issue in order to form a judgment), there seems that YES, critical thinking skills are required. After all, it takes a lot of effort to believe it at all!
But, outside of trying to prove something is factual, does faith (complete trust or confidence in someone or something; strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof), itself, faith doesn't seem to require critical thinking skills.
It seems faith only requires a few of things:
people with the need (for various reasons) to believe;
something to believe in &
a method to pontificate said belief.
For discussion:
Why do people feel the need to prove their belief (aka faith) is factual at all? Why can't they just be content with accepting 'Yeah, I believe in this by faith and that's good enough!'
Why do people try to prove faith?
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Re: Why do people try to prove faith?
Post #2Because they don't realize that by definition belief (faith) is not fact---if it was a fact it would amount to knowledge, not belief---but in their ignorance they push forward in their need to be right, usually prompted by threatening opposition some kind.nobspeople wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 2:24 pm For discussion:
Why do people feel the need to prove their belief (aka faith) is factual at all?
Because they recognize the weakness of faith and sometimes attempt to strengthen it by putting it in a whole other category of conviction.Why can't they just be content with accepting 'Yeah, I believe in this by faith and that's good enough!'
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Re: Why do people try to prove faith?
Post #3Faith (or 'buy -in') is a very powerful instinct. I have suffered from it for a long time and really, though I was always aware of the Other side of any argument, I was uncomfortably aware of the urge to defend my pet theory upon which I felt my personal credibility (in my own eyes even if nobody else cared) depended. It was really after getting into apologetics that I got my head around critical thinking and following the evidence. For the aspiring critical thinker, setting aside what one Wants to be true in favour of what actually Is true (so far as the best evidence goes) is an essential but hard lesson to learn. I should know, I have never learned it.
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Re: Why do people try to prove faith?
Post #4I foolishly expected at least one of those 'faith defenders' to jump in here. Silly me.TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:03 pm Faith (or 'buy -in') is a very powerful instinct. I have suffered from it for a long time and really, though I was always aware of the Other side of any argument, I was uncomfortably aware of the urge to defend my pet theory upon which I felt my personal credibility (in my own eyes even if nobody else cared) depended. It was really after getting into apologetics that I got my head around critical thinking and following the evidence. For the aspiring critical thinker, setting aside what one Wants to be true in favour of what actually Is true (so far as the best evidence goes) is an essential but hard lesson to learn. I should know, I have never learned it.
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Re: Why do people try to prove faith?
Post #5I can only speak for myself as one of Jehovah's Witnesses, for me its because I believe it is my Christian responsibility to do so. In short, my reading (my understanding) of the scriptures compels me to do so.nobspeople wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 2:24 pm Why do people feel the need to prove their belief (aka faith) is factual at all?
1 PETER 3:15
But sanctify the Christ as Lord in your hearts, always ready to make a defense before everyone who demands of you a reason for the hope you have ...
What I tell you in the darkness, tell in the light; and what you hear whispered in your ear, proclaim on the housetops - JESUS CHRIST
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How does proof differ from evidence?
viewtopic.php?p=950455#p950455
PROOF
evidence or argument establishing a fact or the truth of a statement.
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:09 am, edited 2 times in total.
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Re: Why do people try to prove faith?
Post #6JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 2:10 pmAs a Christian it is because I believe it is my Christian responsibility to do so. My reading (my jnderstanding) of the scriptures compels me to do so.nobspeople wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 2:24 pm Why do people feel the need to prove their belief (aka faith) is factual at all?
1 PETER 3:15
But sanctify the Christ as Lord in your hearts, always ready to make a defense before everyone who demands of you a reason for the hope you have ...
RELATED POSTS
How does proof differ from evidence?
viewtopic.php?p=950455#p950455
PROOF
evidence or argument establishing a fact or the truth of a statement.
Nope
That says nothing about trying to prove a belief as factual.
This thread is not about defending one's faith (I'm not sure many would object to one defending their belief and ability to believe in it) but trying to prove something of faith as fact
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Re: Why do people try to prove faith?
Post #7It doesnt have to, as I said I feel compelled because of MY understanding of scripture. Regardless of what words are used that's why I feel compelled to prove my faith. I think you asked why people I feel a need to prove something of faith as fact. I am a person and they are my reason.nobspeople wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 2:22 pm
That says nothing about trying to prove a belief as factual.
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Thu Nov 11, 2021 2:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Re: Why do people try to prove faith?
Post #8But having to prove something is fact, not faith, which is what this thread is about, not your understanding of this or that.JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 2:28 pmIt doesnt have to, as I said I feel compelled because of MY understanding of scripture. Regardless of what words are used that's why I feel compelled to prove my faith. I think you asked why people feel the need to prove their belief and I am a person and have explained why.nobspeople wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 2:22 pm
That says nothing about trying to prove a belief as factual.
To be clear, I didn't ask "why people feel the need to prove their belief", I asked "Why do people feel the need to prove their belief (aka faith) is factual at all?
Big difference.
Last edited by nobspeople on Thu Nov 11, 2021 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why do people try to prove faith?
Post #9nobspeople wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 2:33 pmBut having to prove something is fact, not faith, which is what this thread is about, not your understanding of this or that.JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 2:28 pmIt doesnt have to, as I said I feel compelled because of MY understanding of scripture. Regardless of what words are used that's why I feel compelled to prove my faith. I think you asked why people feel the need to prove their belief and I am a person and have explained why.nobspeople wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 2:22 pm
That says nothing about trying to prove a belief as factual.
Okay, ... my answer to the OP is now as follows : the scriptures above are why I feel the need to try to prove something of faith as fact.
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Thu Nov 11, 2021 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Re: Why do people try to prove faith?
Post #10Then you misunderstand the scripture you supplied. It says nothing about proving anything as factual. The word 'fact' was no were in the supplied scripture.JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 2:35 pmnobspeople wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 2:33 pmBut having to prove something is fact, not faith, which is what this thread is about, not your understanding of this or that.JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 2:28 pmIt doesnt have to, as I said I feel compelled because of MY understanding of scripture. Regardless of what words are used that's why I feel compelled to prove my faith. I think you asked why people feel the need to prove their belief and I am a person and have explained why.nobspeople wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 2:22 pm
That says nothing about trying to prove a belief as factual.
The scriptures above are why I Feel the need to try to prove something of faith as fact. You asked why and I have justntold you why
Have a great, potentially godless, day!