Are gods insignificant unless they do something?

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Zzyzx
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Are gods insignificant unless they do something?

Post #1

Post by Zzyzx »

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What is the significance of gods unless they do or have done something?

What have your favorite gods done lately (or ever)?

How do you know what they do or did? Did someone tell you? Read a book? Have a psychic experience? Use your imagination?

Is there any verifiable evidence that any of the thousands of proposed 'gods' has ever done anything?

Before humans learned about cause-and-effect in terrestrial matters, they credited ‘gods’ with being responsible for rain, flood, drought, storms, insect plagues, diseases, crop failures, thunder, darkening of the sun or moon, etc, etc. With those accounted for without need for ‘gods’, what is left for the ‘gods’ to do in respect to humans?
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ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence

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Willum
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Re: Are gods insignificant unless they do something?

Post #2

Post by Willum »

[Replying to post 1 by Zzyzx]
Re: Are gods insignificant unless they do something?
Well, yes.

How long should one wait for the "Return of the King"?

I think about 2/3 of a life-time is reasonable...
I will never understand how someone who claims to know the ultimate truth, of God, believes they deserve respect, when they cannot distinguish it from a fairy-tale.

You know, science and logic are hard: Religion and fairy tales might be more your speed.

To continue to argue for the Hebrew invention of God is actually an insult to the very concept of a God. - Divine Insight

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Post #3

Post by Diagoras »

Interesting topic, and similar to my ‘On natural phenomena’ thread (that’s quickly been sidetracked) :(

I suspect there’ll be plenty of people who consider ‘creating the universe and everything in it’ to be a satisfactory answer. For some, anything that’s beautiful in nature can be seen as ‘proof’ of God making it.

In similar vein, natural disasters are (in some people’s eyes) a sign from God that a group X has committed sin Y and is being punished.

For others, the answer will lie in unlikely probabilities and coincidences. The recoveries from illness after prayer, the long-lost wedding ring found far from home, etc. Once self-convinced that God’s hand was involved, any alternative cause won’t be considered (in my opinion and experience).

In short, some very strong confirmation biases will work to ‘prove’ that gods are actively involved and directing things.

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Re: Are gods insignificant unless they do something?

Post #4

Post by Elijah John »

[Replying to post 1 by Zzyzx]

What has God done? He created the universe, Deists see Him as the first cause, and all the laws of physics and biology are his tools, including evolution. And He sustains the universe as well though those laws.

What is the atheist's God. Science? How does science account for love, compassion, art, etc. Just a bunch of chemical reactions?

Seems unlikely.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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Re: Are gods insignificant unless they do something?

Post #5

Post by 1213 »

Zzyzx wrote: …What have your favorite gods done lately (or ever)?
I believe in Bible God and I believe He has created this world as described in the Bible. I believe also that Bible God has kept all His promises that are said in the Bible.
Zzyzx wrote:How do you know what they do or did? Did someone tell you? Read a book? Have a psychic experience? Use your imagination?
Reason why I believe is that I see Bible to be correct about thing that it says and no one has been able to show any real mistake in the Bible.
Zzyzx wrote:Is there any verifiable evidence that any of the thousands of proposed 'gods' has ever done anything?
I think the existence of this world is good evidence for that God created. If we would not exist, Bible would probably be wrong.
Zzyzx wrote:Before humans learned about cause-and-effect in terrestrial matters, they credited ‘gods’ with being responsible for rain, flood, drought, storms, insect plagues, diseases, crop failures, thunder, darkening of the sun or moon, etc, etc. With those accounted for without need for ‘gods’, what is left for the ‘gods’ to do in respect to humans?
It is still possible that God causes those things to happen. Obviously we may know more accurately about the mechanisms, but science can only tell how things happen, not why they happen.

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Re: Are gods insignificant unless they do something?

Post #6

Post by Zzyzx »

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1213 wrote:
Zzyzx wrote: …What have your favorite gods done lately (or ever)?
I believe in Bible God
Reason why I believe
I think the existence of this world
What you believe is of NO significance in debate. Pontificating about such things is a waste of time and space (though it does reinforce Non-Theist contention that Theists have no verifiable evidence to support their contentions).
1213 wrote: It is still possible that God causes those things to happen.
It is also possible that Leprechauns caused those things to happen – or fairies or unicorns
1213 wrote: Obviously we may know more accurately about the mechanisms, but science can only tell how things happen, not why they happen.
Okay, if religion purports to know ‘why they happen’, tell readers WHY it rains -- and show evidence to support what you say.
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ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence

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Re: Are gods insignificant unless they do something?

Post #7

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Zzyzx wrote: Is there any verifiable evidence that any of the thousands of proposed 'gods' has ever done anything?

We have multiple written records of verifiable evidence of the awsome acts of YHWH (Jehovah) the God of the bible. Acts performed before hundreds, sometimes thousands of eye-witnesses such as the parting of the Red Sea, providing of manna in the desert, the test on mount Carmel, as well as countless miracles performed before and/or experienced by witnesses.
All the written records have been compiled into one volume for easy access. For the most part, the experiences of those that testified are clearly identified by name (or group name), while the individual writers understood their role was simply to accurately record the testimonies and as such often chose to remain anonymous. The testimonies rightly stand on their own merit, meaning due examination of its contents (rather than the influence and reputation of its writers) is enough to establish its reliability as a accurate historically sound document.
CONCLUSION The body of recorded testimony of reported empirical evidence validated by direct observation, is enough to dispell any reasonable doubt as to whether Jehovah is the one true and living God!


JW


Personal Blog: Evidence v proof
https://fosterheologicalreflections.blo ... ience.html


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Zzyzx
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Re: Are gods insignificant unless they do something?

Post #8

Post by Zzyzx »

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JehovahsWitness wrote:
Zzyzx wrote: Is there any verifiable evidence that any of the thousands of proposed 'gods' has ever done anything?
We have multiple written records of verifiable evidence of the awsome acts of YHWH (Jehovah) the God of the bible. Acts performed before hundreds, sometimes thousands of eye-witnesses such as the parting of the Red Sea, providing of manna in the desert, the test on mount Carmel, as well as countless miracles performed before and/or experienced by witnesses.

Thus the body of recorded testimony of empirical evidence is enough to dispell any reasonable doubt as to whether Jehovah is the one true and living God!l
Who wrote the accounts?

Would that be the same person who wrote accounts of the supposed six day creation? Witness accounts?

What witness accounts of 'awesome acts' are available? Would that be unverifiable Bible tales?
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Re: Are gods insignificant unless they do something?

Post #9

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Zzyzx wrote:
What witness accounts of 'awesome acts' are available?
All records of first hand, eye-witness accounts can be found the bible. NOTE: Which are actually a collection of books written over a period of time and eventually collected into a single volume.

JW
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Re: Are gods insignificant unless they do something?

Post #10

Post by Willum »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Zzyzx wrote:
What witness accounts of 'awesome acts' are available?
All the written records have been compiled into one volume for easy access. They have come to be known as "The bible" or for believers "Holy Scripture". For the most part those that testified wished to remain anonymous. The records stand on their own merit.
Really? I am not sure I have ever heard that this Bible stands on its own merits.
I am very sure its first parts come from the fables of Armenian, Canaan, Babylonian, Egyptian, Sumerian, Phoenician and many other pagan tales.
A give-away is that none of the tales seem to have a Hebrew origin. Which is astounding.

I am sure its principle hero, a man whose actions Hitler can, and did claim moral outrage; Moses, blissfully did not exist.

Then there is the part II, undermining the perfect works of the first, somehow.
A New Testament written in Rome, and dispersed by Rome, whose principal wisdoms concern obeying Rome's government, maintaining its peace and paying its taxes.

Are these the records you claim stand on their own merit? They seem to have excellent pagan references.

Now that that has been corrected, my work is done.

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