Would you still believe if....

Argue for and against Christianity

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nobspeople
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Would you still believe if....

Post #1

Post by nobspeople »

God (the modern, christian interpretation of) were to be a mortal race of advanced beings?

Looking at the bible itself, the OT god seems all vengeful, angry and serious, while the NT god seems to be about loving, kindness, forgiveness and, for lack of a better term, providing a 'way' out of the mess made by the OT god.

Looking at all the miracle pontificated about in the bible, you see a lot of 'natural' causes - floods, insects for examples - that one would think, would be beneath a supreme supernatural being. If a being can do anything (aka god, creator of all that is) why use water to kill? Why not simply 'pull a Thanos'? A simple finger snap. Or a thought. Or, use some sort of here-to-fore unknown source of power that can't be explained. Why not only 'wow' humanity but humble them beyond reason?

So, to me, it seems this can-do-anything-god that so many worshipped doesn't live up to the hype and is, relatively, simple in its actions.

Add to this all the other 'gods' from other cultures - many of which share the same or very, very similar stories, and I wonder how immortal and supernatural god actually is. Why can't these gods be a race of supreme, but mortal and flawed, beings? Surely humans could seem that way to ants. Or fish. Imagine the stories a fish would have to tell his friends once he's caught, removed from his environment, then returned!

So, if gods (including your god) were shown to be a mortal, flawed, supreme (by human standards) being, would it change you you see it? Would it change how you worship it?
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Would you still believe if....

Post #51

Post by nobspeople »

William wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:23 pm [Replying to nobspeople in post #49]
Who says it had to germinate at all?
My question is focused on the fact that it did germinate, rather than that it had to, although what we do know from seeds is that they have to germinate when the conditions allow this to occur.

Therefore it can be reasonably assumed that since it did, it most likely had to.
So, to answer the question asked, YOU said it had to germinate.
The fact that it did germinate, is it a fact or your opinion that it did germinate? :tongue:
I get what you're saying, though. But, you ask a question to which we don't know the answer - and have little to no way of finding out in this reality.
So, other than it being an exercise of asking, is there any point in asking?
Asking for a friend
Ask
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William
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Re: Would you still believe if....

Post #52

Post by William »

[Replying to nobspeople in post #51]
So, other than it being an exercise of asking, is there any point in asking?
Yes. We need not assume that we cannot find an answer to any question we can form. Certainly this question can be reasonably answered in relation to the evidence the universe itself presents.

Emergent Theory is one possible answer as to why consciousness exists, but begs the question re the germinating which should be regarded as "something which needed to happen, since the conditions were right."

We do not need to know about what those conditions and processes were, in order to reach the reasonably assumed conclusion that the conditions were right, since the result is obvious to us here and now.

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Re: Would you still believe if....

Post #53

Post by nobspeople »

William wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:21 pm [Replying to nobspeople in post #51]
So, other than it being an exercise of asking, is there any point in asking?
Yes. We need not assume that we cannot find an answer to any question we can form. Certainly this question can be reasonably answered in relation to the evidence the universe itself presents.

Emergent Theory is one possible answer as to why consciousness exists, but begs the question re the germinating which should be regarded as "something which needed to happen, since the conditions were right."

We do not need to know about what those conditions and processes were, in order to reach the reasonably assumed conclusion that the conditions were right, since the result is obvious to us here and now.
Agreed.
However, there seems to be a genre of questioning asked, it seems, specifically, that the asker knows can't be answered. That doesn't mean those interested shouldn't look. But they should look in the right places.
Asking and looking for 'the reason of existence', 'how god/creator came to be', etc, in places such as this, for example, are highly unlikely to net answers. Though, there's something to be said for simply having the discussion. I suppose the goal of the asker is what's important: do they want a real answer or do they simply want to discuss it?
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Would you still believe if....

Post #54

Post by William »

nobspeople wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 6:29 am
William wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:21 pm [Replying to nobspeople in post #51]
So, other than it being an exercise of asking, is there any point in asking?
Yes. We need not assume that we cannot find an answer to any question we can form. Certainly this question can be reasonably answered in relation to the evidence the universe itself presents.

Emergent Theory is one possible answer as to why consciousness exists, but begs the question re the germinating which should be regarded as "something which needed to happen, since the conditions were right."

We do not need to know about what those conditions and processes were, in order to reach the reasonably assumed conclusion that the conditions were right, since the result is obvious to us here and now.
Agreed.
However, there seems to be a genre of questioning asked, it seems, specifically, that the asker knows can't be answered. That doesn't mean those interested shouldn't look. But they should look in the right places.
Asking and looking for 'the reason of existence', 'how god/creator came to be', etc, in places such as this, for example, are highly unlikely to net answers. Though, there's something to be said for simply having the discussion. I suppose the goal of the asker is what's important: do they want a real answer or do they simply want to discuss it?
I think that such questions are asked for the purpose of them being potentially answered in the act of communion between the participants.

Such questions beg answers rather than a particular answer and the answers help point to a probable overall answer.

A real answer may be found through the process of discussion.

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Re: Would you still believe if....

Post #55

Post by nobspeople »

William wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:15 am
nobspeople wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 6:29 am
William wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:21 pm [Replying to nobspeople in post #51]
So, other than it being an exercise of asking, is there any point in asking?
Yes. We need not assume that we cannot find an answer to any question we can form. Certainly this question can be reasonably answered in relation to the evidence the universe itself presents.

Emergent Theory is one possible answer as to why consciousness exists, but begs the question re the germinating which should be regarded as "something which needed to happen, since the conditions were right."

We do not need to know about what those conditions and processes were, in order to reach the reasonably assumed conclusion that the conditions were right, since the result is obvious to us here and now.
Agreed.
However, there seems to be a genre of questioning asked, it seems, specifically, that the asker knows can't be answered. That doesn't mean those interested shouldn't look. But they should look in the right places.
Asking and looking for 'the reason of existence', 'how god/creator came to be', etc, in places such as this, for example, are highly unlikely to net answers. Though, there's something to be said for simply having the discussion. I suppose the goal of the asker is what's important: do they want a real answer or do they simply want to discuss it?
I think that such questions are asked for the purpose of them being potentially answered in the act of communion between the participants.

Such questions beg answers rather than a particular answer and the answers help point to a probable overall answer.

A real answer may be found through the process of discussion.
The bolded is somewhat true. But, in reality, many of these types of unanswerable questions need facts and data to support their claims, not simply discussed opinions.
Two thousand of us can discuss that an elephant is actually a reptile, but that won't make it true until it's tested and proven either way.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Would you still believe if....

Post #56

Post by William »

[Replying to nobspeople in post #55]
A real answer may be found through the process of discussion.
The bolded is somewhat true. But, in reality, many of these types of unanswerable questions need facts and data to support their claims, not simply discussed opinions.
Two thousand of us can discuss that an elephant is actually a reptile, but that won't make it true until it's tested and proven either way.
This is why I incorporate the study of a form of gematria as it pertains to the English language, and as language pertains to codifying vocalized sounds. It provides data which allows for science to be done.

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Re: Would you still believe if....

Post #57

Post by alexxcJRO »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:44 am
alexxcJRO wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:54 am
Together with bible saying God is omnipotent, [and ] impotent ...an incoherent concept-logical impossibility.
Obviously being simultaneously "omnipotent, [and ] impotent ..." is a logical impossibility but the bible does not say this is the case.


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Off course when words have no meaning and anything can mean anything.
"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets."
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived."
"God is a insignificant nobody. He is so unimportant that no one would even know he exists if evolution had not made possible for animals capable of abstract thought to exist and invent him"
"Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer."

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Re: Would you still believe if....

Post #58

Post by JehovahsWitness »

alexxcJRO wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:46 pm

Off course when words have no meaning and anything can mean anything.


If that's what you believe I should think there would be little point in trying to engage in ration discourse with you.

I do not believe the above to be the case but if you do, enjoy!




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INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Would you still believe if....

Post #59

Post by nobspeople »

alexxcJRO wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:46 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:44 am
alexxcJRO wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:54 am
Together with bible saying God is omnipotent, [and ] impotent ...an incoherent concept-logical impossibility.
Obviously being simultaneously "omnipotent, [and ] impotent ..." is a logical impossibility but the bible does not say this is the case.


JW
Off course when words have no meaning and anything can mean anything.
I've found that, when the 'chips are down', believers tend to 'amend' what words mean - believe/belief now means know, for example, and they make the logically impossible possible, but only to serve their purpose - then it's 'back to normal'.
When that happens, what you claim seems to be happening. And when that happens, it's pointless to try more with them IMO. But that doesn't matter: their true colors are showing brighter than anything else anyone can say.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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