God's 'track record'

Argue for and against Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
nobspeople
Prodigy
Posts: 3191
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:32 am
Has thanked: 1510 times
Been thanked: 817 times

God's 'track record'

Post #1

Post by nobspeople »

In another thread, a poster said the following:
Does that good track record, overall include eliminating war, hunger, corruption, injustice and suffering?
It made me wonder, how would god's track record rate?

Let's look at biblically supplied highlights (not in chronical order necessarily):
God created everything :approve:
Then it made man :approve:
Then mad was tempted by satan
This would mean god made satan and allowed satan to tempt man, knowing (if god's all knowing) that man would sin :confused2:
Then god got mad and pouted like a spoiled child (editorializing a bit there but you get the jest) and made man to suffer through sin and ultimately die :confused2:
God asks a guy to sacrifice his son, which he tries but then god sends an angel to stop it :ok:
God gets upset with a city and obliterates it from the planet :blink:
God gets upset with humanity and drowns all terrestrial life (including babies, women in the middle of child birth, animals (which have NOTHING to do with man's sin) and plants) :no:
God THEN offers a sacrifice to sin as himself/son/self/son/self (the debate still lingers as to the specifics of this person)
This person lives a life to his early 30s :approve:
God allows a guy to betray himself/son/self/etc and allows history to see this guy as a traitor when, in all actuality, SOME guy had to do this in order to complete god's 'plan' :facepalm:
Then this god/man/god/man dies and raises from the dead :bigeyes: :approve:
God allows mankind's history to be told in 'the bible', even though there are Es and Os which cause confusion for the remainder of humanity :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

Being that humanity is IMPERFECT and god (is said to be) PERFECT, we can't legitimately judge the two with the same measurement.
So let's judge god's 'track record':
:approve: or
:confused2: or
:down:
How would YOU judge god's work?
How should god's work be judged?
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

User avatar
JoeyKnothead
Under Probation
Posts: 18673
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:59 am
Location: Here
Has thanked: 1629 times
Been thanked: 1118 times

Re: God's 'track record'

Post #101

Post by JoeyKnothead »

FaithWillDo wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:39 am Dear Joeyknothead,
God will show Himself to you someday,
...
In honorable debate, folks're expected to show their claims're true and factual.

Please do so for your claim here.
Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
In this section of the site, the bible ain't considered authoritative. Can you provide any other means by which we may confirm you speak truth?
But I can assure you, He loves you every bit as much as He loves anyone else.
...
In honorable debate, folks're expected to show their claims're true and factual.

Please do so for your claim here.
For now though, you really shouldn't be judging God or the ones to whom He has made Himself known.
...
It's you I'm doing my judging about - on whether I should consider you a teller of truth, or just another preacher.
You are like a blind man who is judging a sighted person for trying to explain about the wonderful colors of a rainbow.
...
Do you think that analogy might be considered insulting by those who reject your / biblical claims?

I've seen rainbows. What I ain't seen is any reason to believe your claims.
Discovery is finding things that exist.
Invention is using things discovered.

Create that path and engineer a metamorphosis.

- William

FaithWillDo
Apprentice
Posts: 101
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2021 1:33 pm
Location: Fort Collins, Colorado, US
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: God's 'track record'

Post #102

Post by FaithWillDo »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:06 am
FaithWillDo wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:39 am Dear Joeyknothead,
God will show Himself to you someday,
...
In honorable debate, folks're expected to show their claims're true and factual.

Please do so for your claim here.
Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
In this section of the site, the bible ain't considered authoritative. Can you provide any other means by which we may confirm you speak truth?
But I can assure you, He loves you every bit as much as He loves anyone else.
...
In honorable debate, folks're expected to show their claims're true and factual.

Please do so for your claim here.
For now though, you really shouldn't be judging God or the ones to whom He has made Himself known.
...
It's you I'm doing my judging about - on whether I should consider you a teller of truth, or just another preacher.
You are like a blind man who is judging a sighted person for trying to explain about the wonderful colors of a rainbow.
...
Do you think that analogy might be considered insulting by those who reject your / biblical claims?

I've seen rainbows. What I ain't seen is any reason to believe your claims.
Dear Joeyknothead,
You said:
In honorable debate, folks're expected to show their claims're true and factual.
Please do so for your claim here.


God reveals His truth to mankind through His Word. His Word is Jesus Christ and a witness of Him is recorded in scripture. If you won't accept scripture, then you won't accept what is "true and factual".

Here are a couple of verses anyway, since you asked:

1 Tim 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

"Every eye will see Him" is when Christ comes to us the second time (Latter Rain) and reveals Himself to each of us through His Word. It is at this time that our spiritual blindness is healed. Until that event happens to an individual, they cannot know God.

You asked:
In this section of the site, the bible ain't considered authoritative. Can you provide any other means by which we may confirm you speak truth?

God reveals His truth ONLY through scripture. If you won't accept God's Word as "authoritative" then you will not be able to find the knowledge of God.

If you want physical evidence for the existence of God, there are many good youtube videos on the events presented in the Book of Genesis. I recommend these channels: "Is Genesis history?" and "Young Earth Creation" and "Answers in Genesis".

You said:
It's you I'm doing my judging about - on whether I should consider you a teller of truth, or just another preacher.

I have received the Latter Rain and Christ has healed my spiritual blindness. I have found the knowledge of God.

Prov 2:1-5 My son, if you receive my words and treasure up my commandments with you, making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding; yes, if you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures, then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God.

We only become a son of God when we are converted at the time of the Latter Rain. Without that event, a person cannot "receive my words".

As for you accepting what I present, you cannot and you will not until you have likewise experienced the Latter Rain. Since Christ has not even given you the Early Rain at this time, I cannot help you. You must wait on the Lord to come to you at the time He has set.

You said:
Do you think that analogy might be considered insulting by those who reject your / biblical claims?

If a person believes that they know God and I say to them that they do not, they will probably be offended. Christ frequently told the Pharisees that they were blind and when they heard it, they were offended. The Pharisees are the equivalent to Early Rain believers in all the 2000 different denominations/sects of Christianity who are also spiritually blind. They frequently take offense when I say they are blind because they believe that they can see (just like the Pharisees believed). The "churches" of this world are places where the "blind lead the blind". It is only when Christ comes a second time to one of these blind Early Rain believers that they have their blindness healed. Once they can see for the first time, they can then know just how blind they were before. It is an earth shaking event (spiritually speaking). This happened to me in 2005. I posted my testimony from that time in a recent post on this thread.

John 9:40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also? Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Luke 6:39 And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

Spiritual blindness is having no ability to know God. It is not a physical blindness.

As for my analogy, I used the physical to explain the spiritual, just as scripture frequently does.

As for you being offended with my words, why would you be??? You readily admit that you don't know God or that He even exists. So why would you be insulted when I am only agreeing with you?

Joe

User avatar
Purple Knight
Guru
Posts: 2112
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:00 pm
Has thanked: 668 times
Been thanked: 407 times

Re: God's 'track record'

Post #103

Post by Purple Knight »

cms wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:07 pm
Purple Knight wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:10 pm If I was just a greedy idiot I would simply hold out and get the $1000. $1000 is worth more than a taco. $1000 can buy many tacos. So if I go for the taco, the problem isn't me wanting the taco over the $1000, the problem is me being unable to choose otherwise. This is why I took sin out of it and did an experiment on whether I can really do whatever I want - whether I have free will - or whether, at some point, the body controls the mind.
Purple Knight, But you do have a choice in this scenario, taco or money. The world is filled with testimonies of what people can do when they have the will to do it.
You try choosing the money over the taco when you've been starving for six days, knowing you have to hold out for four more or you won't get it anyway.

I made the bet because I really believed, if you want to be skinny, no matter how skinny, just don't eat. Just use willpower. I had to find out for myself that willpower is not infinite. I told her, there is no difference between that anorexic girl sexfully showing off her bones and you, except that every day, she chooses her extreme beauty over food. She those ribs, that spine, those hipbones? She chose that, you didn't. So simple. I was wrong. I was proven wrong.

She didn't ask any $1000 from me, she just offered to give it to me if I won. And she put it in my glove compartment. Cash. For six days, she went where I went. All she wanted if she won was an admission that the type of willpower I was asking for doesn't exist. And it doesn't. At least, not in me. If there are saints with infinite willpower, fine, but that doesn't mean I have that.

I'm supposed to believe you. I'm also supposed to believe how much people eat, or even whether they eat, is a choice. You can just not sin. If you want to be skinnier just don't eat. But I have this terrible curse where I'm actually interested in the truth and willing to be proven wrong.

User avatar
JoeyKnothead
Under Probation
Posts: 18673
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:59 am
Location: Here
Has thanked: 1629 times
Been thanked: 1118 times

Re: God's 'track record'

Post #104

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Snipping bible verses, as I ain't here for a sermon...
FaithWillDo wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 12:13 pm God reveals His truth to mankind through His Word. His Word is Jesus Christ and a witness of Him is recorded in scripture. If you won't accept scripture, then you won't accept what is "true and factual".
More unproven assertions with no means to confirm any of it.
God reveals His truth ONLY through scripture. If you won't accept God's Word as "authoritative" then you will not be able to find the knowledge of God.
More assertions with no means to confirm any of it.
If you want physical evidence for the existence of God, there are many good youtube videos on the events presented in the Book of Genesis. I recommend these channels: "Is Genesis history?" and "Young Earth Creation" and "Answers in Genesis".
I'm not wasting my time wading through videos in the hope I can magically find what you consider evidence for your claims.
You are like a blind man who is judging a sighted person for trying to explain about the wonderful colors of a rainbow. :
JK wrote: It's you I'm doing my judging about - on whether I should consider you a teller of truth, or just another preacher.
I have received the Latter Rain and Christ has healed my spiritual blindness. I have found the knowledge of God.
So you claim, while presenting nothing by which we may confirm you speak truth.
As for you accepting what I present, you cannot and you will not until you have likewise experienced the Latter Rain. Since Christ has not even given you the Early Rain at this time, I cannot help you. You must wait on the Lord to come to you at the time He has set.
More unevidenced assertions
JK wrote: Do you think that analogy might be considered insulting by those who reject your / biblical claims?
If a person believes that they know God and I say to them that they do not, they will probably be offended. Christ frequently told the Pharisees that they were blind and when they heard it, they were offended. The Pharisees are the equivalent to Early Rain believers in all the 2000 different denominations/sects of Christianity who are also spiritually blind. They frequently take offense when I say they are blind because they believe that they can see (just like the Pharisees believed). The "churches" of this world are places where the "blind lead the blind". It is only when Christ comes a second time to one of these blind Early Rain believers that they have their blindness healed. Once they can see for the first time, they can then know just how blind they were before. It is an earth shaking event (spiritually speaking). This happened to me in 2005. I posted my testimony from that time in a recent post on this thread.
...
Spiritual blindness is having no ability to know God. It is not a physical blindness.
...
I propose if you're seeing spirits a visit with a qualified therapist might be in order.
You readily admit that you don't know God or that He even exists. So why would you be insulted when I am only agreeing with you?
"I only used offensive language cause I'm all godly and all, and since you ain't, you ain't worthy of respect."

Don't worry, I actually don't take offense at the comments of a dolt.
Discovery is finding things that exist.
Invention is using things discovered.

Create that path and engineer a metamorphosis.

- William

User avatar
brunumb
Prodigy
Posts: 3927
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:20 am
Location: Melbourne
Has thanked: 2994 times
Been thanked: 1628 times

Re: God's 'track record'

Post #105

Post by brunumb »

FaithWillDo wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:39 am But I can assure you, He loves you every bit as much as He loves anyone else. And He has a plan to convert all mankind into His children by the end of the final age.
You have absolutely no way of knowing that, or anything else you claim about how God thinks or feels. Why should anyone believe you?
Christianty: 2000 years of making it up as you go along.

FaithWillDo
Apprentice
Posts: 101
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2021 1:33 pm
Location: Fort Collins, Colorado, US
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: God's 'track record'

Post #106

Post by FaithWillDo »

brunumb wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:34 am
FaithWillDo wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:39 am But I can assure you, He loves you every bit as much as He loves anyone else. And He has a plan to convert all mankind into His children by the end of the final age.
You have absolutely no way of knowing that, or anything else you claim about how God thinks or feels. Why should anyone believe you?
Dear brunumb,
In your created state, you are not going to believe me or God's Word:

Rom 3:10-11 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Unless Christ comes to you personally and gives you His "gifts", you will remain in your marred spiritual state we all have from birth. Mankind cannot know God or change themselves spiritually. We truly are at the mercy of Christ to save us.

As for me knowing that God loves you as much as He loves anyone else, I am 100% confident that He does because God's Word tells me so. God is not a respecter of persons and He will do has He sees fit in this world. He makes us into what we are -some are made for dishonor and some are made for honor. Until you receive both the Early and Latter Rain of His Spirit, you are not going to believe or understand. For now, this life which God has given mankind is a time of evil and tribulation. Don't expect it to be anything else until mankind has been fully made into children of God.

This passage below shows the very end of the final age when all of mankind is finally changed into children of God. This day will come as certainly as the sun will rise today.

Rev 7: 9-17 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

Joe

nobspeople
Prodigy
Posts: 3191
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:32 am
Has thanked: 1510 times
Been thanked: 817 times

Re: God's 'track record'

Post #107

Post by nobspeople »

brunumb wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:34 am
FaithWillDo wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:39 am But I can assure you, He loves you every bit as much as He loves anyone else. And He has a plan to convert all mankind into His children by the end of the final age.
You have absolutely no way of knowing that, or anything else you claim about how God thinks or feels. Why should anyone believe you?
Sometimes, it seems, people like to live in an alternated state of reality, where they 'know' things that's not likely possible (it's amusingly enjoyable to watch different people argue over the same thing with others, each 'knowing' something that's not what the others 'know').
I've found it's calming for some people to substitute the word and idea of 'know' and 'believe' - sometimes to the point where they actually believe they know something that's not likely remotely knowable (I have family members like this).
We shouldn't be too surprised at this simply because it seems to be something that makes one 'feel good' (or sometimes feel better/superior to others). That is not to say it shouldn't be challenged, either - though there's likely to be no delta in the individual's POV and thinking.
Speaking more directly, I don't believe it's possible for a flawed, imperfect being (a person) to know what a perfect, all knowing thing (god) means or what any more than it's possible to know what your cat wants (though I suspect it's much easier to know what the cat wants).
That said, if one makes up their supreme being in their mind (where, let's face it, seems to be the only places this 'thing' is) it's highly probable they 'know' what (their) god thinks, wants and means as it's simply an internal projection of their self, seen as something 'more than themselves'.

Having said that, what's our opinion of god's track record?
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

User avatar
JoeyKnothead
Under Probation
Posts: 18673
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:59 am
Location: Here
Has thanked: 1629 times
Been thanked: 1118 times

Re: God's 'track record'

Post #108

Post by JoeyKnothead »

FaithWillDo wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:14 am ...
As for me knowing that God loves you as much as He loves anyone else, I am 100% confident that He does because God's Word tells me so.
...
I'm curious to know how many gays and adulterers and such you've stoned. Or how many babies you've bashed against the rocks.

Or maybe most importantly, where you shop so your clothes ain't all some kinda poly-cotton blend.
Discovery is finding things that exist.
Invention is using things discovered.

Create that path and engineer a metamorphosis.

- William

nobspeople
Prodigy
Posts: 3191
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:32 am
Has thanked: 1510 times
Been thanked: 817 times

Re: God's 'track record'

Post #109

Post by nobspeople »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:07 am
FaithWillDo wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:14 am ...
As for me knowing that God loves you as much as He loves anyone else, I am 100% confident that He does because God's Word tells me so.
...
I'm curious to know how many gays and adulterers and such you've stoned. Or how many babies you've bashed against the rocks.

Or maybe most importantly, where you shop so your clothes ain't all some kinda poly-cotton blend.
Careful what you ask for! :D
Seriously though, from what I've been told, modern christians don't have to follow those rules, conveniently enough.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

FaithWillDo
Apprentice
Posts: 101
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2021 1:33 pm
Location: Fort Collins, Colorado, US
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: God's 'track record'

Post #110

Post by FaithWillDo »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:07 am
FaithWillDo wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:14 am ...
As for me knowing that God loves you as much as He loves anyone else, I am 100% confident that He does because God's Word tells me so.
...
I'm curious to know how many gays and adulterers and such you've stoned. Or how many babies you've bashed against the rocks.

Or maybe most importantly, where you shop so your clothes ain't all some kinda poly-cotton blend.
Dear JoeyKnothead and nobspeople,

JoeyKnothead said:
I'm curious to know how many gays and adulterers and such you've stoned. Or how many babies you've bashed against the rocks.

Your comment proves that you have no understanding of God or His Word. You should stop acting like you do. You are embarrassing yourself.

The Law of Moses was fulfilled by Christ at the cross. No longer does the Law condemn anyone who is has been converted, nor do His children condemn anyone who has not been converted. The only Law for a Christian is the love God and to love your neighbor as yourself - that includes gays and adulterers.

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


All mankind sins - gays and adulterers are no better or worse than anyone else. Do you believe they are?

However, for those who are not converted, they hate God and they hate their neighbors. This is why there is so much evil in the world. For this reason, Christ will come to them and change them from within. This is conversion - going from being a child of the Devil to being a child of God. Christ has established a pathway to conversion for each person who has ever lived. Once all mankind is converted, the evil and hatred of this world will cease to exist.

The Law was given by Moses to prove that the Law cannot stop anyone from sinning. A spiritual change from within is the only thing that will work. And since mankind has no power to spiritually change themselves, Christ came into the world to do this work for us.

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

Christ does not ask mankind for permission to make this spiritual change within us. He simply does it and He does it at a time that He chooses. Mankind has no say in the matter. He is God and our Creator and as such, He has the right to do as He pleases.

One of the reasons you hate God (even though you say you don't believe He exists) is because Satan has deceived you into believing that God is something that He is not. Our God and Creator is loving, merciful and will not stop His work until EVERYONE has been made into a child of God and has immortal life. Someday you will come out from Satan's deceptions and ask the Lord to forgive you - and of course, He will.

Joe

Post Reply