Christianity and science

Argue for and against Christianity

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nobspeople
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Christianity and science

Post #1

Post by nobspeople »

Christians don't seem to have any problems believing in the science that created the computer they're typing on. Or phone they use. TV they watch. Yet some don't believe science that thwarts their understanding of, or causes issues with, their religion (evolution, abortion issues, homosexuality, etc).

It seems science is OK so long as it doesn't interfere with their beliefs that come from a book written by long, dead men, edited by other men (all of which were imperfect) about a perfect (many say) being.

For discussion:
Is this distrust of science stemming from the distrust of science itself, lack of faith in science and the flawed men that support said science (ironically they have no issues with the imperfect men that wrote and edited the bible but that's something for another topic), lack of faith in their holy book, or something else entirely (please submit YO on what the 'something else' is)?
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Re: Christianity and science

Post #81

Post by nobspeople »

Purple Knight wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:28 pm
nobspeople wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:32 pm I reverse engineer a lot of things on a daily. No where have I said 'Dang! Look at that! A creator!!'
You would if you started from there being a creator.
Being a creator there would be no need to reverse engineer
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Re: Christianity and science

Post #82

Post by nobspeople »

mgb wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:17 am
nobspeople wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:32 pmI reverse engineer a lot of things on a daily basis. No where have I said 'Dang! Look at that! A creator!!'
I reverse engineered my bicycle and did not find a creator so it must have arisen purely out of random natural events.
If you can see how it works, there's no need to reverse engineer anything.

That said, christianity seems to use god to reverse engineer things they don't understand:
"I don't know how it works so instead of trying to understand it: GOD DID IT!"
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Re: Christianity and science

Post #83

Post by mgb »

nobspeople wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:33 am That said, christianity seems to use god to reverse engineer things they don't understand:
"I don't know how it works so instead of trying to understand it: GOD DID IT!"
Scientists don't really understand, they observe. To truly understand anything you have to understand everything; what is an electron? They don't know.

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Re: Christianity and science

Post #84

Post by nobspeople »

mgb wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:53 am
nobspeople wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:33 am That said, christianity seems to use god to reverse engineer things they don't understand:
"I don't know how it works so instead of trying to understand it: GOD DID IT!"
Scientists don't really understand, they observe. To truly understand anything you have to understand everything; what is an electron? They don't know.
Not totally true. While they do observe, there are things they understand.
What you're discussing as an 'all knowing' concept.
No one ever claimed (that I've seen) any scientist is all knowing.
Don't fall into the trap of discounting that, and purposefully confusing understanding with knowing, in lieu of a supernatural deity simply to 'make you feel good'. At least that's my suggestion. But by all means, chalk everything to a god if it makes you feel good. Just don't expect everyone to agree with you.

This is a prime example the lazy way how many discount science and what it understands because they don't understand it. It's easy to say 'well you don't know XYZ but god does so there!'
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Re: Christianity and science

Post #85

Post by Sherlock Holmes »

nobspeople wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:13 pm Christians don't seem to have any problems believing in the science that created the computer they're typing on. Or phone they use. TV they watch. Yet some don't believe science that thwarts their understanding of, or causes issues with, their religion (evolution, abortion issues, homosexuality, etc).

It seems science is OK so long as it doesn't interfere with their beliefs that come from a book written by long, dead men, edited by other men (all of which were imperfect) about a perfect (many say) being.

For discussion:
Is this distrust of science stemming from the distrust of science itself, lack of faith in science and the flawed men that support said science (ironically they have no issues with the imperfect men that wrote and edited the bible but that's something for another topic), lack of faith in their holy book, or something else entirely (please submit YO on what the 'something else' is)?
The vast majority of minds who contributed to the scientific revolution and the enlightenment and the growth of science were Christians, believed in a creator, believed in a created order and structure. Their belief in a creator was no impediment to the success of their investigations.

Yes there are some foolish people who call themselves "Christians" but simply because some fools are Christian does not mean that all Christians are fools, not according to my reasoning anyway.
When one has eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

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Re: Christianity and science

Post #86

Post by nobspeople »

[Replying to Sherlock Holmes in post #85]
The vast majority of minds who contributed to the scientific revolution and the enlightenment and the growth of science were Christians, believed in a creator, believed in a created order and structure.
From what I've seen, the vast majority of christians during this time would have little to do with modern christians in both their religious belief and understanding of science. This, to me, shows how malleable christianity is - to change so much in specific amount of time.
Yes there are some foolish people who call themselves "Christians" but simply because some fools are Christian does not mean that all Christians are fools, not according to my reasoning anyway.
Absolutely. I try to always make such differentiation on here, though sometimes I forget. To be fair, there are foolish people everywhere, belief or no. Perhaps it's a 'squeaky wheel gets the most oil' situation here?
Additionally, I've found that many that 'call themselves christian' wouldn't, by many christian standards, be considered christian at all. Though that's a different discussion that's been had on here prior.
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Re: Christianity and science

Post #87

Post by mgb »

nobspeople wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:58 amBut by all means, chalk everything to a god if it makes you feel good. Just don't expect everyone to agree with you.
It is not about chalking everything to God. It is having a deep, well thought out conviction that God is the source of the world. And having that conviction for many complex reasons. It is not as simplistic as believing is God because science can't explain it. The science vs. God thing is only something that's thrown up over the course of argument.

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Re: Christianity and science

Post #88

Post by nobspeople »

[Replying to mgb in post #87]
It is not about chalking everything to God. It is having a deep, well thought out conviction that God is the source of the world.
That's exactly what chalking it up to god means. :D
It is not as simplistic as believing is God because science can't explain it.
Only if you don't let it be simplistic. That's why FAITH is necessary in christianity. Agreement of faith with knowledge simultaneously on the same issue can't exist.
The science vs. God thing is only something that's thrown up over the course of argument.
And... here we are.

Interesting (I find, and that's sarcasm) that, out of everything I said, this is all you commented on. Funny how that works, ain't it (again, sarcasm)?

But it seems we've come to a point where nothing else needs to be said. Thanks for participating.
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Re: Christianity and science

Post #89

Post by Sherlock Holmes »

nobspeople wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:23 pm [Replying to mgb in post #87]
It is not about chalking everything to God. It is having a deep, well thought out conviction that God is the source of the world.
That's exactly what chalking it up to god means. :D
It is not as simplistic as believing is God because science can't explain it.
Only if you don't let it be simplistic. That's why FAITH is necessary in christianity. Agreement of faith with knowledge simultaneously on the same issue can't exist.
The science vs. God thing is only something that's thrown up over the course of argument.
And... here we are.

Interesting (I find, and that's sarcasm) that, out of everything I said, this is all you commented on. Funny how that works, ain't it (again, sarcasm)?
Many atheists I have discussed these issues with also have faith, they have faith in science, empiricism and dare I say it - atheism too.

The oft heard (and illogical) argument "just because science hasn't explained it yet doesn't mean..." is an expression of faith in the scientific method as the only means for answering all questions about the universe.
When one has eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

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Re: Christianity and science

Post #90

Post by nobspeople »

Sherlock Holmes wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:28 pm
nobspeople wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:23 pm [Replying to mgb in post #87]
It is not about chalking everything to God. It is having a deep, well thought out conviction that God is the source of the world.
That's exactly what chalking it up to god means. :D
It is not as simplistic as believing is God because science can't explain it.
Only if you don't let it be simplistic. That's why FAITH is necessary in christianity. Agreement of faith with knowledge simultaneously on the same issue can't exist.
The science vs. God thing is only something that's thrown up over the course of argument.
And... here we are.

Interesting (I find, and that's sarcasm) that, out of everything I said, this is all you commented on. Funny how that works, ain't it (again, sarcasm)?
Many atheists I have discussed these issues with also have faith, they have faith in science, empiricism and dare I say it - atheism too.

The oft heard (and illogical) argument "just because science hasn't explained it yet doesn't mean..." is an expression of faith in the scientific method as the only means for answering all questions about the universe.
I think everyone has some sort of faith in something as not everything's known. And some faith may not be misplaced, either. But when one knows something, faith about that 'thing' is no longer needed.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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