Christians, What Do You Make Of The Decline Of Your Religion?

[Miles]

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Or doesn't it matter?

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[TRANSPONDER]

I'm sure they will interpret it as dire times prophecy coming true, not because many people for one reason are another are becoming less impressed with it.

[1213]

Or doesn't it matter?

In Biblical point if view religion is not meaningful. That, who is righteous is, because eternal life is promised for righteous.

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.
Matt. 25:46

Obviously I hope many will find truth and love, but, I think it is also clear that it is not the majority:

I say to you that He will carry out the avenging of them speedily. But the Son of man coming then, will He find faith on the earth?
Luke 18:8
For many are called, but few chosen.
Matt. 22:14

[TRANSPONDER]

The more who are prepared to shrug it off rather than feel the need to make more efforts to convert those who are losing interest, the better for secularism.

[POI]

Or doesn't it matter?

In Biblical point if view religion is not meaningful. That, who is righteous is, because eternal life is promised for righteous.

Christianity is not religion?

Seems you are unable to correct your own beliefs. We went over this in another thread here (viewtopic.php?f=8&t=39327&start=340) - post 349. (i.e.) Romans 3:

"Righteousness Through Faith

21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in[h] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith."

Righteousness requires FAITH. More and more people are losing their FAITH, which means they are losing their 'righteousness' status. Last I checked, Christianity is a religion. To be a Christian, without faith, is nonsensical --- as it relates to the requirements of the religion.

[Miles]

Or doesn't it matter?

In Biblical point if view religion is not meaningful. That, who is righteous is, because eternal life is promised for righteous.

Curious, I looked up the JW definition of righteous"

From the Jehovah's Witnesses article: "Find Delight in Jehovah’s Righteousness" (all emphases mine)

14. What does the Bible mean when it speaks of a human as being “righteous”?

When the Bible speaks of a human as being “righteous,” it does not imply sinlessness or perfection. Rather, it means measuring up to one’s obligations before God and men.
Furthermore, righteousness in humans is very much related to [not ] what is in one’s heart​—one’s faith in and appreciation and love for Jehovah and his promises—​and not just to one’s doing what God requires.

Ultimately, righteousness in humans is contingent on faith in the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

Paul wrote: “It is as a free gift that they are being declared righteous by [God’s] undeserved kindness through the release by the ransom paid by Christ Jesus.” (Romans 3:24) Paul was there talking about those who were chosen to be joint heirs with Christ in the heavenly Kingdom. But Jesus’ ransom sacrifice also opened up for millions of others the opportunity of gaining a righteous standing before God.
source

So as I understand it, to be a JW righteous person one can sin to one's hearts content and be the biggest criminal bastard in the land yet still be righteous as long as a person has "faith in the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ," as expressed in the above third paragraph." That about it?

But then there's this little tidbit from Titus 3:4-5

4 But when the kindness and love of God our Savior toward mankind appeared, 5 he saved us—not by righteous works that we did ourselves, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and the renewal by the Holy Spirit,

"Righteous works"??? Now I'm all confused. What works do we do that are contingent on faith in the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ?



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[Wootah]

[Replying to Miles in post #1]

In fairness truth and people believing is irrelevant.

Second, I really just focus on myself, my own race with God.

But as we see Clown World increasing it seems to corollate with Christianity decreasing.

And I don't believe the stat's. Either for the decline or for how many Christians there were before.

[1213]

....
So as I understand it, to be a JW righteous person one can sin to one's hearts content and be the biggest criminal bastard in the land yet still be righteous as long as a person has "faith in the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ," as expressed in the above third paragraph." That about it?

But then there's this little tidbit from Titus 3:4-5

4 But when the kindness and love of God our Savior toward mankind appeared, 5 he saved us—not by righteous works that we did ourselves, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and the renewal by the Holy Spirit,

"Righteous works"??? Now I'm all confused. What works do we do that are contingent on faith in the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ?

I am not a JW and I think this should be understood as it is in the Bible.

I think Hebrews 11 explains well the meaning of faith. For example it tells about Noah, who was loyal (faithful) to God and built the ark, even though it was probably very odd looking about 100 years before the flood. Because he was loyal to God in that, he was counted righteous. Same is with disciples of Jesus ("Christians"). If they are loyal to Jesus and his words, they can be counted righteous. And if they are truly loyal to him, it will show also in their actions.

If person is loyal, it tells that person has right understanding, which is why righteousness can be called also wisdom of the just. If person has that, it comes visible also in the actions, which faith/loyalty also is. Actions tells what kind of person one is, but they don't define anyone, because they are only result of the mind.

And as the Bible tells, people should be born anew and become righteous and sin no more.

Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, if one does not receive birth from above, he is not able to see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus said to Him, How is a man able to be born, being old? He is not able to enter into his mother's womb a second time and be born? Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, if one does not receive birth out of water and Spirit, he is not able to enter into the kingdom of God. That receiving birth from the flesh is flesh, and that receiving birth from the Spirit is spirit. Do not wonder because I told you, You must receive birth from above.
Joh. 3:3-7

Little children, let no one lead you astray; the one practicing righteousness is righteous, even as that One is righteous. The one practicing sin is of the Devil, because the Devil sins from the beginning. For this the Son of God was revealed, that He undo the works of the Devil. Everyone who has been begotten of God does not sin, because His seed abides in him, and he is not able to sin, because he has been born of God. By this the children of God and the children of the Devil are revealed: Everyone not practicing righteousness is not of God; also the one not loving his brother.
1 Joh. 3:7-10

...Neither do I give judgment. Go, and sin no more.
Joh. 8:11

This means, by what the Bible tells, it is not ok to sin.

[1213]

Christianity is not religion?

Originally a Christians meant a disciple of Jesus, which can mean a follower of Jesus. Does following someone make it a religion?

"Righteousness Through Faith

21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in[h] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith."

Righteousness requires FAITH. ...

I would rather say, faith requires righteousness.

I have understood faith means one trusts or/and is loyal. For example Noah was loyal/faithful to God, he trusted what God told to him and built the ark, even though it could have looked ridiculous at that time. It is the reason why he was counted righteous. Same can be said about those who trust Jesus and his words. They can be counted righteous because of that.

And by what is said in the Bible, righteousness means wisdom of just, which can be seen as right understanding that leads to right actions. This means, your words and actions tells are you righteous or not, because all of your actions comes from your mind. If your mind is unrighteous, it produces unrighteous "fruit", and if righteous, then righteous "fruit", thus the saying, by fruits you shall know them.

If person show right understanding, he can be counted righteous. But, it can change. Person can reject it and become unrighteous. And unrighteous can become righteous also, by the words of Jesus. His words can cause the change of mind for righteousness. Receiving those words means person has faith in Jesus. And those words came to us with the price of Jesus blood, because he was killed for declaring the message.

Little children, let no one lead you astray; the one practicing righteousness is righteous, even as that One is righteous. The one practicing sin is of the Devil, because the Devil sins from the beginning. For this the Son of God was revealed, that He undo the works of the Devil. Everyone who has been begotten of God does not sin, because His seed abides in him, and he is not able to sin, because he has been born of God. By this the children of God and the children of the Devil are revealed: Everyone not practicing righteousness is not of God; also the one not loving his brother.
1 Joh. 3:7-10

But as many as received Him, to them He gave authority to become children of God, to the ones believing into His name, who were born not of bloods, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but were born of God.
Joh. 1:12-13

It is the Spirit that gives life. The flesh does not profit, nothing! The words which I speak to you are spirit and are life.
Joh. 6:63

When that change of mind happens, it can be said person is then born anew, from God.

Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, if one does not receive birth from above, he is not able to see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus said to Him, How is a man able to be born, being old? He is not able to enter into his mother's womb a second time and be born? Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, if one does not receive birth out of water and Spirit, he is not able to enter into the kingdom of God. That receiving birth from the flesh is flesh, and that receiving birth from the Spirit is spirit. Do not wonder because I told you, You must receive birth from above.
Joh. 3:3-7

Then God's law will be written in person's heart, he will know God's will, which was foretold in Jer. 31:31-34.

Because this is the covenant which I will covenant with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord, giving My laws into their mind, and I will write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be My people." "And they shall no more teach each one his neighbor, and each one his brother, saying, Know the Lord; because all shall know Me, from the least of them to their great ones. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousnesses, and I will not at all remember their sins and their lawless deeds."
Hepr. 8:10-12 (Jer. 31:31-34)

All this means, faith is only a result, not the cause. If person loses faith, it means his mind has changed somehow and he is not righteous anymore.

[TRANSPONDER]

I needn't dwell in the rejection of the stats. Irreligion is not the same as disbelief which is deemed not to be the same as atheism

Aside atheists have to deal with dislike and distrust from people who are atheists bet prefer to call themselves 'agnostic'.

But the point is what saves as is raised here. I think there is a lot of confusion, and not only with Christians. Faith in Jesus is what saves. That alone, nothing else. Jesusfaith is the lottery ticket (win is not guaranteed ) and no other way to be saved. None. Jesus faith, not being a good person.

It is at best a misunderstanding and at worse a deliberate scam, to claim that being a good person will save. A plaster saint of a Sunni will not get saved, unless they believe in Jesus - as the resurrected son of God, not just a 'prophet'. We know this and good works are a shell game.

Of course sinning can lose you salvation. Paul makes that clear and the 'once saved, always saved' lark is a crock. If you deface the books, you can lose your library ticket and don't let any Calvinist or whatever tell you different. These people either do not know or understand their scripture or do not care.

Thus, No; Hitler or any other Christian criminal may lose the grace given by Jesusfaith (provided their Denomination is not too outre). And repentance may do it (if sincere) to gain forgiveness. If there is a real intent not to sin again and the mean it.

"Do you think you can fool Santa like this?!" (Charlie Brown raving as Lucy and Linus pretend they are not always squabbling)

"Why not? We're a couple a sharp kids, and he's just an old man." Schultz had in mind how people seem to think they can somehow fool God. The showtrial repentances of the sacred scandalous may be genuine, or they may be cynical rehabilitation to keep scamming the faithful, but God is not fooled, or wouldn't be if he was there. But I suspect these efailangists know he isn't there and Religion is just a very profitable business. Up to Learjet profitable.

Again and again the Q has this op up:

What is the declining rate of Christianity?
Predictions about the decline of Christianity in America may ...
About 64% of Americans call themselves Christian today. That might sound like a lot, but 50 years ago that number was 90%, according to a 2020 Pew Research Center study. That same survey said the Christian majority in the US may disappear by 2070.