Racism in America - How should we address it?

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otseng
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Racism in America - How should we address it?

Post #1

Post by otseng »

https://time.com/5844645/george-floyds-shows-we-cannot-wait-end-racism/ wrote: George Floyd’s Murder Shows Once More That We Cannot Wait For White America to End Racism

George Floyd was murdered, and it was captured on camera. Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin had his knee pinned against Floyd’s neck for close to eight minutes. We heard a haunting repetition of the words “I can’t breathe.” Floyd cried out for his deceased mother and called out for his children as he desperately clung to life. Chauvin sat there, smug, hand in his pocket, with little regard for the man dying underneath the pressure of his knee. All of this over someone allegedly trying to use a counterfeit twenty-dollar bill at a local deli.
For debate:
- How should we address the racism in America?

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Re: Racism in America - How should we address it?

Post #121

Post by Samuel »

Tcg wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:31 pm

(
This was not the case at the time Rolfe fatally shot Brooks:
  • Howard said that at the time Rolfe aimed and fired at Brooks' back from 18 feet, 3 inches away, "Rolfe was aware that the Taser in Brooks' possession was fired twice and presented no danger to him."

    [/quote]
    This is what is what I found.
    The officer dropped his taser from his left hand after it appears he was hit by a barb on the video, draws his sidearm, fires 3 shots, falls against a car in the parking lot.
    https://www.georgialeo.org/post/apd

    It appears that the officer was actually shot with the taser. Also, considering the fact that Brooks had committed several felonies before the shooting, made him having a taser an illegal act. One thing I want to point out is that most of what I am saying I am getting off the internet, not just out of my mind. Not all of it makes sens to me, but it is the law.

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Re: Racism in America - How should we address it?

Post #122

Post by Tcg »

Samuel wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:02 am
I've never heard of any cases in which a police officer used a taser illegally.
Here's one for you:
  • 6 Atlanta officers have been charged in violent tasing incident

    Arrest warrants have been issued for six Atlanta police officers who were caught on video tasing two college students Saturday. The students were stopped for violating curfew, Georgia’s Fulton County District Attorney Paul Howard Jr. said Tuesday.

    The officers stand accused of aggravated assault, illegally pointing a taser, and criminal damage to property, said prosecutors. Video of the brutal arrest went viral over the weekend, leading to the firing of two officers involved; three others were placed on desk duty.

    https://www.vox.com/identities/2020/6/2 ... nt-charged
Tcg
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Re: Racism in America - How should we address it?

Post #123

Post by Tcg »

Samuel wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:18 am
It appears that the officer was actually shot with the taser.
This doesn't change the fact that Brooks had fired the taser twice and was essentially unarmed when fatally shot.
Also, considering the fact that Brooks had committed several felonies before the shooting, made him having a taser an illegal act.
Did Rolfe try Brooks, find him guilty and then execute judgement?

If so, was this a capital offense?


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

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Re: Racism in America - How should we address it?

Post #124

Post by Samuel »

Tcg wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:23 am
Samuel wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:02 am

Here's one for you:
  • 6 Atlanta officers have been charged in violent tasing incident

    Arrest warrants have been issued for six Atlanta police officers who were caught on video tasing two college students Saturday. The students were stopped for violating curfew, Georgia’s Fulton County District Attorney Paul Howard Jr. said Tuesday.

    The officers stand accused of aggravated assault, illegally pointing a taser, and criminal damage to property, said prosecutors. Video of the brutal arrest went viral over the weekend, leading to the firing of two officers involved; three others were placed on desk duty.

    https://www.vox.com/identities/2020/6/2 ... nt-charged
Tcg
This proves my point. Officers were charged with aggravated assault which proves that Brookes should have been as well. This plus several other felony charges, I believe, justified the shooting.

The officer was being shot with the taser when he shot Brooks. The taser puts out a 5 second constant pulse of stunning electricity. This means that Brooks was basically shooting the officer when the officer shot Brooks.

I am saying that what Brooks did justified his being shot. If he did not do all the things he did, he would not have been shot.

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Re: Racism in America - How should we address it?

Post #125

Post by Tcg »

Samuel wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:41 am
This proves my point. Officers were charged with aggravated assault which proves that Brookes should have been as well. This plus several other felony charges, I believe, justified the shooting.
Is being charged with aggravated assault equivalent to being shot dead?


Tcg
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Re: Racism in America - How should we address it?

Post #126

Post by Samuel »

Tcg wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:50 am
Samuel wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:41 am
This proves my point. Officers were charged with aggravated assault which proves that Brookes should have been as well. This plus several other felony charges, I believe, justified the shooting.
Is being charged with aggravated assault equivalent to being shot dead?


Tcg
according to the Georgia police law: 5. A police officer may use a firearm as a last resort: a) to defend a person and him/herself from a threat to their lives and/or health;
d) to prevent a violent crime if a person resists a police officer;
According to Find Law aggravated assault is an attempt to cause serious bodily harm to an individual with disregard for human life. Factors that raise an assault to the aggravated level typically include the use of a weapon, the status of the victim, the intent of the perpetrator, and the degree of injury caused.
So, aggravated assault toward the officer put his live and/or health in danger which, according to Georgia law, is a legal cause for the use of a firearm.

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Re: Racism in America - How should we address it?

Post #127

Post by Samuel »

koko wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:31 pm
Samuel wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:36 pm [Replying to koko in post #113]


Then why was the cop charged with murder?

In Georgia, stun guns and tasers can be bought over the counter without a licence. Doesn't make much sense for anyone to be able to buy something "deadly" without the state taking necessary precautions to prevent these weapons from getting into the wrong hands.
My point is that the officer shouldn't have been charged with murder. I don't know if the court was pressured by the black lives matter movement or what, but it is clear to me that the shooting was legal. I do know that the officer kicking Brooks did not help matters and I definitely don't think it was right or legal of him to do that. Thus, I think it would have been fine to charge the officer with assault or battery but not with murder.

Purchasing a taser is kind of like purchasing a gun. You must be over 18 years old and you can't be a felon which probably means that they will give you a background check. Of course, the laws for both guns and tasers will vary from state to state, but from what I've found, there are restrictions.
This is off the web: In any state anybody under the legal age of 18 is not allowed to purchase or carry a stun gun on their person, however you can be of any age to have a stun gun in your home.

koko

Re: Racism in America - How should we address it?

Post #128

Post by koko »

Samuel wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:33 am

My point is that the officer shouldn't have been charged with murder. I don't know if the court was pressured by the black lives matter movement or what, but it is clear to me that the shooting was legal. I do know that the officer kicking Brooks did not help matters ...

I don't buy that argument based on the data I have provided in earlier posts. The fact remains that police target blacks in ways they never do to whites. Selective enforcement of the law is the biggest problem here - had it been a white guy most likley they would have just told him to go home and not bothered to arrest him. It is a fact that police stupidly persist in arresting blacks in instances where they only give verbal warnings to whites. If these cops would only apply the law and their procedures on a uniform basis so much of these troubles would not be happening.

Don't arrest the black guy, just tell him to go home like you do with white guys (and even more so with white women). Treat everybody alike just like it says to do in the Bible. Problem solved.

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Re: Racism in America - How should we address it?

Post #129

Post by Samuel »

koko wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:10 am

I don't buy that argument based on the data I have provided in earlier posts. The fact remains that police target blacks in ways they never do to whites. Selective enforcement of the law is the biggest problem here - had it been a white guy most likley they would have just told him to go home and not bothered to arrest him. It is a fact that police stupidly persist in arresting blacks in instances where they only give verbal warnings to whites. If these cops would only apply the law and their procedures on a uniform basis so much of these troubles would not be happening.

Don't arrest the black guy, just tell him to go home like you do with white guys (and even more so with white women). Treat everybody alike just like it says to do in the Bible. Problem solved.
In 2015, The Washington Post launched a real-time database to track fatal police shootings, and the project continues this year. As of Sunday, 1,502 people have been shot and killed by on-duty police officers since Jan. 1, 2015. Of them, 732 were white, and 381 were black.

I've never seen a police officer that was racialist. I've seen angry officers and annoyed officers, but never a racialist officer. The thing is is that about one arrest is made every three seconds in the US. If the police are really as brutal as people say they are, we shouldn't have to wait a whole week to hear about a new case of police brutality. I don't believe all police are perfect. Far from it, I have seen some who are definitely not. However, I'd encourage you to watch Live PD. That is where you can see past all the media's lies, and just watch what really happens. I might also add that the police where being very respectful with Brooks until he ran off. And also, I've seen plenty of white people get arrested for being a DUI.
The last point I want to make is that I believe it is racialist to call the police racialist because this takes away the individuality of every officer. We are treating them like blacks were treated ninety years ago. He has a uniform on, that means he's a murderer. Please note that I'm not saying that this is what your saying, but it is what many are saying. If I said all blacks are murderers, I would be called racialist. Their are many black murders but not all of them are. Their are a few police murderers, but not all of them are.
All this to say, my original comment was just talking about this case, and this case only. I was merely pointing out that by definition of the law, the shooting was legal.
As for treating everyone like it says in the Bible, I wish that even I could do that all the time. I know, however, that I fail sometimes. I can't imagine being a police officer. To rescue people from fires, to give out tickets, to get shot at from who knows where, and to be called murderous recitalists. Police already have a large responsibility, making their job hard enough; but now they know that if they make one wrong move the whole US will erupt in chaos. I think that all the protests are doing is placing a greater load on the police's shoulders, which for me, doesn't help me treat others according to the Bible. I think we should treat them with compassion--lessen the load on their shoulders--make their job easier. I think we should treat them with the kindness that we demand from them.

koko

Re: Racism in America - How should we address it?

Post #130

Post by koko »

@Samuel


About 30 years ago we had a scandal in Minneapolis where several members of the police force were discovered to have been members of the KKK. Officially they were rooted out of the force. But here, we all know racism is and remains a big part of the force. A few years ago the department had an openly gay female chief. It was disclosed that many police secretly referred to her as "dyke" and other objectionable references. Bigotry remains a big part of the department whether you choose to believe it or not.

In my many years of living in NY I've know a great many cops, mostly black or Hispanic. Each complained of departmental racism. A Hispanic was driving his car peacefully when 2 white cops stopped him and started hassling him. Despite every provocation imaginable he would not retaliate with threats or bad mouthings. In frustration they demanded that he produced ID which he promptly did. Turns out the Latino driver was a police lieutenant. He could easily have gotten both into big trouble for what they did but he chose to let them go. Every black/Latino cop I know of can give you similar stories. Note that I am Hispanic and my nephew is a cop in NYC who has had numerous grevance complaints on file over systemic racism.

Mark Fuhrman proclaimed himself a hero. Los Angeles police have been portrayed as heroes on tv for decades. Other police forces throughout the land have similarly protrayed in such a rosy manner. Yet, those same forces have had to pay hundreds of millions dollars worth of damages for the crimes they have committed upon the public. LA paid $25 million for the Fuhrman crimes. NYC paid $45 million for the Central Park Five crimes committed against 5 innocent black men. How many more billions must be paid before you are going to be satisfied that all this is true and not something imagined?

Only people with an agenda would deny that there is no systemic racism. To say that there is no nationwide police racism is tantamount to saying the Gestapo was not antisemitic. No fairy tale could be more illusory.

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