Purpose of spotlight on racism

Debate and discussion on racism and related issues

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otseng
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Purpose of spotlight on racism

Post #1

Post by otseng »

The issue of racism is personally important for me and I also believe important for this country and the world.

This forum will contain debate and discussions anything related to racism. As usual, please uphold the rules and be civil and respectful.

In order to foster open discussion, there will be no censorship of different perspectives. Please respect the opinions and beliefs of other people.

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Re: Purpose of spotlight on racism

Post #2

Post by Quantrill »

otseng wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:00 pm The issue of racism is personally important for me and I also believe important for this country and the world.

This forum will contain debate and discussions anything related to racism. As usual, please uphold the rules and be civil and respectful.

In order to foster open discussion, there will be no censorship of different perspectives. Please respect the opinions and beliefs of other people.
And what does this mean?

Are you willing to allow views of racism that are contrary to your views? That you deem 'racist'?

Or are you just willing to discuss 'racism' based on what you call 'racism'?

You say you want open discussion. Do you? I have seen these types of threads before. As soon as one participates that is outside of the PC accepted view of racism, he is ostracized and eventually banned as a hate monger. Of course it is always done under the auspices of the rules of the forum.

Are you really wanting all opinions? Or are you just wanting to reinforce your own view.

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Re: Purpose of spotlight on racism

Post #3

Post by otseng »

Quantrill wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:33 pm You say you want open discussion. Do you?
As long as it's civil, any position is allowed. I'm even open to hearing from a white supremacist. As a matter of fact, I've tried reaching out to Richard Spencer to post here.

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Re: Purpose of spotlight on racism

Post #4

Post by Quantrill »

otseng wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:15 pm
As long as it's civil, any position is allowed. I'm even open to hearing from a white supremacist. As a matter of fact, I've tried reaching out to Richard Spencer to post here.
Well, that is easy to say. But...you control what is civil...correct? Pretty subjective, I would say.

My guess is you are open to hearing from what you call a 'white supremacist' as long as they are losing their argument. Once they start to gain the advantage in the discussion...they are flagged as hate mongers, and nazi's, and white evil supremacist's. And of course they are banned because of their refusal to follow the terms laid out in the forum. Or, the thread is shut down.

But, all the PC crowd get to say whatever hate they like to dish out. Why? Because it doesn't offend you that much. We are all bias. I recognize that. The PC crowd does not.

I don't mind participating in a 'race' related topic. I do mind when the forgone conclusion is already decided and if you don't contribute to that conclusion, you are banned. Because, you're just a radical white supremacist.

So, what conclusion are you looking for? This would help me avoid being banned. Not that I would change my position. But I would not participate. What conclusion are you looking for?

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Re: Purpose of spotlight on racism

Post #5

Post by otseng »

Quantrill wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:35 pmThis would help me avoid being banned.
Incivility and personal attacks is what will get you banned. A different position on racism will not get you banned.

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Re: Purpose of spotlight on racism

Post #6

Post by Zzyzx »

Quantrill wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:35 pm My guess is you are open to hearing from what you call a 'white supremacist' as long as they are losing their argument. Once they start to gain the advantage in the discussion...they are flagged as hate mongers, and nazi's, and white evil supremacist's. And of course they are banned because of their refusal to follow the terms laid out in the forum. Or, the thread is shut down.
Quite an active imagination.

The most common reason for banning is incivility -- that often takes the form of making personal remarks toward other members rather than discussing the topic of the thread. Some people have difficulty learning to discuss ideas -- and resort to making personal remarks or attacks. Such behavior does not go unnoticed.

What is the term for: "baseless or excessive suspicion of the motives of others"
.
Non-Theist

ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence

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Re: Purpose of spotlight on racism

Post #7

Post by Quantrill »

otseng wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:15 pm
Quantrill wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:33 pm You say you want open discussion. Do you?
As long as it's civil, any position is allowed. I'm even open to hearing from a white supremacist. As a matter of fact, I've tried reaching out to Richard Spencer to post here.
Interesting. Did you reach out to any black supremacist's? How about the NAACP...did you reach out to them? Why not?

It seems no one is interested in your topic of real discussion about race, until they have a 'white supremacist' to crucify.

You have said 'race' is important to you. Why?

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Re: Purpose of spotlight on racism

Post #8

Post by Quantrill »

No one is contributing to this subject of racism. The only participants are ones who respond to something I said.

Doesn't any one have some views of 'racism' they would like to discuss? Or would you just rather wait till someone who holds an opposing view says something so you can attack that.

I have given my view of America's problem with racism in another thread. I can't remember which one but I will find it and later edit this and direct any to it.

Later: See post #(10), in the thread 'Racism in America'.

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Re: Purpose of spotlight on racism

Post #9

Post by Purple Knight »

In this case it's not okay to have a different opinion.

We don't entertain the debate on whether murder is wrong or not if it involves the pro-murder side actually committing murder. Likewise, there is no need to entertain a debate on racism if it involves the pro-racism side committing racism, which it does intrinsically.

Let me clarify. You could theoretically have that anti-murder/pro-murder debate, but only if the murder side already acknowledged that their way was wrong in that they refrain from committing murder as a way to win the debate. Unfortunately, the racist commits his sin (racism) as an inherent part of the act of debating. He is uncivil to have or even defend that opinion. He breaks the rules here by doing what you invite him to do. Just as I cannot remain civil while having or defending the opinion that a particular person is a lying sack of purulent cat vomit, you cannot remain civil while having or defending the opinion that some people are lesser than others. It doesn't matter the phraseology.

You cannot pretend an inherently nasty thing can become nice through any sort of mental gymnastics.

I went through a time in my life when I thought racism was permissible because it is only an opinion. I was disabused of that notion, and rightly so. I'm familiar with the arguments, but arguments in this case are irrelevant because it's an issue that has a value judgment at its core and society cannot function without that value.

There is every opportunity for the correct side to simply lay down the law, which would lead to a better world, but they prefer to play tricks on people who didn't learn basic courtesy in order to keep those people rude and have a scapegoat. Racism would already be dying out if there was no pretending people have a right to be racist. Unfortunately, moral people the world over can't resist a chance to be even more moral by comparison and keep racism alive, even if they're not aware of what they're doing, or even if they don't even have that sort of a subconscious motive and genuinely think it's okay to have the debate.

It's not.

You can't wish away the bait-and-switch you play on people (intentional or not) by inviting a debate on whether or not Purple Knight is an evil lying sack of barf anymore than the pro side can wish away the fact that their opinion is uncivil by nature and a debate on that question puts them in violation of the rules by nature.

Now if they started that topic (Question for Debate: Is Purple Knight an Evil Lying Sack of Barf?) and got banned, it would be on them. If you started it, invited them to debate the pro side, and then banned them, that's on you.

Overall I like this forum and the mods here are fair and decent people beyond any other forum I've been on. I just see this as mean. The other side sees this as an attempt to crucify the opposition with good reason, even if that isn't the intent.

I'm only saying this because I believe there are no irredeemable people, and I believe everyone is trying to be good. Ultimately, when the less intelligent falter, it is usually a result of a more intelligent person misleading them. They hold that opinion because someone told them it was permissible to hold it. To the racist, this is how this goes down:

Anti-Racist: We are open to all views. Let's go ahead and have the debate, but keep it civil.
Raist: Well alright, if you said it was okay, I think that-
Anti-Racist: Bzzt, WRONG! Hahaha racism is uncivil by definition. You lose. Banned... for your uncivility of course. I was willing to have the debate, you see. Not only am I more moral than that person, I also have the intellectual high ground. He just wanted to throw insults.

In reality the anti-racist may not actually have that motivation, but in reality it is also true that he is often invited to play a game he has already lost: Defend an opinion that is uncivil by definition on civil terms.

I apologise that I defend people I disagree with.

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Re: Purpose of spotlight on racism

Post #10

Post by Purple Knight »

That said, I would be willing to debate the pro side as long as no one thinks I actually believe it and no one bans me for it. You know, since you appear to have banned everyone who actually believes the pro side.

I can point to some of my defence of the religious as evidence but if it turns into a witch hunt and a logical absolute identity property proof is required of me in order to prove what I believe and what I don't, I obviously can't do that.

The only answer I could give to such a thing would be that as far as what is in my head, the burden of proof is on you, so call Psi-Corps, otherwise you got nothin'.

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