Does systemic racism exist?

Debate and discussion on racism and related issues

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otseng
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Does systemic racism exist?

Post #1

Post by otseng »

Institutional racism (also known as systemic racism) is a form of racism that is embedded as normal practice within society or an organization. It can lead to such issues as discrimination in criminal justice, employment, housing, health care, political power, and education, among other issues.
"The collective failure of an organization to provide an appropriate and professional service to people because of their colour, culture, or ethnic origin. It can be seen or detected in processes, attitudes and behaviour that amount to discrimination through prejudice, ignorance, thoughtlessness, and racist stereotyping which disadvantage minority ethnic people."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_racism
Just as many Americans see no signs of “systemic racism” in our society. They feel no personal racial prejudice and point to civil rights legislation and court decisions that outlawed racial discrimination in government and the private economy. Although these Americans recognize that there are a few white supremacists in the country, their number is insignificant and that they are especially rare in our law enforcement agencies. In the rare instance when a law enforcement officer is found to be racist, that officer is normally disciplined and removed from the force.
https://calcoastnews.com/2020/09/the-my ... ic-racism/
I’ve had multiple conversations with white friends and acquaintances over the past several weeks and many of them have told me about their white friends, family members, neighbors and co-workers that don’t believe systemic racism is real. They thinks it’s a hoax, that it is a tool to blame white society for the ills of communities of color. They think we live in a colorblind society and that real racism died in the 1960s.
http://www.milwaukeeindependent.com/fea ... at-you-do/

For debate:

Does systemic/institutional racism exist in the US?

koko

Re: Does systemic racism exist?

Post #2

Post by koko »

Of course institutional racism exists. I have addressed it numerous times as shown below:


viewtopic.php?f=93&t=37612&p=1020572&hi ... m#p1020572

viewtopic.php?p=1018554#p1018554

viewtopic.php?p=1015912#p1015912



systemic racism:

viewtopic.php?p=1016187#p1016187



Notice that when I made these posts, certain people here denied BUT DID NOT ATTEMPT to refute any of these proofs.


In a related matter, note how politicians such as Trump and trouble makers like the Fox network and others such as some people here on this forum blindly accept the notion that black run institutions such as BLM are the ones causing troubles in society when, in fact, it is outside agitators such as in the events we saw in Richmond, VA:



viewtopic.php?p=1018476#p1018476


my comments:


This comes as no surprise since (as I have previously documented on other threads) it has happened all over the USA. Undercover cops, white supremacists, and internationals speaking in European/Slavic accents have been found committing much of the violence and falsely attributing it to BLM and Antifa. All designed to disguise the real culprits in all this trouble.



Not one person here could offer any proof to refute any of this.


Bottom line, the matter of institutional racism, of systemic racism, and of the exploitation of these phenomena by pols and others have been addressed by yours truly REPEATEDLY on this forum. Not only have I addressed these matters, I have posted links which prove each and every claim I make. Not one person here has offered even the slightest evidence that could attempt to refute these truths.

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Re: Does systemic racism exist?

Post #3

Post by AgnosticBoy »

[Replying to otseng in post #1]

Systemic racism does not exist in the US anymore. If systemic racism did exist then all black people would be suppressed and that of course is not the case.

Nowadays, many Blacks are suppressing themselves and tend to use racism as an excuse.

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Re: Does systemic racism exist?

Post #4

Post by Bust Nak »

AgnosticBoy wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:58 am If systemic racism did exist then all black people would be suppressed.
Defend this claim. Why this and not "If systemic racism did exist then all black people would be at a disadvantage in comparison with white people?"

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Re: Does systemic racism exist?

Post #5

Post by Mithrae »

Bust Nak wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:26 am
AgnosticBoy wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:58 am If systemic racism did exist then all black people would be suppressed.
Defend this claim. Why this and not "If systemic racism did exist then all black people would be at a disadvantage in comparison with white people?"
Or "...black people on average/in general would be disadvantaged." There were some prosperous black slaveowners in the American South prior to the Civil War, so according to AgnosticBoy's logic systemic racism must not have existed even then? :?

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Re: Does systemic racism exist?

Post #6

Post by Mithrae »

otseng wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:23 am Does systemic/institutional racism exist in the US?
I decided to take a sceptical approach to that question a few months ago after the killing of George Floyd, and I think that someone really determined not to acknowledge it would be able to persuade themselves that most of the disadvantages and inequalities affecting black and Latino Americans are somehow their own fault, that they are "suppressing themselves," while trivializing or simply ignoring the disparities which can't be explained away. Public overt bigotry is relatively uncommon these days. Some comments made in 1981 by Lee Atwater - adviser to US presidents Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush and later chairman of the Republican National Committee - seem particularly relevant to the questions of why and how 'systemic racism' has become more covert over the decades:
  • Atwater: As to the whole Southern strategy that Harry Dent and others put together in 1968, opposition to the Voting Rights Act would have been a central part of keeping the South. Now [Reagan] doesn't have to do that. All you have to do to keep the South is for Reagan to run in place on the issues he's campaigned on since 1964 [...] and that's fiscal conservatism, balancing the budget, cut taxes, you know, the whole cluster...

    Questioner: But the fact is, isn't it, that Reagan does get to the Wallace voter and to the racist side of the Wallace voter by doing away with legal services, by cutting down on food stamps?

    Atwater: Y'all don't quote me on this. You start out in 1954 by saying, "Nigger, nigger, nigger." By 1968 you can't say "nigger"—that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me—because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "Nigger, nigger."
But was Atwater correct that driving it underground into more coded language and abstract policies was really doing away with the racial problem? Arguably one of if not the biggest smoking gun for the prevalence of racism in American society and systems is the fact that in the wake of the first black presidency, suddenly there was a political advantage to be gained from returning to the kind of language and rhetoric of... well, not quite the 50s, but certainly more racially inflammatory than anything which would have been viable for a president in the 90s or 2000s!

And for 2020, on the other side you've got "clean and articulate" Biden :shock:

koko

Re: Does systemic racism exist?

Post #7

Post by koko »

otseng wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:23 am
For debate:

Does systemic/institutional racism exist in the US?

Please post your views on the subject. Kindly provide links with proofs to support your position on the issue(s).

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Re: Does systemic racism exist?

Post #8

Post by AgnosticBoy »

Bust Nak wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:26 am
AgnosticBoy wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:58 am If systemic racism did exist then all black people would be suppressed.
Defend this claim. Why this and not "If systemic racism did exist then all black people would be at a disadvantage in comparison with white people?"
That's an absolute claim.

Not all Blacks are more disadvantaged than Whites. Focus on those Blacks and how they got there rather than focusing on those in poverty. Then perhaps you'll see my point about systemic racism not existing.

When a successful Black person tells me they started out poor but used EDUCATION to get to their success, then I ask myself why can't all Blacks do the same? Or is it just that many don't want to and instead want to make excuses?

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Re: Does systemic racism exist?

Post #9

Post by Bust Nak »

[Replying to AgnosticBoy in post #8]

Wait, was that supposed to be a defend of the claim "If systemic racism did exist then all black people would be suppressed?" That a person found success doesn't mean they were not disadvantaged.

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Re: Does systemic racism exist?

Post #10

Post by AgnosticBoy »

Bust Nak wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:09 am [Replying to AgnosticBoy in post #8]

Wait, was that supposed to be a defend of the claim "If systemic racism did exist then all black people would be suppressed?" That a person found success doesn't mean they were not disadvantaged.
Disadvantaged does not mean racism. Blacks have some disadvantages AND advantages over Whites.

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