Does systemic racism exist?

Debate and discussion on racism and related issues

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otseng
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Does systemic racism exist?

Post #1

Post by otseng »

Institutional racism (also known as systemic racism) is a form of racism that is embedded as normal practice within society or an organization. It can lead to such issues as discrimination in criminal justice, employment, housing, health care, political power, and education, among other issues.
"The collective failure of an organization to provide an appropriate and professional service to people because of their colour, culture, or ethnic origin. It can be seen or detected in processes, attitudes and behaviour that amount to discrimination through prejudice, ignorance, thoughtlessness, and racist stereotyping which disadvantage minority ethnic people."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_racism
Just as many Americans see no signs of “systemic racism” in our society. They feel no personal racial prejudice and point to civil rights legislation and court decisions that outlawed racial discrimination in government and the private economy. Although these Americans recognize that there are a few white supremacists in the country, their number is insignificant and that they are especially rare in our law enforcement agencies. In the rare instance when a law enforcement officer is found to be racist, that officer is normally disciplined and removed from the force.
https://calcoastnews.com/2020/09/the-my ... ic-racism/
I’ve had multiple conversations with white friends and acquaintances over the past several weeks and many of them have told me about their white friends, family members, neighbors and co-workers that don’t believe systemic racism is real. They thinks it’s a hoax, that it is a tool to blame white society for the ills of communities of color. They think we live in a colorblind society and that real racism died in the 1960s.
http://www.milwaukeeindependent.com/fea ... at-you-do/

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Does systemic/institutional racism exist in the US?

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AgnosticBoy
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Re: Does systemic racism exist?

Post #21

Post by AgnosticBoy »

[Replying to otseng in post #20]

No one is keeping blacks away from higher education and voting, but yet many blacks choose to remain uneducated and not vote.

koko

Re: Does systemic racism exist?

Post #22

Post by koko »

George Floyd's three years of college didn't do him any good. Same with me = 4 years of college, 3 years of law school and I still live in the ghetto.

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Re: Does systemic racism exist?

Post #23

Post by AgnosticBoy »

koko wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:07 pm George Floyd's three years of college didn't do him any good. Same with me = 4 years of college, 3 years of law school and I still live in the ghetto.
Because you choose not to go back to school. George Floyd chose to drop out.

koko

Re: Does systemic racism exist?

Post #24

Post by koko »

AgnosticBoy wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:27 pm
koko wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:07 pm George Floyd's three years of college didn't do him any good. Same with me = 4 years of college, 3 years of law school and I still live in the ghetto.
Because you choose not to go back to school. George Floyd chose to drop out.


Seven years of post high school education is more than enough for most people. Besides, I couldn't afford to go to more school.

Floyd dropped out but still had more education than most whites. A lot good that did for him.

Whatever the problem, education is NOT the solution.

koko

Re: Does systemic racism exist?

Post #25

Post by koko »

otseng wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:10 pm
koko wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:58 am Please post your views on the subject. Kindly provide links with proofs to support your position on the issue(s).
I also believe systemic racism exists. Recently, I was surprised to hear from a friend that said systemic racism does not exist. To be honest, that was the first time I've ever heard someone that I know that has made such a statement. However, we did not get any chance to really debate the issue, so want to discuss it more in depth here with everyone else.

And what are your solutions to this problem?

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Re: Does systemic racism exist?

Post #26

Post by Bust Nak »

AgnosticBoy wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:26 pm Like I said before, in a racist system, Blacks could not live successful lives. Many Blacks live successfully, therefore there is no racist system.
Saying it again doesn't help, I tasked you with justifying the premise "that in a racist system, Blacks could not live successful lives."
You made an absolute claim earlier when you said ALL Blacks are disadvantaged compared to Whites.
No, my post history will show that I've made no such claim. Instead I asked you why not "If systemic racism did exist then all black people would be at a disadvantage in comparison with white people?"
Will you at least admit that some Blacks are at a better advantage than poor Whites or even uneducated Whites? Why is that so hard to acknowledge?!
First of all, it's irrelevant to my point. But since you asked, I will demonstrate that it's not hard to acknowledge at all. Some blacks are at a better advantage then some whites.

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Re: Does systemic racism exist?

Post #27

Post by otseng »

Bust Nak wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:13 pm Pointing out that racism is still a problem doesn't equate to living in pre-1960. There has been lots of progress since then, but that doesn't mean there is no systemic problems today.
I agree with this. There has been progress made and systemic racism has been worse in the past, but it still exists. I'll also add that systemic racism is not the only culprit of blacks being disadvantaged. There are other reasons also, so one cannot only put the blame of police brutality, poverty, fatherlessness, crime, drugs, etc on systemic racism. And it's also possible for blacks to overcome systemic racism and be successful. Not all blacks are doomed in life because of systemic racism. But, as a whole, blacks are disadvantaged as compared to whites because of structures and ideologies that exist in the US.

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Re: Does systemic racism exist?

Post #28

Post by otseng »

koko wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:58 pm And what are your solutions to this problem?
Addressing racism in general would be a good start.
otseng wrote: Sat May 30, 2020 4:58 pm
Elijah John wrote: Sat May 30, 2020 7:02 am What do you think is the answer, Otseng? How should we address it? And while we're searching for the answer to racism in America, shouldn't we also seek to address the problem of anarchy in America?
What people need to do first is confession and repentance for all our sins. Sins of violence, racism, theft, murder, lying, complacency, indifference, injustice, etc. It is our hearts prone to evil that is the root of all our problems.

We all need to next learn to respect others. People are all to be treated with respect, no matter what their race or background. We should be allowed to be different and not only extend respect to people like us. We should respect individuals and their property. People looting and burning down buildings is not respecting others.

Jesus commands us to love our enemies. We need to be commanded to do this because we by nature will not do this. We need to forgive others, esp those that have done wrong.

We need to learn to listen to and understand each other. Those who live in the suburbs most likely do not know what it's like to live in the inner city. If we truly understand the struggles they are going through, we can hopefully be less judgmental.

We need to value truth and not continually practice deceit. The police are not completely truthful. Those arrested are not completely truthful. So, nobody believes the other that they might be actually saying the truth.

We need to stop fiscal policies where it is just kicking the can down the road. In the short term, people might be off better, but in the long run, it will destroy.

We need to stop these insane monetary policies where it is getting the rich richer and the poor poorer. George Floyd ultimately died for the crime of using a counterfeit twenty. Meanwhile, the Fed is counterfeiting/printing trillions with most all of it ending up with those close to the Fed and nobody bats an eye.

koko

Re: Does systemic racism exist?

Post #29

Post by koko »

George Floyd ultimately died for the crime of using a counterfeit twenty.

Correction: Floyd died because he was murdered by a cop.

Counterfeit $20 bills have been circulating in the Twin Cities for many years due to organized criminals who printed fake money and circulated it all over the area. A white neighbor of mine tried to make a purchase with one but it was rejected. The cashier gave him the bill back but he was not arrested. That's the normal course. Had Floyd been white that's the course that would have been followed. In fact, this is the first time I've seen anyone arrested locally for using a counterfeit bill.

Same thing with the Eric Garner murder in Brooklyn, NY (my original home town). Mind you, I worked for the Treasury Department for many years. The IRS and NYS Dept of Finance & Taxation worked in cooperation in order to stop people from selling stuff on the streets. When we found someone doing it illegally and not paying taxes we issued summonses to stop the activity. We did not arrest anyone. Somehow, Garner was arrested, choked to death by a white cop, and then the media and right wingers got angry over the fact that people protested over the death of a person who was harmless. Had he been white he would not have been arrested. The solution here is to treat everyone alike. As I said above, I as a tax enforcement agent worked on numerous cases like his. Never once did I have anyone arrested. Just issue the summons, make him pay his taxes, and get on with your job. These white cops need to stop targetting and killing people just because they are black. Furthermore, people need to stop pretending this type of targetting and murder are not happening.

I have said enough times on this forum that it is the lack of justice that causes disorder. Our Founding Fathers believed in that concept and created this country on that principle. A principle that originated in the Bible in Isaiah 59:8. Create justice, treat everyone alike, and then we will have order in society.

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Re: Does systemic racism exist?

Post #30

Post by AgnosticBoy »

koko wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:07 pm George Floyd's three years of college didn't do him any good. Same with me = 4 years of college, 3 years of law school and I still live in the ghetto.
I'd bet you an education will get you out of the ghetto faster than Welfare and food stamps (EBT). How do you feel about that??

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