Jesus is God - Psalm 91

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Wootah
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Jesus is God - Psalm 91

Post #1

Post by Wootah »

Old Testament verse 4 talks of God covering you with feathers and finding refuge under his wings:
Psalm 91
1 Whoever dwells in the shelter of the Most High
will rest in the shadow of the Almighty.[a]
2 I will say of the Lord, “He is my refuge and my fortress,
my God, in whom I trust.”

3 Surely he will save you
from the fowler’s snare
and from the deadly pestilence.
4 He will cover you with his feathers,
and under his wings you will find refuge;
Jesus knows this and would never violate the shema but then Jesus goes and says:
Matthew 23:37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’[c]”
What no. Jesus come on. You're confusing me. Are you claiming to be God by using the same imagery.

Look at all these old testament verses where God wants us under His wings: https://www.openbible.info/topics/under_his_wings
Psalm 91:4 ESV / 93 helpful votes
He will cover you with his pinions, and under his wings you will find refuge; his faithfulness is a shield and buckler.

Psalm 91:1-16 ESV / 81 helpful votes
He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will abide in the shadow of the Almighty. I will say to the Lord, “My refuge and my fortress, my God, in whom I trust.” For he will deliver you from the snare of the fowler and from the deadly pestilence. He will cover you with his pinions, and under his wings you will find refuge; his faithfulness is a shield and buckler. You will not fear the terror of the night, nor the arrow that flies by day, ...

Ruth 2:12 ESV / 53 helpful votes
The Lord repay you for what you have done, and a full reward be given you by the Lord, the God of Israel, under whose wings you have come to take refuge!”

Psalm 17:8 ESV / 38 helpful votes
Keep me as the apple of your eye; hide me in the shadow of your wings,

Psalm 57:1 ESV / 30 helpful votes
To the choirmaster: according to Do Not Destroy. A Miktam of David, when he fled from Saul, in the cave. Be merciful to me, O God, be merciful to me, for in you my soul takes refuge; in the shadow of your wings I will take refuge, till the storms of destruction pass by.

Isaiah 40:31 ESV / 28 helpful votes
But they who wait for the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings like eagles; they shall run and not be weary; they shall walk and not faint.

Psalm 36:7 ESV / 27 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
How precious is your steadfast love, O God! The children of mankind take refuge in the shadow of your wings.

Psalm 63:7 ESV / 26 helpful votes
For you have been my help, and in the shadow of your wings I will sing for joy.

Deuteronomy 32:11 ESV / 26 helpful votes
Like an eagle that stirs up its nest, that flutters over its young, spreading out its wings, catching them, bearing them on its pinions,

Exodus 19:4 ESV / 22 helpful votes
You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles' wings and brought you to myself.

Psalm 91:1 ESV / 20 helpful votes
He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will abide in the shadow of the Almighty.

Psalm 61:4 ESV / 20 helpful votes
Let me dwell in your tent forever! Let me take refuge under the shelter of your wings! Selah
How could Jesus fowl this one up?
Did he not know the Old Testament?

Look at Jesus words, 'how often I have longed to gather your children together". Does he mean just the last couple of years of ministry? Does he mean across history?
But he says just before, "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you". He is implying across history the prophets are and were his attempt to draw them back to himself.

Is this just another example of Jesus connecting himself as YHWH?

I await rebuttals.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: Jesus is God - Psalm 91

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Post by TRANSPONDER »

The psalm is assuring the Hebrews that God will be looking out for them and protecting them.

The Matthew passage is suggesting that, because they rejected Jesus, who wanted to bring them together under his guidance and protection, they would suffer the consequences.

Matthew has this tacked on the end of the 'great denunciation' in the Temple. We find this in Luke 13 34 and in a quite different context. This (as is the case with much of this material he had in common with Matthew) is part of the teachings and events on the journey from Galilee to Jerusalem (for Holy Week). Luke's great denunciation, incidentally, is also in a different place; 11. 37 in the Pharisee's house on the journey to Jerusalem in the context of the debate about ritual cleanliness.

Mark 7 has the context of the debate about cleanliness, but that appears a lot earlier between the feeding of either five or four thousand. But I know of no 'great denunciation' in Mark. That, together with the passage about Jesus' rejected protection and particularly the 'Sermon on the Mount' material common to Matthew and Luke, is (I suggest) from a (now lost) non - gospel document or writing which they both used in different ways, which is why this material is all over the place in the gospels.

So the idea of this feathery protection does derive from the OT, but how much credence it should be given, I leave to others to decide.

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Re: Jesus is God - Psalm 91

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Post by 1213 »

Wootah wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:45 am ...
What no. Jesus come on. You're confusing me. Are you claiming to be God by using the same imagery....
Is this just another example of Jesus connecting himself as YHWH?
...
Perhaps it is because according to the Bible Jesus is the image of God?

… is the image of the invisible God. ..
Colossians 1:14-16

But, luckily Jesus said that there is only one true God that is greater than him, so there should be no misunderstanding.

This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
John 17:3

the Father is greater than I.
John 14:28

And also Paul confirms that, so it should be easy to see the correct meaning in the Bible.

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Timothy 2:5

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Re: Jesus is God - Psalm 91

Post #4

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to 1213 in post #3]

All humans are in the image of God, Jesus is the perfect image of that. How did he do that without being God?
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Re: Jesus is God - Psalm 91

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[Replying to Wootah in post #1]

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Re: Jesus is God - Psalm 91

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Post by 1213 »

Wootah wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 10:16 pm [Replying to 1213 in post #3]

All humans are in the image of God, Jesus is the perfect image of that. How did he do that without being God?
By God's help?

I can of myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is righteous; because I don't seek my own will, but the will of my Father who sent me.
John 5:30

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Re: Jesus is God - Psalm 91

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Post by PinSeeker »

1213 wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:33 pm
Wootah wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 10:16 pm [Replying to 1213 in post #3]

All humans are in the image of God, Jesus is the perfect image of that. How did he do that without being God?
By God's help?

I can of myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is righteous; because I don't seek my own will, but the will of my Father who sent me.
John 5:30
Well, Jesus needed no help, but only the Father's will. That is the only sense in which the Father is "greater."

Grace and peace to you.

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Re: Jesus is God - Psalm 91

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Post by Wootah »

[Replying to 1213 in post #3]

Great so you quote and agree that the Father is greater than Jesus and we both know Jesus knows his Bible. So his quote in Matthew is quite the blasphemy according to you?

Quick question: Is Joe Biden greater than you? Is that because of his position as President or because the substance of what he is is greater than you or both?
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Re: Jesus is God - Psalm 91

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Post by 1213 »

Wootah wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:32 pm Great so you quote and agree that the Father is greater than Jesus and we both know Jesus knows his Bible. So his quote in Matthew is quite the blasphemy according to you?
I don't think it is.
Wootah wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:32 pmQuick question: Is Joe Biden greater than you?...
I don't think so. :D

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Re: Jesus is God - Psalm 91

Post #10

Post by Wootah »

1213 wrote: Wed Sep 01, 2021 4:46 pm
Wootah wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:32 pm Great so you quote and agree that the Father is greater than Jesus and we both know Jesus knows his Bible. So his quote in Matthew is quite the blasphemy according to you?
I don't think it is.
Wootah wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:32 pmQuick question: Is Joe Biden greater than you?...
I don't think so. :D
Why don't you think it is?

It's not a joke about Biden. Why don't you think he is greater than you? What evidence do you have to support the idea that he isn't greater than you?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826

Looking for head to head debates, especially on contradictions or the Trinity. PM me your topic.

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