Do animals have spirit?

[Inquirer]

I have two Italian Greyhounds, here's a picture of them:

Are these animals just lumps of matter or is there something more to them? Is it only people that are not lumps of matter?

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to Inquirer in post #1]

For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

I have had dogs (large and small) that would never hesitate to jump between me and anything dangerous to me.

My dogs and cat are "rescues." Been rescued myself a few times.

So we're pretty much equals.

[Miles]

I agree, and specifically there is scripture stating that animals do have spirit:

Who knows if the human spirit rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?

This is clearly revealing that animals have a spirit, mysterious and profound though that idea is to us.

So, what is this religious "spirit" Christians talk about? How about a good definition and cogent evidence of its existence.


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I think you can get a thousand answers and rightly so given the many aspects. But look, the original reference (let's start from there) is Genesis 1:2 when the ruach Elohim (/spirit of God) is hovering over the waters. It's essentially a wind / breath. Hence earlier posts that define it as the breath of life. (Not just for humans and animals but plants and other lifeforms too, all of which have a rhythm, or give and take, that breathing represents.)

If you want my personal opinion, it's helpful to think of spirit as, say, the spirit of an age. As a movement (like Me Too). As something that can sweep by us, like a wind, and in the process sweep us up. It's something we can get caught up and participate in. That we can give our power to. With a certain value or affirmation at its core. (Just like Me Too which affirms everyone's right not to be harassed or worse by those with power.)

Further, I would argue the Spirit (of God) is that which affirms life in all its forms. To be in the Spirit is to focus all one's efforts to that end.

Thanks for your honest effort, but fortunately I think you've left more needing explanation than has been cleared up.


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[JehovahsWitness]

I have two Italian Greyhounds, here's a picture of them:

Are these animals just lumps of matter or is there something more to them? Is it only people that are not lumps of matter?

They are very cute doggies.

If we are to discuss whether they have souls or not, we must first establish what "soul" means.

Biblically neither people nor animals HAVE a soul (as if a soul is a seperate entity) animals and humans ARE souls

A SOUL: A soul is a flesh and blood physical living breathing creature.

SPIRIT: The active force/power/energy that animates all living things

Did God create a human body and then put a soul inside him?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 06#p889006

Is the soul immortal?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 39#p940639

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

SOULS, SPIRIT and ... THE CONDITION OF THE DEAD

[Miles]

Biblically neither people nor animals HAVE a soul (as if a soul is a seperate entity) animals and humans ARE souls

A SOUL: A soul is a flesh and blood physical living breathing creature.

SPIRIT: The active force/power/energy that animates all living things

A SOUL: A flesh and blood physical living breathing creature.

................................




A SPIRIT: The active force/power/energy that animates all living things.
....................
................................................. FOOD



.

[JehovahsWitness]

Biblically neither people nor animals HAVE a soul (as if a soul is a seperate entity) animals and humans ARE souls

A SOUL: A soul is a flesh and blood physical living breathing creature.

SPIRIT: The active force/power/energy that animates all living things

A SOUL: A flesh and blood physical living breathing creature.

................................




A SPIRIT: The active force/power/energy that animates all living things.
....................
................................................. FOOD



.

I know what I said, but thank you for repeating it. If you have a challenge, objection or comment, do you think you are able to communicate that in actual words? Unless you believe a SPIDER is not alive or that an hamburger is a creature, I fail to see what point you are making with the pictures.

JW

[JehovahsWitness]

According to the bible, all living things are alive because they have the force for life which comes from God (see Psalms 36:9).

Should we assume this includes trees. weeds, and mushrooms?

Are they not alive ? Yes that includes trees, weeds and mushrooms.

All living breathing creatures have the breath of life (Gods active force) in them and are thus different from inanimate objects.

So what of those creatures that don't breath oxygen---don't require oxygen? No breath of life for them?

All animals "breath" (respire) as in have cells that undergo a chemical process of conversion of so they have energy to live ; whether they do that parasitically or directly. In any case a living organism that does not breath/respire is not a soul.

More than that, animals (albeit instinctively) display various qualities such as a natural sense of loyalty , courage, power, a strong tendence to protect their young, even sense of playfulness and a natural curiosity, that reflect their Creator.

Even sponges, coral, and jellyfish?

Sponges and coral might biblically classify as "plants" - but jellyfish are apparently "smarter" than many think. .. even without a brain!

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Inquirer in post #1]
Animals have the same "spirit" that humans have. They are souls, just as humans are, and their spirits are the breath of life that God provides for them so that they live, just as we do. Neither animals nor humans have souls....they ARE souls, and the spirit means the breath of life.

[Miles]

Biblically neither people nor animals HAVE a soul (as if a soul is a seperate entity) animals and humans ARE souls

A SOUL: A soul is a flesh and blood physical living breathing creature.

SPIRIT: The active force/power/energy that animates all living things

A SOUL: A flesh and blood physical living breathing creature.

................................




A SPIRIT: The active force/power/energy that animates all living things.
....................
................................................. FOOD



.

I know what I said, but thank you for repeating it. If you have a challenge, objection or comment, do you think you are able to communicate that in actual words? Unless you believe a SPIDER is not alive or that an hamburger is a creature, I fail to see what point you are making with the pictures.

JW

Just making sure we are all on the same page. That souls would include all creatures, even insects and arachnids. Having been told that souls only inhabit humans, it's something I've never heard of before. And that as I understand your statement about the active force/power/energy that animates all living things, to my way of thinking spirit would most likely refer to food.

That's all.


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[JehovahsWitness]

... That souls would include all creatures, even insects and arachnids. Having been told that souls only inhabit humans, it's something I've never heard of before.

Well it seems as if we dont know everything then, do we?

... And that as I understand your statement about the active force/power/energy that animates all living things, to my way of thinking spirit would most likely refer to food.

No we are not animated by food, we are energized by it. If there is any confusion stuff food into a corpes and see if it comes to life. Biblically, the spirit is that which causes us to live. Food air and water keep us alive /sustain our lives but they can't make us live.

[Difflugia]

Just making sure we are all on the same page. That souls would include all creatures, even insects and arachnids.

Rabbinic discussions have generally settled on vertebrates being nephesh chayyim, but insects and other invertebrates aren't.

Having been told that souls only inhabit humans, it's something I've never heard of before.

That's the distinction between monism and dualism. Monism is the idea that a person (or animal, or whatever) is a unified, inseparable whole. Dualism means that the body and soul or spirit, though combined, are separable. This affects Christianity because the Old Testament is predominantly (though not exclusively) monistic, but the New Testament is predominantly (but again, not exclusively) dualistic.

An interesting exercise is to use a Hebrew concordance to find verses containing the Hebrew word נֶ֔פֶשׁ (nephesh), then note whether the language is broadly of being a soul or of having one.

An overall pattern is that in the earliest books of the Pentateuch, Genesis, Exodus, and Numbers, nephesh is overwhelmingly monistic and synonymous with words like "person" or "being." In Leviticus, we just begin to see a hint of dualistic distinction. That's where we have the first prohibition against eating blood and 17:11 tells us that it's because "the nephesh of the flesh is in the blood."

Deuteronomy shows a big shift in language. It's about half-and-half "being" and "having." While much of the language is similar to (and likely patterned on) wording in Genesis and Exodus, nephesh regularly takes on such meanings as "life" and "mind" that are components of one's being, rather than the totality of it. Deuteronomy 6:5 is a prime example, where Israelites are told to "love Yahweh your god with your entire heart, your entire nephesh, and your entire strength."

As the Deuteronomistic history progresses through the books of Samuel and into Kings, the Deuteronomist relies less and less on earlier documents and nephesh becomes overwhelmingly dualistic, appearing most often in the form of a possessive (i.e. נַפְשִׁי, "my soul").

And that as I understand your statement about the active force/power/energy that animates all living things, to my way of thinking spirit would most likely refer to food.

I never thought of it that way. In my mind's eye from now on, "the spirit" is glucose.