Do God's Morals Change?

[POI]

The Bible states:

"A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death."

Is this law still binding for anyone today? If so, are such laws ever being carried out?

Or, is it no longer binding for anyone? And if not, why is it no longer binding? And furthermore, if it is no longer binding for anyone, who's to say God's law will not change again someday?

[POI]

This law is not kept by anyone today and should not be because Christ did away with the law of Moses.

1) The Ten Commandments were given as a portion of the law of Moses, should we ignore those now too?
2) Where does the Bible clearly say this law is no longer to be kept?
3) Regardless, why was this ever a law for anyone in the first place?
4) As a law abiding citizen, would you have lit the match, or instruct someone else to do it?

Those laws have always been binding on all people and always will be. It will not change. But laws that were only binding on Jews can be done away with as they were never binding on gentiles anyway. Christ set even Jews free from the laws.

Why would god apply special morals to a specific group, based upon their race alone? And why did God change it later?

[tam]

Peace to you all,

I have not read through the responses given so far, so I apologize if anything I post has already been said.

The Bible states:

"A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death."

Is this law still binding for anyone today? If so, are such laws ever being carried out?

Or, is it no longer binding for anyone? And if not, why is it no longer binding?

I do not know what some people in various forms of Judaism might say about this; you would have to ask them if they believe this law is still binding (though I expect most do not, because I do not expect this happens much, if at all, but you would have to ask them their reasons). The law given to Israel was not binding for anyone outside of Israel, of course.

As for a Christian (even if descended from literal Israel):

A Christian is under Christ. The law covenant was mediated through Moses. The new covenant is mediated through Christ, and we are to listen to Him.

When a woman was brought to Him because she had committed adultery, Christ did not stone her (and His words prevented anyone else from stoning her as well). Instead, Christ - who always does what pleases His Father - showed that woman MERCY and FORGAVE her. He SAVED her life. He did not SACRIFICE her life. We who belong to Him are to do the same.

He did not break the law in showing her mercy. From the understanding I have received from Him, mercy was always permissible (and even preferred). Someone will say that is not written, but it is:

"I desire mercy, not sacrifice." Hosea 6:6 <- Christ emphasized this in both word and deed.


And as for the laws as written in the OT, there are a couple of things to keep in mind:

1 - the lying pen of the scribes has handled the law falsely (Jeremiah 8:8)

2 - Some laws were given by Moses because the hearts of the people were hard. But those laws did not always reflect what was true from the beginning. (Mark 10:5; Matt 19:8)

And furthermore, if it is no longer binding for anyone, who's to say God's law will not change again someday?

God's will did not change to begin with. He had made allowances (or had allowed allowances to BE made) for the people. Keep in mind also the lying pen of the scribes that handled the LAW falsely. (Keep in mind that even in our time, laws can change according to circumstances... if the point of a law is to keep people safe, then laws might be changed or added during dangerous times, but the purpose is the same).

On top of those points (and most important): the written law that was given to Israel through Moses was a tutor leading to Christ. Once Christ came, the people were to listen to HIM> It is Christ who is the Truth; Christ who is the Image and Word of God; Christ who reveals God to us as God truly is; and Christ who shows us what God truly desires. Christ is the One who knows and teaches us what is true.


Love has always been the law that is from God, from the beginning. For example, there is no law against love (how could that be unless love is at the top of the list?); love covers over a multitude of sin (sin = wrongdoing, error); the entire prophets and law hang on the first two commandments which are about how to love God and neighbor, and Christ added to love also your enemies (as well as to love one another as He has loved us). Mercy - which God desires - comes from love. Forgiveness - which Christ gave and we are to give as well - comes from love.

Truth also comes from love (just as Christ/the Truth comes from God, who is Love).




Peace again to you, and to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[bjs1]

The Bible states:

"A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death."

Is this law still binding for anyone today? If so, are such laws ever being carried out?

Or, is it no longer binding for anyone? And if not, why is it no longer binding? And furthermore, if it is no longer binding for anyone, who's to say God's law will not change again someday?

This was a civil law designed specifically for Israel, the only Theocracy in history. Christians are not under the law (see the book of Galatians). While this law can point us to the underlying lesson about God’s unchanging morals (the importance of sexual ethics and the rejection of sexual immorality), Christians do not enforce the civil punishments of the Old Testament law. You would have to ask Orthodox Jews, who say that they are under the law, if they think that this is binding today.

God’s laws absolutely will change again. Pretty much from the beginning Christians have held that Christ will return and, as with his first coming, that will fundamentally change our reality, or relationship to the law, and the way God’s unchanging morality is played out in our new lives.

[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to POI in post #51]

I am not going to answer all these questions as it is not necessary to understand the topic.

If you look into Judaism and Noahides that they teach, you will see that the Laws are only for the Jews. The topic is not about why would God choose the Jews.

Noahidism (/ˈnoʊəhaɪdɪzəm/) or Noachidism (/ˈnoʊəxaɪdɪzəm/) is a monotheistic Jewish religious movement based upon the Seven Laws of Noah and their traditional interpretations within Orthodox Judaism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noahidism ... 20Judaism.

In Moses' law you could divorce for pretty much any reason. Jesus says, no.

“And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, ‘Is it lawful to divorce one’s wife for any cause?’ He answered, ‘Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.” They said to him, ‘Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?’ He said to them, ‘Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.’”

-Matthew 19:3–9

Hebrews 9:15-17

Therefore, he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred which redeems them from the transgressions under the first covenant. For where a will (or “testament”) is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established. For a will takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive.

There is no point into going into a bible study. If you want to know more - https://www.catholic.com/magazine/onlin ... ses-or-not

[brunumb]

[Replying to bjs1 in post #53]

I don't understand. If there is objective morality defined by God, why have different sets of laws for different people? If it is because some are not based on morality, then what is their purpose?

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to tam in post #52

When a woman was brought to Him because she had committed adultery, Christ did not stone her (and His words prevented anyone else from stoning her as well). Instead, Christ - who always does what pleases His Father - showed that woman MERCY and FORGAVE her. He SAVED her life. He did not SACRIFICE her life. We who belong to Him are to do the same.

He did not break the law in showing her mercy.

Actually, he did:

"If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman; so you shall purge the evil from Israel." (Deuteronomy 22:22)

From the understanding I have received from Him, mercy was always permissible (and even preferred).

Actually, it wasn't:

"And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot." (Deut. 19:21)

Someone will say that is not written, but it is:

"I desire mercy, not sacrifice." Hosea 6:6 <- Christ emphasized this in both word and deed.

That refers to blood sacrifice being unnecessary to atone for sin.

https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/vi ... hout-blood

And as for the laws as written in the OT, there are a couple of things to keep in mind:

1 - the lying pen of the scribes has handled the law falsely (Jeremiah 8:8)

viewtopic.php?t=39330

2 - Some laws were given by Moses because the hearts of the people were hard. But those laws did not always reflect what was true from the beginning. (Mark 10:5; Matt 19:8)

"What was true from the beginning" didn't matter; what mattered was what Moses was telling them then:

"In the fortieth year, on the first day of the eleventh month, Moses proclaimed to the Israelites all that the LORD had commanded him concerning them." (Dt. 1:3)

"Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you." (Dt. 4:2)

"When thou shalt hearken to the voice of the Lord thy God, to keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do that which is right in the eyes of the Lord thy God." (Dt. 13:18)

[POI]

This was a civil law designed specifically for Israel, the only Theocracy in history.

Okay? Does this theocracy still abide by this law? If not, why not? And why would god EVER order the burning of people? Does he like the torture to start before they are sent to hell?

God’s laws absolutely will change again. Pretty much from the beginning Christians have held that Christ will return and, as with his first coming, that will fundamentally change our reality, or relationship to the law, and the way God’s unchanging morality is played out in our new lives.

So do god's morals change, or ours?

[POI]

If you look into Judaism and Noahides that they teach, you will see that the Laws are only for the Jews. The topic is not about why would God choose the Jews.

So I'm not allowed to respond or comment here; because it's not part of the OP topic? That's okay. I already created a new topic anyways...

In Moses' law you could divorce for pretty much any reason. Jesus says, no.

Did Moses get his 'moral code' from the same 'deity family', or not?

Therefore, he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred which redeems them from the transgressions under the first covenant. For where a will (or “testament”) is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established. For a will takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive.

There is no point into going into a bible study. If you want to know more - https://www.catholic.com/magazine/onlin ... ses-or-not

I don't really see where virtually anything was answered? Would you mind?

1) The Ten Commandments were given as a portion of the law of Moses, should we ignore those now too?
2) Where does the Bible clearly say this law is no longer to be kept?
3) Regardless, why was this ever a law for anyone in the first place?
4) As a law abiding citizen, would you have lit the match, or instruct someone else to do it?

[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to POI in post #58]

I already explained in my first post that the 10 commandments are eternal, which is why Catholics keep them, except the sabbath is changed to the Lord's day.

2) Where does the Bible clearly say this law is no longer to be kept?

Romans 7:6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.

There are many more, but I am not here to give a bible study.

3) Regardless, why was this ever a law for anyone in the first place?

I do not know. I do not need to know because the law was for the Jews. However, you should search it on Catholics Answers as I am sure there is an answer.

4) As a law abiding citizen, would you have lit the match, or instruct someone else to do it?

I wouldn't have had to. Jews had people to do this sort of thing. An Orthodox Jewish friend told me they very rarely ever killed anyone. I think they argue that they never had to burn anyone because it takes so much to show someone is guilty of this crime. I have read a bunch of the Talmud years ago, but I cannot remember where it addresses the death penalty.

Either way, I wouldn't have had to worry about killing the person myself. Just like maybe you live in America, but you do not have to kill those our government kills on death row. I personally disagree with the death penalty. I think Jews made up a bunch of laws that were never given by God. They wanted an earthly king and kingdom so they got it. They were given a chance to try to show the light of God to the world and they failed.

[Miles]

.

What I find interesting, actually amusing, is that Paul or whoever feel they can override Jesus's (god's) pronouncements.


Jesus:

Matthew 5:17-18
17 “Don’t think that I have come to destroy the Law of Moses or the teaching of the prophets. I have come not to destroy their teachings but to give full meaning to them. 18 I assure you that nothing will disappear from the law until heaven and earth are gone. The law will not lose even the smallest letter or the smallest part of a letter until it has all been done.

Paul:

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Romans 7:6
But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.

Romans 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Whoever:

Hebrews 10:1
10 The law gave us only an unclear picture of the good things coming in the future. The law is not a perfect picture of the real things. The law tells people to offer the same sacrifices every year. Those who come to worship God continue to offer those sacrifices. But the law can never make them perfect.

Reads like a lot of Who Shot John to get out from under the law.


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