Trinity

[Ross]

Where did this concept come from?

I would suggest it began with John 1:1

[Miles]

WHAT DID JESUS MEAN THAT HE AND HIS FATHER WERE ONE?



Jesus could not here have intended to say that he was literally "one God" with the Father since , according to the Catholic NAB translation, he went on to pray regarding his disciples

As I pointed out in my previous post, ". . . why did the fact that Jesus went on to pray regarding his disciples prevent him from being "one with his father?" The reason you give for Jesus not intending to say he was literally "'one God'"? Moreover, "Jesus never said 'he was literally one God with the Father," but rather that he and his father were one. Hardly the same claim."

Jesus used the same Greek word [hen] for his disciples as he did for himself and God. Obviously Jesus was not saying his disciples were Almighty God and part of a trinity!

Why would Jesus use Greek when it's almost a given he conversed in Aramaic?

"As Jonathan Katz, a Classics lecturer at Oxford University, told BBC News, Jesus probably didn’t know more than a few words in Latin. He probably knew more Greek, but it was not a common language among the people he spoke to regularly, and he was likely not too proficient. He definitely did not speak Arabic, another Semitic language that did not arrive in Palestine until after the first century A.D. "
source

And your claim here is quite a reach, don't you think? Especially when you've presented no corroborating evidence. Got some scripture stating that "Jesus used the same Greek word [hen] for his disciples as he did for himself and God," then please be kind enough to produce it.


.

[Difflugia]

In the original language God theos/(Hebrew El) simply means powerful one, and is a recognition of that which we recognize as more powerful/superior to ourselves.

Do you have any support for this assertion at all? There's no evidence that theos meant anything other than a god in the "original language." With very few exceptions, theos and words with a theo- prefix refer to gods, heaven, or something else having to do with divinity. Any meaning of "powerful one" is metaphorical in the sense of "godlike" rather than the inverse, as you aver without support.

If Thomas answered in Greek, then your claim is simply wrong on its face. If Thomas answered in Aramaic, then (as this is TD&D) your argument must be that the inspired Greek composer of John's Gospel chose the wrong word in translating the quotation in Greek. This is the Greek composer, mind you, whose rhetorical command of Greek was strong enough to engage in frequent wordplay within his or her composition. If anything, the exact opposite of your assertion is much more likely to be true: John's author was using those terms to recall their uses in the Septuagint, reinforce for his or her readers that Jesus was both "Lord" and "God."

[Eloi]

In the original language God theos/(Hebrew El) simply means powerful one, and is a recognition of that which we recognize as more powerful/superior to ourselves.

Do you have any support for this assertion at all? There's no evidence that theos meant anything other than a god in the "original language." With very few exceptions, theos and words with a theo- prefix refer to gods, heaven, or something else having to do with divinity. Any meaning of "powerful one" is metaphorical in the sense of "godlike" rather than the inverse, as you aver without support.

If Thomas answered in Greek, then your claim is simply wrong on its face. If Thomas answered in Aramaic, then (as this is TD&D) your argument must be that the inspired Greek composer of John's Gospel chose the wrong word in translating the quotation in Greek. This is the Greek composer, mind you, whose rhetorical command of Greek was strong enough to engage in frequent wordplay within his or her composition. If anything, the exact opposite of your assertion is much more likely to be true: John's author was using those terms to recall their uses in the Septuagint, reinforce for his or her readers that Jesus was both "Lord" and "God."

It was John himself who recorded this dialog:

John 10:31 Once again the Jews picked up stones to stone him. 32 Jesus replied to them: “I displayed to you many fine works from the Father. For which of those works are you stoning me?” 33 The Jews answered him: “We are stoning you, not for a fine work, but for blasphemy; for you, although being a man, make yourself a god.” 34 Jesus answered them: “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said: “You are gods [θεοι]”’? 35 If he called ‘gods’ those against whom the word of God came—and yet the scripture cannot be nullified— 36 do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 If I am not doing the works of my Father, do not believe me. 38 But if I am doing them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, so that you may come to know and may continue knowing that the Father is in union with me and I am in union with the Father.” 39 So they tried again to seize him, but he escaped from their reach.

Therefore, John knew very well that Jesus did not limit the meaning of the Greek word for god solely to his Father (John 17:3; 20:17).

[JehovahsWitness]

Got some scripture stating that "Jesus used the same Greek word [hen] for his disciples as he did for himself and

Fair enough , I'll rephrase: In the gospel account which describes Jesus conversation on the passover night, the same Greek word is used "one" with God as also used for "one" with his disciples. Thanks for pointing that out: duly amended.


JW



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[Difflugia]

Therefore, John knew very well that Jesus did not limit the meaning of the Greek word for god solely to his Father (John 17:3; 20:17).

And John's Jesus was clearly being ironic; the Gospel of John employs irony repeatedly. Was John's Thomas being ironic?