Defend Number 31:1-18

Argue for and against Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
boatsnguitars
Banned
Banned
Posts: 2060
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:09 am
Has thanked: 477 times
Been thanked: 580 times

Defend Number 31:1-18

Post #1

Post by boatsnguitars »

From another post I made:
Numbers 31: 1-18
It was a beautiful, sunny day at the baseball park. The smell of hotdogs, the crack of the bat, children playing around the stands. Good natured chants from the bleacher, and the light sounds of John Cougar Melloncamp coming from a radio somewhere. Suddenly, 9 black vans pull up and men with large crosses on their black jackets unshoulder their rifles and start shooting indiscriminately. They first kill the men, then the women. They drive down or gun down those who try to run. They shoot the dogs playing in the dog run. Then they go for the children and babies. They start executing them one by one until only a few young girls remain.
As they force the girls into the vans they check to make sure their job was done to perfection, as their Commander demanded. They come across a woman, pregnant and cradling her dead 3 year old in her arms..

"But, why?," she gurgled through the blood filling her lungs.

The man raised the gun to her head, and before the last shot rang out said, "Because you're evil,"
Here is the actual Numbers 31:1-18
Numbers 31:1-18
King James Version
31 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Avenge the children of Israel of the Midianites: afterward shalt thou be gathered unto thy people.
3 And Moses spake unto the people, saying, Arm some of yourselves unto the war, and let them go against the Midianites, and avenge the Lord of Midian.
4 Of every tribe a thousand, throughout all the tribes of Israel, shall ye send to the war.
5 So there were delivered out of the thousands of Israel, a thousand of every tribe, twelve thousand armed for war.
6 And Moses sent them to the war, a thousand of every tribe, them and Phinehas the son of Eleazar the priest, to the war, with the holy instruments, and the trumpets to blow in his hand.
7 And they warred against the Midianites, as the Lord commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.
8 And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword.
9 And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.
10 And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.
11 And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts.
12 And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho.
13 And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp.
14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.
15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?
16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the Lord in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the Lord.
17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
How do Christians defend this?

Usually, they will say that the Midianites were immoral. They claimed their women were seducing their men! (Those evil women! Those poor, innocent men!) I mean, they weren't slaughtering men, women, children and livestock - it was worse! Sex! Eeeeeewwwww! Grosss!

But wait, those Midianites were so much worse than that: They believed in another God! Oh, what horror is that! They believed in an Evil God - and Yahweh was jealous (and Good, of course), so Yahweh had to tell Moses to kill everyone - as Good Gods, and totally not evil gods, do.

But, wait, the Midianites were far worse than this. They got sick and it became a pandemic! Those evil, sick Midianites! How dare they get a disease! How dare they not understand Germ Theory! Off with their heads!

So, you can clearly see: The Midianites were evil, Yahweh was Good....

And, so goes Christian Logic.
“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm

TRANSPONDER
Savant
Posts: 8194
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:05 am
Has thanked: 958 times
Been thanked: 3552 times

Re: Defend Number 31:1-18

Post #2

Post by TRANSPONDER »

We have done quite a bit of this recently. Excusing God's atrocities in the OT. Oddly not by saying 'It's all changed now', even if the try to do that with slavery. But use either 'God can do as he likes' or 'They had it coming', which is of course the reason why religions should not have authority, control and most importantly, political power.

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 21144
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 795 times
Been thanked: 1129 times
Contact:

Re: Defend Number 31:1-18

Post #3

Post by JehovahsWitness »

WHY DID GOD ORDER AN ATTACK ON THE MIDIANITES ?

The Midianites were "cousins" (decendents from Abraham) to the Israelites and not one of the nations God pronounced would be totally destroyed; however their joining forces with the Moabites put them in harms way and was viewed by God as an attack. Subvertive actions of the Midianites , notable their women, resulted in the death of 23,000 Israelites To overlook such attacks would surely lead to further aggression and leave God's people vulnerable so God ordered a counteroffensive against the Midianite-Moabite coalition.

The MIDIANITES nor were not wiped out completely as a concession of their joint ancestry and the virgin girls were spared.



RELATED POSTS




Was God injuste to exterminate the Amelekites?
viewtopic.php?p=1032398#p1032398

Would a benevolent God order the killing of non-combattants?
viewtopic.php?p=815959#p815959

Why did God destroy the Canaanites?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 58#p906458

Why did God command war against MIDIANITES?
viewtopic.php?p=1134480#p1134480

Why didn't God save the babies?
viewtopic.php?p=1124007#p1124007
To learn more please go to other posts related to ....

DIVINE WAR, VIOLENCE and .... NON COMBATTANTS
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

User avatar
1213
Savant
Posts: 11476
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:06 am
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 327 times
Been thanked: 374 times

Re: Defend Number 31:1-18

Post #4

Post by 1213 »

boatsnguitars wrote: Wed Nov 01, 2023 9:48 am How do Christians defend this?
I understand that you feel bad, if someone is killed. And I think it is good, if you think so.

I don't know much of the actual events, only what is said in the Bible. And I think the book of Jonah gives nice example of how God judges.

Rise up, go to Nineveh, the great city, and cry out against it; for their evil has come up before Me.
Jonah 1:2
And Jonah began to enter a day's journey into the city. And he cried out and said, Yet forty days and Nineveh shall be overthrown!
Jonah 3:4
But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth. And let them call with strength to God. And let them each one turn from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their palms. Who knows? He may turn, and God may have pity and turn away from the glow of His anger, that we do not perish. And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way. And God was compassionate over the evil that He had declared to do to them, and He did not do it .
Jonah 3:8-10
But it was a great calamity to Jonah's eye, and it kindled anger in him. And he prayed to Jehovah, and said, Please, O Jehovah, was this not my word while I was on my own land? On account of this, I fled to Tarshish before, for I knew that You are a gracious God and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and One who repents over calamity.
Jonah 4:1-2
and should I not have pity on Nineveh, the great city in which are more than a hundred and twenty thousand men who do not know between the right and the left hand , and many cattle?
Jonah 4:11

I think that shows God gives people a chance and if He kills, it is because people are truly evil. But, what do you think, should God allow evil to continue forever and make life eternal suffering for all? I think it would not be good, which is why I can accept, if God kills evil people.

User avatar
boatsnguitars
Banned
Banned
Posts: 2060
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:09 am
Has thanked: 477 times
Been thanked: 580 times

Re: Defend Number 31:1-18

Post #5

Post by boatsnguitars »

1213 wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2023 5:47 am
boatsnguitars wrote: Wed Nov 01, 2023 9:48 am How do Christians defend this?
I understand that you feel bad, if someone is killed. And I think it is good, if you think so.

I don't know much of the actual events, only what is said in the Bible. And I think the book of Jonah gives nice example of how God judges.

Rise up, go to Nineveh, the great city, and cry out against it; for their evil has come up before Me.
Jonah 1:2
And Jonah began to enter a day's journey into the city. And he cried out and said, Yet forty days and Nineveh shall be overthrown!
Jonah 3:4
But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth. And let them call with strength to God. And let them each one turn from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their palms. Who knows? He may turn, and God may have pity and turn away from the glow of His anger, that we do not perish. And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way. And God was compassionate over the evil that He had declared to do to them, and He did not do it .
Jonah 3:8-10
But it was a great calamity to Jonah's eye, and it kindled anger in him. And he prayed to Jehovah, and said, Please, O Jehovah, was this not my word while I was on my own land? On account of this, I fled to Tarshish before, for I knew that You are a gracious God and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and One who repents over calamity.
Jonah 4:1-2
and should I not have pity on Nineveh, the great city in which are more than a hundred and twenty thousand men who do not know between the right and the left hand , and many cattle?
Jonah 4:11

I think that shows God gives people a chance and if He kills, it is because people are truly evil. But, what do you think, should God allow evil to continue forever and make life eternal suffering for all? I think it would not be good, which is why I can accept, if God kills evil people.
What evil were they doing?
“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm

Post Reply