Sentient Earth - Is the planet mindful and would this explain why there is life in earth?

[The Tanager]

In another thread, William and I were talking about morality and we got off on some topics like the one above. We decided to have that conversation here. This is the first question I'd like to look at. I do think life on earth is only ultimately explained via some kind of mind (or personal agent or creator). I think this belief is rationally supported by various arguments such as the Kalam cosmological argument, the fine-tuning argument, the moral argument, the applicability of mathematics, and the argument from consciousness. I do not think these arguments lead us to the conclusion that a sentient Earth is the ultimate mind behind it all or that it is a mindful link in the chain of creation. I don't think these arguments necessarily rule out a sentient Earth either (although I haven't given this point more than a surface consideration). But logical possibility is not a deciding test of truth, so we need to go further and find reasoning to lead us to the planet actually being mindful. Currently, I see no good reason to believe our planet is mindful.

So, William, I'd love to hear why you think we are rationally warranted in asserting that the planet is mindful and at least part of the chain of creation that led to us. In that other thread you seemed to just assert the Earth as a mindful example and thought that I was doing the same with the immaterial Mind behind creation. If I was that would certainly be a double standard, but I think the above arguments support an immaterial Mind behind creation. What arguments do you think support a sentient Earth?

[William]

[Replying to Waterfall in post #110]

Namaskaram Waterfall

Is there one big mind and many small minds?

One could look at it like that, yes.

God has always existed but I am not so sure about us?

Define "us" - the "unsure"...

How do others think...
https://human.libretexts.org/Bookshelve ... gavad_Gita

The story from the link has an example of being within a story in which one is faced with the choice to war against those one loves (as family) and the god advising the man to understand the part being played in the story. The human (personality) role.

If we are not created spirits then I will have to drop this book...

We are not created. What is created are human personalities and roles and stages (rooms) wherein roles can be played out.

We are ambassadors of that which we self identify as being.

In Ardors case, (re the story you linked) the contrition can be linked with the realisation of one's true identity and the understanding that one's false identity as being responsible for the grief that ensured...one has overcome the accusation re the question "why did god allow?" (as with the case of Adam saying "The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.”).

We are free to cling to the self-identifying as a human personality, or merge that human personality with the realisation that we are eternal beings - involved in the temporary role-play of being human...

Perhaps it is not a case of having to "drop your book" but rather simply to tweak accordingly?

Do you find this true...

https://www.krishna.com/where-do-fallen-souls-fall

These are terminology reaching for understanding.

If one is cast into a bottomless pit, does one really fall - can one really be "falling"?

There is no "bottom" to come into contact with, so one is left floating...

The "falling" is really a human term for the idea of hiding from our true self - who we truly are - as the stage and costume conceal that from us when we enter the action of the human experience.
Of what purpose would the experience be if it were not done so genuinely?

Thus, the design of the human form allows for the forgetfulness to be experienced. We are given a blank canvas in which to paint the picture of our human experience upon. We also have the added weight to carry in that those who have come before us are also painting their picture upon our canvas (the cavas of our human experience) and this acts also in distorting the image of our self identification and so we have truly fallen from the knowledge of our true self in a genuine manner. We become genuinely lost to the knowledge of our true selves.

Yet, clues are provided within the play - and we (as human personalities) can "adopt" those clues into our psyches even to the point where we then "adopt" the human personality into the greater (once hidden/concealed) knowledge and merge that personality with who we truly are (eternal mind) and this merging is at the heart of wholeness...the actor becomes the genuine as the realisation dawns and takes hold and transforms ignorance into knowledge and knowledge into the joy of floating rather than the fear of falling...

Are we sources of inspiration...

Does darkness help us to understand the beauty of light?



Is the light not instigated by the sound of thought within The Creator Mind - setting the stages for the acts to unfold?

[Waterfall]

[Replying to William in post #111]

Namaskaram William

Are we (you and I) not small minds? Compared to God...

The book - Toward the Light! - makes me unsure because it says we are created spirits. Why is that not true? Can God not create (eternal) children...

What exists? Thought (feminine) and Will (masculine) and Light (good) and Darkness (evil). These 4 "things" existed from eternity. We could call it a beginning or a starting point or a state of cosmos. How do we get to another state of cosmos? Thought (feminine) and Will (masculine) and Light (good) had to unite? God had to realize himself first? God is Light and not Darkness...

You are a great thinker Love is in the air I am here to support and help everybody...



Your friend forever

Waterfall

[William]

[Replying to Waterfall in post #112]

Are we (you and I) not small minds? Compared to God...

How big is God? Does any book tell us?

If you fill a jar with water from the lake, does the water in the jar become something other than the water in the lake?

[Waterfall]

[Replying to William in post #113]

Namaskaram William

Have we existed from eternity Can God not create children Let us inspire our brothers and sisters...















Your friend forever

Waterfall

[William]

Can God not create children

We are ambassadors of that which we self identify as being.

[Waterfall]

Can God not create children

We are ambassadors of that which we self identify as being.

Namaskaram William

I am Light and not Darkness Let us sing and dance and love life...







Your friend forever

Waterfall

[nameless]

[Replying to The Tanager in post #1]
"Sentient Earth - Is the planet mindful"
~~~ Since all evidence points to the Universe being Mind, I'd say that the Earth is as mindful as a mirage is 'water full', or a hologram is unicorn-full.
When tucked in at night (if that Blessed) and dreaming, are you always 'lucid' in your dreams or does everything seem as 'real' as during the day? Reality is exceedingly counter-intuitive!


"and would this explain why there is life in earth?"
~~~ So, you are automatically accepting that there is actually something 'out there' called 'life'?
Do living things have to move?
Then 'movies' are living and what you are viewing is actually happening.
Are the people inhabiting your 'night' dreams actually living? They certainly seem to be.
Just like I 'seem to be'.
Now, rather than 'life', we look at Consciousness/Awareness, the evidence seems to indicate that with the constant improvement of our sensory enhancing devices, we are constantly amazed to find 'life' everywhere we look (OurSelf winking back) when we didn't find anything earlier!
As our Consciousness/Awareness grows, somehow the Consciousness of the Universe seems to grow (in Self Awareness; Existence (as perceived) is God's Self Revelation).

[The Tanager]

Since all evidence points to the Universe being Mind, I'd say that the Earth is as mindful as a mirage is 'water full', or a hologram is unicorn-full.

What evidence points to the Universe being Mind?

When tucked in at night (if that Blessed) and dreaming, are you always 'lucid' in your dreams or does everything seem as 'real' as during the day? Reality is exceedingly counter-intuitive!

Some aspects may be counter intuitive, but not all of it.

So, you are automatically accepting that there is actually something 'out there' called 'life'?

I don’t automatically accept anything. What do you mean “out there”?

Do living things have to move? Then 'movies' are living and what you are viewing is actually happening.

I don’t think living things have to move, no.

Are the people inhabiting your 'night' dreams actually living? They certainly seem to be.
Just like I 'seem to be'.

That doesn’t mean one can’t be living and the other not.

Now, rather than 'life', we look at Consciousness/Awareness, the evidence seems to indicate that with the constant improvement of our sensory enhancing devices, we are constantly amazed to find 'life' everywhere we look (OurSelf winking back) when we didn't find anything earlier!

But we don’t necessarily find ‘life’ everywhere we look.

[William]

[Replying to The Tanager in post #118]

What evidence points to the Universe being Mind?

The only evidence we know of that points to the universe being mindful, is the existence of the Earth.

I don’t think living things have to move, no.

Given the universe we exist within is constantly moving...I don't think living things within it have the option not to move.

[nameless]

Since all evidence points to the Universe being Mind, I'd say that the Earth is as mindful as a mirage is 'water full', or a hologram is unicorn-full.

"What evidence points to the Universe being Mind?"
Shall we start with your question? Where does it exist? In your mind, you remember typing it into the keyboard that you remember and seeing it (memory) on your monitor (memory) and I read it (memory) on my (I am composed of memory monitor (I remember reading it, remember the monitor).
All 'evidence' when followed to it's natural conclusion leaves us with Mind. You cannot name anything that is not in 'your' mind.
There is absolutely no evidence of any 'thing-in-itself', beyond the perceiver's mind.
Thus my contention of "all evidence" leading to Mind.

When tucked in at night (if that Blessed) and dreaming, are you always 'lucid' in your dreams or does everything seem as 'real' as during the day? Reality is exceedingly counter-intuitive!

"Some aspects may be counter intuitive, but not all of it."
No, all of it.
No one simply intuits that the entirety of the Universe is all a Holistic momentary flash of Divine insight, Mind.

So, you are automatically accepting that there is actually something 'out there' called 'life'?

"I don’t automatically accept anything."
Using it in your question without evidence, like; "God created the Universe, so how can God blah, blah...?) It 'assumes' (automatically accepts) the creator-hood of God into the question. More honest might be; "IF God created..."

" What do you mean “out there”?"
Beyond (your) Mind

Do living things have to move? Then 'movies' are living and what you are viewing is actually happening.

"I don’t think living things have to move, no."
It was just an example, fill in the blank with whatever is relevant for you.

Are the people inhabiting your 'night' dreams actually living? They certainly seem to be.
Just like I 'seem to be'.

"That doesn’t mean one can’t be living and the other not."
I'm trying to be focused, perhaps you'd like to share your unique definition of 'life' and we can go from there?

Now, rather than 'life', we look at Consciousness/Awareness, the evidence seems to indicate that with the constant improvement of our sensory enhancing devices, we are constantly amazed to find 'life' everywhere we look (OurSelf winking back) when we didn't find anything earlier!

"But we don’t necessarily find ‘life’ everywhere we look."
It is what has been happening all along. The entire trend of bio-sciences bears evidence.
Again, I guess that I'd need to see your definition of 'life'.