"Slavery" in the Bible

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"Slavery" in the Bible

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Post by POI »

Allow us readers to be very careful. We must make sure we identify the proper context here, to assure against hasty and/or self-serving conclusions.

Exodus 21:2-3:

"2 "If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. 3 If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him." <-- Okay, this seems clear enough, if you are a purchased Hebrew, with a wife, you are both to go free in year 7. :ok:

Exodus 21:4:

"4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free." <-- Here is where things start to look sketchy for the modern-day believer. If the slave is provided with a wife, and they have kids, the wife and kids are to stay with the slave master. They are not to go free.

Exodus 21:5-6:

"5 "But if the servant declares, I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free, 6 then his master must take him before the judges.[a] He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life." <-- More uncomfortability for the Christian here. Without getting into the weeds, common sense suggests a special rule is made to trick the male Hebrew into remaining a slave for life.

Leviticus 25:44-46:

"44 "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly." <-- More awkwardness for the believer, as the Bible reader clammers to find a rationale to make this passage not read the way it does.

Here is a basic definition of chattel slavery --> "Chattel slavery is full slavery in its traditional form whereby slaves are the complete property of their master, can be bought and sold by him and treated in any way that he wishes, which may include torture and other brutality, excessively bad working conditions, and sexual exploitation"

Looks like all the ingredients fit the given Bible description here, minus the torture. Wait a minute, this is covered in the rest of Exodus 21. (i.e.):

"20 "Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property." <-- So basically, since the slave is your property, beatings with impunity are acceptable. Just don't kill them.

For debate:

By applying common sense, does/did the Bible ever, and/or currently still sanction chattel slavery?

Again, by using common sense, can a believer effectively use the Bible in support of breeding chattel slaves?

************************

Before you answer, consider this.... Since the NT does not mention the abolition of 'slavery', and yet the Bible makes further proclamation(s) and/or addendums (in favor of retaining 'slavery',) this means the Bible is not against chattel slavery either. Further, the Christian may want to introduce the importance of the 'golden rule'. However, the specifics outweigh the generals. The specifics of the rules for engagement of slavery are outside the 'golden rule'. Otherwise, the Bible would be a one-pager. 'Slavery' is an expressed exception to the general rule. Thus, anytime a specific scenario is not invoked, yes, 'golden rule.'
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #391

Post by marke »

POI wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 6:21 am
marke wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am God tells Christians how to deal with tyrannical government oppression but that does not mean that God supports tyrannical oppression. God tells Christians how to deal with divorce but God does not approve of divorce. The elephant in the room that critics of God refuse to acknowledge is the fact that God nowhere instructs Christians to buy or abuse slaves.
Exactly. The Bible tells readers that God does not like divorce. Where does the Bible state that God does not like slavery? See the difference yet?

4th request... Why follow a book which does not align with your own moral standards?
God does not say He opposes poverty but He does warn against wealth obtained by greed. God does not say He opposes communism but He does oppose atheistic tyrannical rule just the same. God promises to provide comfort to those who are treated unjustly whether by slavery, conscription, worker oppression, theft, abuse, or whatever, even if He does not spell out His opposition in detail to human oppressors and oppression. I believe criticizing God and finding fault with Him is worse than buying, taking, keeping, or abusing slaves.

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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #392

Post by POI »

marke wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 7:55 am
POI wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 6:21 am
marke wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am God tells Christians how to deal with tyrannical government oppression but that does not mean that God supports tyrannical oppression. God tells Christians how to deal with divorce but God does not approve of divorce. The elephant in the room that critics of God refuse to acknowledge is the fact that God nowhere instructs Christians to buy or abuse slaves.
Exactly. The Bible tells readers that God does not like divorce. Where does the Bible state that God does not like slavery? See the difference yet?

4th request... Why follow a book which does not align with your own moral standards?
God does not say He opposes poverty but He does warn against wealth obtained by greed.
Jesus lived in poverty, so of course he would not say that.
marke wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 7:55 am God does not say He opposes communism
Jesus would not mention anything about 'communiism' because he would likely have no idea what it was, as it was not a thing until the 18th century.
marke wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 7:55 am God promises to provide comfort to those who are treated unjustly whether by slavery,
How about just telling folks not to enslave other folks? I mean, the Bible can tell folks not to eat shellfish or mix linens. Why skip over what you would consider to be way worse, in endorsing lifetime chattel slavery and slave breeding?

5th request... Why follow a book in which does not align with your own moral standards?
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #393

Post by servant1 »

[Replying to POI in post #386]


God created one human family, to love and respect each other. He does not condone slavery.

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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #394

Post by POI »

servant1 wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 1:32 pm [Replying to POI in post #386]
He does not condone slavery.
Yes. the Bible does. We are right back where we started, in the original post.

Why do you follow a book which disagrees with your own morals?
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #395

Post by servant1 »

[Replying to POI in post #394]

Show me where it says God condones it.

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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #396

Post by benchwarmer »

servant1 wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 7:35 pm [Replying to POI in post #394]

Show me where it says God condones it.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV
14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies.
Next question?

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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #397

Post by POI »

servant1 wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 7:35 pm [Replying to POI in post #394]

Show me where it says God condones it.
"44 "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly."

Why follow a book which does not align with your own morals?
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #398

Post by marke »

POI wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 10:50 am
marke wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 7:55 am
POI wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 6:21 am
marke wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am God tells Christians how to deal with tyrannical government oppression but that does not mean that God supports tyrannical oppression. God tells Christians how to deal with divorce but God does not approve of divorce. The elephant in the room that critics of God refuse to acknowledge is the fact that God nowhere instructs Christians to buy or abuse slaves.
Exactly. The Bible tells readers that God does not like divorce. Where does the Bible state that God does not like slavery? See the difference yet?

4th request... Why follow a book which does not align with your own moral standards?
God does not say He opposes poverty but He does warn against wealth obtained by greed.
Jesus lived in poverty, so of course he would not say that.
marke wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 7:55 am God does not say He opposes communism
Jesus would not mention anything about 'communiism' because he would likely have no idea what it was, as it was not a thing until the 18th century.
marke wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 7:55 am God promises to provide comfort to those who are treated unjustly whether by slavery,
How about just telling folks not to enslave other folks? I mean, the Bible can tell folks not to eat shellfish or mix linens. Why skip over what you would consider to be way worse, in endorsing lifetime chattel slavery and slave breeding?

5th request... Why follow a book in which does not align with your own moral standards?
Why did God not tell people not to allow tyrannical governments to rule over them? Why did God not tell sinners not to give money to greedy scammers who are just taking them for their money like saps? Why did God not tell soldiers not to take prisoners of enemy nations as spoils of war, or to imprison those enemies or make slaves out of them? I don't know why God left many things unsaid, but I do believe sinners have all they need from God to do ritht and to fight for truth, justice, and right.

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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #399

Post by 1213 »

POI wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 6:19 am
1213 wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 12:15 am
POI wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 1:33 am
1213 wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 1:18 am
POI wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2025 2:38 pm ... And whipping them on the back, at will, rendered NO punishment, as long as they did not die....
Have you ever wondered why is there no specific rule against whipping anyone in the Bible? When you ignore the love your neighbor part, you could as well whip any person, not just slaves.
In regard to the care of slaves, masters are instructed not to be punished as long as their slaves do not lose teeth or eyes. That's it. I think whipping was the safest and most effective way to keep slaves productive, since this was the slave master's workforce for free and/or cheap labor.
There is no punishment for whipping any person. So, why do you make this a slave issue, when it is not only slaves that could be whipped, if you ignore the second highest commandment from the Bible?
You, of all people, should understand context.
It seems you didn't understand the question. Bible doesn't say, don't whip your neighbor. And it does not give any punishment, if one does so. Why should it be different in the case of slaves?

Your whole argument is based on the assumption that "love your neighbor" means only specific people, not anyone next to you. And that is a mistake, because Bible doesn't say you can arbitrarily choose to ignore the rule, if you feel so. And it is kind of funny that you accuse Christians for ignoring some rules, yet you yourself ignore one of the highest rules in the Bible, to make a point against Bible and God. Very sad.
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #400

Post by servant1 »

[Replying to benchwarmer in post #396]


Never wise to assume. It says nothing about slavery.

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