abortion

[concerro]

Is it right that a woman can terminate a pregnancy without the father's consent even if her life is not endangered by the pregnancy but if the father does not want the child and the woman wants to keep it he cant do anything

[Curious]

An unborn child respires just as a born child does, the only difference is the mechanism by which the gases are exchanged with the external environment.

What you say is true - a foetus does exchange gases via the umbilical cord and placenta. This is because they don't have lungs and if not for thsi mechanism they woul dnot survive. There whole coronary/pulmonary circulation is different prior to birth, with the hole in the atrium closing after birth. Sometimes this doesn't happen which requires immediate surgery. Else the new born child will die.

Not quite true. While persistent foetal circulation is life threatening, as long as the circulation is shunted towards the lungs for oxygenation, the hole in the heart is not strictly incompatible with life. Many people have lived quite happily into adolescence until it is found that on exertion they are not quite right. Surgery is then required to close the hole to allow a more normal life filled with the rigours of youth.

[bernee51]

Not quite true. While persistent foetal circulation is life threatening, as long as the circulation is shunted towards the lungs for oxygenation, the hole in the heart is not strictly incompatible with life. Many people have lived quite happily into adolescence until it is found that on exertion they are not quite right. Surgery is then required to close the hole to allow a more normal life filled with the rigours of youth.

Thanks for pointing that out. I note that a patent foramen ovale is only a problem if there are other complications

[Curious]

I disagree with Curious on this point. You are taking the text out of context.

Thanks for that. It does show that doctrine depends just as much (if not more so) on hermeneutics as it does on scripture. The whole Adam/Eve story is a metaphor.

I am unsure whether Dark Haibane really disagreed with me or actually meant agreed with me here. The point of contention was not mine but your own bernee51. I can't really see how it would be possible to disagree with a question that sought only to ascertain how you make this distinction between antenatal and postnatal life. After all, a child must first be 5 before they become an adult, so to say that a child must first be born before they can reach adulthood really shows no defining line as you believe.

[Dark Haibane]

It was not I, but bernee51 who said that life begins at the first breath after birth. You will see that I make the distinction between breath and respiration in another point. You are quite right though when you say that it is symbolic rather than literal.

I was speaking to bernee51 about the start of life, the point I constested that was made by you was in that you said:

Oh well, that settles it then doesn't it! I find it a little strange here that I find myself in the predicament of having to explain to an atheist that everything in the bible isn't necessarily true....

Though I realize that you most likely meant that it was symbolic, it was stated in such a manner as to weaken the argument that both you and I were making. I apologize if I offended you in any way.

[Curious]

Though I realize that you most likely meant that it was symbolic, it was stated in such a manner as to weaken the argument that both you and I were making. I apologize if I offended you in any way.

That's ok, no offence taken. I was just confused as I assumed you disagreed with the point quoted in your post.