The Gay Denomination?

[99percentatheism]

The Gay Denomination.

For those people that desire same gender sexual behavior or thoughts, AND that claim to be a Christian and claim that their beliefs and theology can fit the New Testament witness, instead of waging an endless, fruitless and vicious war on other Christians - that will NEVER accept their gay doctrines and dogmas . . ., - why won't they just declare a new and alternative denomination, just like Watch Tower theological adherants and Mormons?

Why the need to join forces with anti-Christian and secularist movements to attack "Bible believing" Christians?

Afterall, in referencing the New Testament, there is no justifiable comparison of sex acts to being a slave (slavery), or the charge of bigotry and hatefulness in holding that marriage is a man and a woman.

Why not just start an "Out and Proud" Gay Denomination?

[99percentatheism]

So for you the 'liberal arts' education that has been the hallmark of our college education system the last 200 years or more should be scrapped in favor of vocational tech and job training. And you base your pronouncement on zero facts or studies; just on your personal opinion. You have lost whatever scintilla of credibility you still had.

What a dreary, uncreative, lifeless world you would have us make. Just machines and buildings, shells without out hearts. No art, no music, no literature, no religion, nothing but a spartan, lifeless utilitarian State. Nothing but a Market without variety and a Church without hope.

What an utterly smug and elitist opinion. Are you really saying that a mechanic down at the local shop has no artistic or philosophical worth?
....

You missed that by a mile. The statement you label as smug and elitist is your own. I am not and did not say or even imply a 'yes' to your question. My remark was about M&C's ridiculous suggestion that college only teach industrial arts:

"...vocational training, that is industry backed, for high-skill labor, or career paths that are facing severe shortages. From being a Doctor, to a Software Engineer, CNC Machining, to Carpentry, and Welding."

Hmm, I don't think I did, but I'll allow you the comfort of outrage. It seems common these days.

What a dreary, uncreative, lifeless world you would have us make. Just machines and buildings, shells without out hearts. No art, no music, no literature, no religion, nothing but a spartan, lifeless utilitarian State. Nothing but a Market without variety and a Church without hope.

Now I fully realize your play on words at the end here, but I find it interesting that you would describe the atheistic universe perfectly and yet add religion and art in the mix.

The beauty we find in nature is simply not there in an uncreated realm. It/they are simply machines and buildings, shells without out hearts. No art, no music, no nothing but a Spartan, lifeless utilitarian state.

But I still would like to see you two pillars of intellectual prowess turn your wits to the OP.

[Clownboat]

...

The reason for the decline in Christianity in Europe is because of an increase in education. The same trend can be seen in the U. S., tho' it is not as dramatic, it has the same cause. Conservative, fundamentalist religion, whether Christian or Islamic, is undermined by education. The same force, education, is the engine that has resulted in a majority of Americans accepting gay marriage. This is a huge shift in American politics and was recently discussed in a TIME cover story.

That is the leftist assumption. This is also why Liberals do not think that we conservatives actually believe in our ideals, since their version of objectivity states that all that has gone wrong throughout history owes its roots to conservatism, & so they couldn't possibly imagine someone taking those "conservative" ideas seriously.

So they categorize us Conservatives into one of several possibilities:

• 1.) He/She doesn't know any better, is mentally inept, stupid.
  2.) He/She could know better, but is misinformed.
  3.) He/She knows better, but has bad motivations.

Conservatives are routinely thrown into the 3rd category. Our variety of folk is to Leftism, what satan worshipers is to Christianity. We know the light, but choose to be on a corporations payroll. We could simply offer up 90% of our income to feed and cloth the have-not's, but our greed has blinded us from love.

It is why we on the Right are Demons, whereas a muslim or Hindu who also opposes Gay Marriage are not necessarily looked down upon. The Left put them in the second category, as being misinformed, and are therefore excused by their "innocence." If they are extremists who go about lynching homosexuals, they may be of the first or second variety, but are still granted innocence if they are non-white, because minorities cannot be corrupt, because they don't have "power." The Left makes excuses for the "powerless," and they think their primitive ways can all be solved by smart, intellectual, evolved, and nuanced Leftist Education.

Education is therefore, there raison d'etat, and the key, in their view, to destroying ignorance, and bringing people over to leftism. Especially the type of "ignorance" that Leftists often cite Fox News as perpetuating, in what it sees as a war to "misinform" the populace, by creating ideological right-wing drones who don't know any better then the ideological drivel they've been brainwashed into regurgitating.

That's why you attach "Smart" to things like growth, and car, and democracy. To denote that you are more morally evolved and intellectually seasoned, then your conservative counterparts, because they have been "educated" in a more enlightening views then their suburban living SUV driving fascist Americans on the Right. Education is overvalued, and utterly worthless in 90% of US colleges. They don't teach you how to think, but what to think about. They are leftists seminary, meant to instruct incoming students, in how to be Leftists.

• It is not a matter of Education, but a matter of Values, that divides the Left and the Right. And that divide is unbridgeable, not because of education, but because these values we hold are antithetical to each other. You worship Diversity(Multiculturalism), and we worship E Pluribus Unum... utter opposites.

Your brush is too broad, and I laugh at you for the part in bold (worthless?).

Care to flesh out your dismissal? Of this being too broad, too sweeping? Dismiss and Describe. That is the Leftist calling card. They cannot compete intellectually in philosophical argumentation, so they don't answer, because they can't. Or maybe they can, but they are just holding out.

Sure!
(For your brush that is too broad)
- That is the leftist assumption.
- This is also why Liberals do not think that we conservatives actually believe in our ideals, since their version of objectivity states that all that has gone wrong throughout history owes its roots to conservatism, & so they couldn't possibly imagine someone taking those "conservative" ideas seriously.
- they categorize us Conservatives into one of several possibilities:
- Our variety of folk is to Leftism, what satan worshipers is to Christianity.
- We know the light, but choose to be on a corporations payroll.
- We could simply offer up 90% of our income to feed and cloth the have-not's, but our greed has blinded us from love.
- It is why we on the Right are Demons
- The Left put them in the second category, as being misinformed, and are therefore excused by their "innocence."
- minorities cannot be corrupt
- The Left makes excuses for the "powerless,"
- they think their primitive ways can all be solved by smart, intellectual, evolved, and nuanced Leftist Education.
*** I'm gonna stop now, I wonder if you can see that so far almost your entire post is included in the "broad brush". ***

For the second, I don't think I need to explain, I'll just post your words again:
Education is overvalued, and utterly worthless in 90% of US colleges.

I don't know, maybe our definition of utterly worthless is different.

No, I meant... can you show how the things that I said is a broad brush generalization of reality. If you are incapable of doing so, that is okay. Either every point listed above is either an accurate reflection of reality, or it isn't. And if it isn't, then please argue why. If it is, then I don't see what the issue is.

And in any event... You didn't answer anything, you just dismissed it as being not answer-worthy. Which is fine. But that is the Leftist tendency, to Dismiss and Describe, but never Answer.

I trust that the readers see the broad brush you are using to demonize an entire group. You speak as if all of them agree or practice what you claim.

Then, you lump me in with the same group you demonize without even knowing my political standings. I submit once again, that your brush is too broad (about the left), and you will simply demonize anyone that disagrees with you, even to the point where you will lump them into a group that they don't belong to.

[99percentatheism]

...

The reason for the decline in Christianity in Europe is because of an increase in education. The same trend can be seen in the U. S., tho' it is not as dramatic, it has the same cause. Conservative, fundamentalist religion, whether Christian or Islamic, is undermined by education. The same force, education, is the engine that has resulted in a majority of Americans accepting gay marriage. This is a huge shift in American politics and was recently discussed in a TIME cover story.

That is the leftist assumption. This is also why Liberals do not think that we conservatives actually believe in our ideals, since their version of objectivity states that all that has gone wrong throughout history owes its roots to conservatism, & so they couldn't possibly imagine someone taking those "conservative" ideas seriously.

So they categorize us Conservatives into one of several possibilities:

• 1.) He/She doesn't know any better, is mentally inept, stupid.
  2.) He/She could know better, but is misinformed.
  3.) He/She knows better, but has bad motivations.

Conservatives are routinely thrown into the 3rd category. Our variety of folk is to Leftism, what satan worshipers is to Christianity. We know the light, but choose to be on a corporations payroll. We could simply offer up 90% of our income to feed and cloth the have-not's, but our greed has blinded us from love.

It is why we on the Right are Demons, whereas a muslim or Hindu who also opposes Gay Marriage are not necessarily looked down upon. The Left put them in the second category, as being misinformed, and are therefore excused by their "innocence." If they are extremists who go about lynching homosexuals, they may be of the first or second variety, but are still granted innocence if they are non-white, because minorities cannot be corrupt, because they don't have "power." The Left makes excuses for the "powerless," and they think their primitive ways can all be solved by smart, intellectual, evolved, and nuanced Leftist Education.

Education is therefore, there raison d'etat, and the key, in their view, to destroying ignorance, and bringing people over to leftism. Especially the type of "ignorance" that Leftists often cite Fox News as perpetuating, in what it sees as a war to "misinform" the populace, by creating ideological right-wing drones who don't know any better then the ideological drivel they've been brainwashed into regurgitating.

That's why you attach "Smart" to things like growth, and car, and democracy. To denote that you are more morally evolved and intellectually seasoned, then your conservative counterparts, because they have been "educated" in a more enlightening views then their suburban living SUV driving fascist Americans on the Right. Education is overvalued, and utterly worthless in 90% of US colleges. They don't teach you how to think, but what to think about. They are leftists seminary, meant to instruct incoming students, in how to be Leftists.

• It is not a matter of Education, but a matter of Values, that divides the Left and the Right. And that divide is unbridgeable, not because of education, but because these values we hold are antithetical to each other. You worship Diversity(Multiculturalism), and we worship E Pluribus Unum... utter opposites.

Your brush is too broad, and I laugh at you for the part in bold (worthless?).

Care to flesh out your dismissal? Of this being too broad, too sweeping? Dismiss and Describe. That is the Leftist calling card. They cannot compete intellectually in philosophical argumentation, so they don't answer, because they can't. Or maybe they can, but they are just holding out.

Sure!
(For your brush that is too broad)
- That is the leftist assumption.
- This is also why Liberals do not think that we conservatives actually believe in our ideals, since their version of objectivity states that all that has gone wrong throughout history owes its roots to conservatism, & so they couldn't possibly imagine someone taking those "conservative" ideas seriously.
- they categorize us Conservatives into one of several possibilities:
- Our variety of folk is to Leftism, what satan worshipers is to Christianity.
- We know the light, but choose to be on a corporations payroll.
- We could simply offer up 90% of our income to feed and cloth the have-not's, but our greed has blinded us from love.
- It is why we on the Right are Demons
- The Left put them in the second category, as being misinformed, and are therefore excused by their "innocence."
- minorities cannot be corrupt
- The Left makes excuses for the "powerless,"
- they think their primitive ways can all be solved by smart, intellectual, evolved, and nuanced Leftist Education.
*** I'm gonna stop now, I wonder if you can see that so far almost your entire post is included in the "broad brush". ***

For the second, I don't think I need to explain, I'll just post your words again:
Education is overvalued, and utterly worthless in 90% of US colleges.

I don't know, maybe our definition of utterly worthless is different.

No, I meant... can you show how the things that I said is a broad brush generalization of reality. If you are incapable of doing so, that is okay. Either every point listed above is either an accurate reflection of reality, or it isn't. And if it isn't, then please argue why. If it is, then I don't see what the issue is.

And in any event... You didn't answer anything, you just dismissed it as being not answer-worthy. Which is fine. But that is the Leftist tendency, to Dismiss and Describe, but never Answer.

I trust that the readers see the broad brush you are using to demonize an entire group. You speak as if all of them agree or practice what you claim.

Then, you lump me in with the same group you demonize without even knowing my political standings. I submit once again, that your brush is too broad (about the left), and you will simply demonize anyone that disagrees with you, even to the point where you will lump them into a group that they don't belong to.

As a reader, I believe that the depiction of a liberal/leftist is just about perfect. Based on observation of the liberal-leftist. Although the very phrase is redundant.

To be lumped into the category you fit is simply pointing out reality. You can try to defend against this kind of a characterization though. This website and real life bear out the "lumping in" is simply being aware of "the signs of the times."

[Clownboat]

...

The reason for the decline in Christianity in Europe is because of an increase in education. The same trend can be seen in the U. S., tho' it is not as dramatic, it has the same cause. Conservative, fundamentalist religion, whether Christian or Islamic, is undermined by education. The same force, education, is the engine that has resulted in a majority of Americans accepting gay marriage. This is a huge shift in American politics and was recently discussed in a TIME cover story.

That is the leftist assumption. This is also why Liberals do not think that we conservatives actually believe in our ideals, since their version of objectivity states that all that has gone wrong throughout history owes its roots to conservatism, & so they couldn't possibly imagine someone taking those "conservative" ideas seriously.

So they categorize us Conservatives into one of several possibilities:

• 1.) He/She doesn't know any better, is mentally inept, stupid.
  2.) He/She could know better, but is misinformed.
  3.) He/She knows better, but has bad motivations.

Conservatives are routinely thrown into the 3rd category. Our variety of folk is to Leftism, what satan worshipers is to Christianity. We know the light, but choose to be on a corporations payroll. We could simply offer up 90% of our income to feed and cloth the have-not's, but our greed has blinded us from love.

It is why we on the Right are Demons, whereas a muslim or Hindu who also opposes Gay Marriage are not necessarily looked down upon. The Left put them in the second category, as being misinformed, and are therefore excused by their "innocence." If they are extremists who go about lynching homosexuals, they may be of the first or second variety, but are still granted innocence if they are non-white, because minorities cannot be corrupt, because they don't have "power." The Left makes excuses for the "powerless," and they think their primitive ways can all be solved by smart, intellectual, evolved, and nuanced Leftist Education.

Education is therefore, there raison d'etat, and the key, in their view, to destroying ignorance, and bringing people over to leftism. Especially the type of "ignorance" that Leftists often cite Fox News as perpetuating, in what it sees as a war to "misinform" the populace, by creating ideological right-wing drones who don't know any better then the ideological drivel they've been brainwashed into regurgitating.

That's why you attach "Smart" to things like growth, and car, and democracy. To denote that you are more morally evolved and intellectually seasoned, then your conservative counterparts, because they have been "educated" in a more enlightening views then their suburban living SUV driving fascist Americans on the Right. Education is overvalued, and utterly worthless in 90% of US colleges. They don't teach you how to think, but what to think about. They are leftists seminary, meant to instruct incoming students, in how to be Leftists.

• It is not a matter of Education, but a matter of Values, that divides the Left and the Right. And that divide is unbridgeable, not because of education, but because these values we hold are antithetical to each other. You worship Diversity(Multiculturalism), and we worship E Pluribus Unum... utter opposites.

Your brush is too broad, and I laugh at you for the part in bold (worthless?).

Care to flesh out your dismissal? Of this being too broad, too sweeping? Dismiss and Describe. That is the Leftist calling card. They cannot compete intellectually in philosophical argumentation, so they don't answer, because they can't. Or maybe they can, but they are just holding out.

Sure!
(For your brush that is too broad)
- That is the leftist assumption.
- This is also why Liberals do not think that we conservatives actually believe in our ideals, since their version of objectivity states that all that has gone wrong throughout history owes its roots to conservatism, & so they couldn't possibly imagine someone taking those "conservative" ideas seriously.
- they categorize us Conservatives into one of several possibilities:
- Our variety of folk is to Leftism, what satan worshipers is to Christianity.
- We know the light, but choose to be on a corporations payroll.
- We could simply offer up 90% of our income to feed and cloth the have-not's, but our greed has blinded us from love.
- It is why we on the Right are Demons
- The Left put them in the second category, as being misinformed, and are therefore excused by their "innocence."
- minorities cannot be corrupt
- The Left makes excuses for the "powerless,"
- they think their primitive ways can all be solved by smart, intellectual, evolved, and nuanced Leftist Education.
*** I'm gonna stop now, I wonder if you can see that so far almost your entire post is included in the "broad brush". ***

For the second, I don't think I need to explain, I'll just post your words again:
Education is overvalued, and utterly worthless in 90% of US colleges.

I don't know, maybe our definition of utterly worthless is different.

No, I meant... can you show how the things that I said is a broad brush generalization of reality. If you are incapable of doing so, that is okay. Either every point listed above is either an accurate reflection of reality, or it isn't. And if it isn't, then please argue why. If it is, then I don't see what the issue is.

And in any event... You didn't answer anything, you just dismissed it as being not answer-worthy. Which is fine. But that is the Leftist tendency, to Dismiss and Describe, but never Answer.

I trust that the readers see the broad brush you are using to demonize an entire group. You speak as if all of them agree or practice what you claim.

Then, you lump me in with the same group you demonize without even knowing my political standings. I submit once again, that your brush is too broad (about the left), and you will simply demonize anyone that disagrees with you, even to the point where you will lump them into a group that they don't belong to.

As a reader, I believe that the depiction of a liberal/leftist is just about perfect. Based on observation of the liberal-leftist. Although the very phrase is redundant.

To be lumped into the category you fit is simply pointing out reality. You can try to defend against this kind of a characterization though. This website and real life bear out the "lumping in" is simply being aware of "the signs of the times."

You have previously referred to me as a godless atheists, and now a leftist.
I wonder what your third strike will be? I'm a Muslim too perhaps?

I submit, that you, just like Market, seem to need to view people that disagree with you as an enemy. It's unfortunate, but I don't know what to do to get you to stop using broad, inaccurate labels, other than to point it out.

There is a difference when one person points out how the behavior of another person fits the actual definition of let's say, suffering from religious paranoia when compared to using a broad brush to describe an entire group of individuals just so you can claim that someone that disagrees with you belongs to said definition/group.

I have given examples of your posts and shown the definition of religious paranoia, to illustrate how it's possible that it could be a cause. I have not invented some broad sweeping definition and then an empty claim that you belong to said group. Maybe you do and maybe you don't.

You and Market don't seem willing to offer the same courtesy, which is why I say that it seem you just make enemies out of anyone that disagrees.

Please debate me, not the inaccurate labels you want to place on me.

[Danmark]

You would be far more cultured and matured, to take $150,000($200,000 if you go to an Ivy league or private school) and just travel the world for 4 years, meeting different people, hearing their stories, connecting with them on a human level, visiting museums in Europe, learning new languages and a whole array of life skills, managing your money and time, seeing India on the back of an elephant, visiting Hong Kong and Singapore, hearing a concert in vienna, making friends along the way, maybe meeting the love of your life, trying foods you've never tasted, maybe exploring a few religious/philosophical paths, it would be more of an eye-opener, and life-changing, and elevating, then attending Columbia or UC Berkeley, for four years.

Whether or not that is true, it is heartening to hear that once again you have reversed one of your spectacularly incorrect and extremist statements that higher education should be limited to studying the industrial arts and vocational training.

Earlier you claimed that the only proper use of college was for job training. Now you acknowledge a much broader range of education that is valuable. Why should anyone take anything you say seriously when you constantly reverse yourself?

[Danmark]

....

As a reader, I believe that the depiction of a liberal/leftist is just about perfect. Based on observation of the liberal-leftist. Although the very phrase is redundant.

To be lumped into the category you fit is simply pointing out reality. You can try to defend against this kind of a characterization though. This website and real life bear out the "lumping in" is simply being aware of "the signs of the times."

I'm having trouble deciphering this incoherent assemblage of words. All I can get from it is an example of the distinction between typing and writing. Perhaps you could rephrase this accretion of words into some form that suggests a thought.

Let me offer a helpful hint: try typing complete sentences.

[Danmark]

What an utterly smug and elitist opinion. . . .

I thought I should make a confession. I am a bit smug and elitist, tho' not about any of the biases you wrongly ascribed to me.

I have a bias against semi literate pretentiousness and the self serving smugness that accompanies many of the self righteous tribe who condemn homosexuals without understanding them. I have a bias against much of American culture with its violent gun toting cowboy mentality. Some of the most eloquent words I've ever heard came from people who never went to college, but spoke from the heart about those they've loved and lost. In contrast, some of the dumbest things I've ever heard came from the mouths of college graduates whose ignorance comes from a mind set that no amount of formal education can ever correct.

I am biased and admittedly elitist about loud talkers in movies and other public places who are oblivious to how stupid they sound as they inflict their ignorance on others. Tho' I understand everyone has a right to privacy and the pursuit of sex and money and power, I don't like the element of our culture that publicly blasts us with a never ending stream of sexual exploitation, consumerism and the worship of material wealth and power.

I am elitist about my judgments not because some ancient book so advises, but because to me it is simply ugly, wrong, stupid, and thoughtless to worship sex, money, and power as if those things denoted true value in a person. Those popular shrines appeal to the worst aspects of our character and yes, I may be an elitist to reject those aspects of American culture.

[KCKID]

What an utterly smug and elitist opinion. . . .

I thought I should make a confession. I am a bit smug and elitist, tho' not about any of the biases you wrongly ascribed to me.

I have a bias against semi literate pretentiousness and the self serving smugness that accompanies many of the self righteous tribe who condemn homosexuals without understanding them. I have a bias against much of American culture with its violent gun toting cowboy mentality. Some of the most eloquent words I've ever heard came from people who never went to college, but spoke from the heart about those they've loved and lost. In contrast, some of the dumbest things I've ever heard came from the mouths of college graduates whose ignorance comes from a mind set that no amount of formal education can ever correct.

I am biased and admittedly elitist about loud talkers in movies and other public places who are oblivious to how stupid they sound as they inflict their ignorance on others. Tho' I understand everyone has a right to privacy and the pursuit of sex and money and power, I don't like the element of our culture that publicly blasts us with a never ending stream of sexual exploitation, consumerism and the worship of material wealth and power.

I am elitist about my judgments not because some ancient book so advises, but because to me it is simply ugly, wrong, stupid, and thoughtless to worship sex, money, and power as if those things denoted true value in a person. Those popular shrines appeal to the worst aspects of our character and yes, I may be an elitist to reject those aspects of American culture.

Well said, Danmark, if I be permitted to offer a one line comment.

[otseng]

As a reader, I believe that the depiction of a liberal/leftist is just about perfect. Based on observation of the liberal-leftist. Although the very phrase is redundant.

To be lumped into the category you fit is simply pointing out reality. You can try to defend against this kind of a characterization though. This website and real life bear out the "lumping in" is simply being aware of "the signs of the times."

Moderator Action

This is not the first time you have placed labels on others. Seeing that this thread has gone longer than it should, I'm shutting it down.


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