The Gay Denomination?

[99percentatheism]

The Gay Denomination.

For those people that desire same gender sexual behavior or thoughts, AND that claim to be a Christian and claim that their beliefs and theology can fit the New Testament witness, instead of waging an endless, fruitless and vicious war on other Christians - that will NEVER accept their gay doctrines and dogmas . . ., - why won't they just declare a new and alternative denomination, just like Watch Tower theological adherants and Mormons?

Why the need to join forces with anti-Christian and secularist movements to attack "Bible believing" Christians?

Afterall, in referencing the New Testament, there is no justifiable comparison of sex acts to being a slave (slavery), or the charge of bigotry and hatefulness in holding that marriage is a man and a woman.

Why not just start an "Out and Proud" Gay Denomination?

[99percentatheism]

Danmark

....
I have come to know your style of belief system all to well. It is the spirit of this age. From the rise of humanism to the power of the homosexual community. I've never said that this power isn't derived from very cunning and intelligent entities.

It boils down to anything goes. Of course it does. This is the story of mankind and the Bible details it and how it looks. ....

Your view represents one of the problems that arises when religion is used to justify discrimination against a group of people. Religion isn't the only culprit, just one of the influences more resistent to change due to better education and understanding.

You seriously do not see the millions and millions of abortions, other "unwanted prgnancies" AIDS "epidiemic" in THE GAY COMMUNITY, the loss of virginity in elementary school, the ubiquity of porn use by children, sexual slavery in the western world, etc., etc., etc..? You do realize that "gay and lesbian" positions are purely sexist right?

The psychological community has had its own problems in this regard, improperly classifying homosexuality in its 1952 edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.

Oh really? It could be just as easily charged that it was when gay activists climbed the ranks of the APA that suddnely gay behavior became "normal." Even though it violates the biology of the mammalian anatomy.

In 1952, the APA listed homosexuality in the DSM as a sociopathic personality disturbance. Homosexuality: A Psychoanalytic Study of Male Homosexuals, a large-scale 1962 study of homosexuality, was used to justify inclusion of the disorder as a supposed pathological hidden fear of the opposite sex caused by traumatic parent–child relationships. This view was widely influential in the medical profession. In 1956, however, the psychologist Evelyn Hooker performed a study that compared the happiness and well-adjusted nature of self-identified homosexual men with heterosexual men and found no difference. Her study stunned the medical community and made her a hero to many gay men and lesbians, but homosexuality remained in the DSM until May 1974.
_ Wikipedia

Wikipedia? I guess the Stonewall Bar wasn't the place to find young male prostitutes before the whitewashing of history?

This highlights one of the differences between religion and science. Science learns, changes, grows and aids our understanding of the world. Religion, at least your version of it, gives aid and comfort to bigotry and resists an honest search for truth.

Are you seriously claiming that Christians change their worldviews to meet the demands of non and anti Christians?

We are only now coming out of a Centuries long history of racial bigotry.

I'll bet ten-bucks that you know nothing of the darwinian stance that negroes weren't humans?

The Bible was long used to perpetuate the idea that certain races were inferior and contemptible.

Like most of Europeans have done for centuries or longer?

Pseudo science and the law were both used to buttress these false beliefs. The parallel between man's legacy of racism and its views on homosexuality is obvious.

Only in carefully crafted propaganda.

Anti-Christian propaganda.

[99percentatheism]

You do bring up a good point. The answer to bad religion is good religion. Not no religion...

It is one of my many missions to reach out to Gays, as a Jew, and make them more halachic and ethical, in both their beliefs and behavior.

And you will have to do that in a Gay Temple or Synagouge congregation. You'll have the same issue with the Torah-observant "Jews" (orthodoxy is important) as LGBT's and their legion of supporters have with the Bible-affirming Christians.

As is commonly the case, from liberalism is the jettisoning of belief. A natural progression.

[mitty]

[Replying to post 1876 by 99percentatheism]

So how do you define an hermaphrodite? Are they male or female? Or does it depend on the presence or not of a Y chromosome? And if maleness depends on having a Y chromosome, then how do you define a person with Swyer syndrome who has a Y chromosome, but has a small penis (usually called a clitoris) and their labia haven't been fused to form a scrotum?

[99percentatheism]

Danmark

....
The LGBT "cause" is certainly about dismantling Christianity. They hostility of LGBT activism is no longer as whitewashed as it once was. The Chick-fil-A issue proved that. I make that claim most openly everyhwere I post. It is a matter of apologetics.

What seems more likely? The gays are out to get you and your church?

Go to soulforce.org and see.... Thanks! Great site! And as usual you are wrong on this issue. This is a site that takes the Bible seriously:

LIKE YOU, I TAKE THE BIBLE SERIOUSLY!
Many good people build their case against homosexuality almost entirely on the Bible. These folks value Scripture, and are serious about seeking its guidance in their lives. Unfortunately, many of them have never really studied what the Bible does and doesn’t say about homosexuality.

We gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender Christians take the Bible seriously, too. Personally, I’ve spent more than 50 years reading, studying, memorizing, preaching, and teaching from the sacred texts. I earned my master’s and doctoral degrees at a conservative biblical seminary to better equip myself to “rightly divide the word of truth.� I learned Hebrew and Greek to gain a better understanding of the original words of the biblical texts. I studied the lives and times of the biblical authors to help me know what they were saying in their day so I could better apply it to my own.

rightly dividing the word of truth, II Timothy 2:15

I’m convinced the Bible has a powerful message for gay and lesbian Christians — as well as straight Christians. But it’s not the message of condemnation we so often hear.

I’m not expecting you to take my word for it, though. I ask only that you’d consider what my research has taught me about the passages used by some people to condemn God’s gay and lesbian children. Then decide for yourself…

MY FIRST PREMISE:
Most people have not carefully and prayerfully researched the biblical texts often used to condemn God’s lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender children.

As you may know, biblical ignorance is an epidemic in the United States. A recent study quoted by Dr. Peter Gomes in The Good Book found that 38 percent of Americans polled were certain the Old Testament was written a few years after Jesus’ death. Ten percent believed Joan of Arc was Noah’s wife. Many even thought the epistles were the wives of the apostles.

This same kind of biblical ignorance is all too present around the topic of homosexuality. Often people who love and trust God’s Word have never given careful and prayerful attention to what the Bible does or doesn’t say about homosexuality.

For example, many Christians don’t know that:

Jesus says nothing about same-sex behavior.
The Jewish prophets are silent about homosexuality.
Only six or seven of the Bible’s one million verses refer to same-sex behavior in any way — and none of these verses refer to homosexual orientation as it’s understood today.

Soulforce was started by a guy that is an adulterer and commits abomination with a same gender partner. And of course:

Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

- Paul to Christians in Rome

As a result, they do not live the rest of their earthly lives for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God. For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do—living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry. They are surprised that you do not join them in their reckless, wild living, and they heap abuse on you.

- Peter, to fellow Christians

Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people. For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you.

They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

Jude, to fellow Christians

We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

- Paul to the young Pastor Timothy

Here is a trustworthy saying: Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task. Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full respect. (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?)

- Paul to Timothy

And of course it needs saying. A"wife" is the married partner of a man, her "husband." There is no such thing as same gender marriage in Christian truth.

The reason I left you in Crete was that you might put in order what was left unfinished and appoint elders in every town, as I directed you. An elder must be blameless, faithful to his wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.

Since an overseer manages God’s household, he must be blameless—not overbearing, not quick-tempered, not given to drunkenness, not violent, not pursuing dishonest gain. Rather, he must be hospitable, one who loves what is good, who is self-controlled, upright, holy and disciplined. He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.

For there are many rebellious people, full of meaningless talk and deception, especially those of the circumcision group. They must be silenced, because they are disrupting whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach—and that for the sake of dishonest gain.

- Paul, to another young Pastor Titus, sent to Crete

Crete is reported to be the place where Pederasty was developed. Pederasty is homosexuality.

[99percentatheism]

[Replying to post 1876 by 99percentatheism]

So how do you define an hermaphrodite? Are they male or female? Or does it depend on the presence or not of a Y chromosome? And if maleness depends on having a Y chromosome, then how do you define a person with Swyer syndrome who has a Y chromosome, but has a small penis (usually called a clitoris) and their labia haven't been fused to form a scrotum?

Congenital deformity. Genetic abnormality.

So you have just proven that a "normal" person with normally formed genitalia and normal chromosomes, has no right to say that they are "homosexual" as a congenital condition.

So conservative Bible-affirming Christians are proven as honest and honorable.

Thank you.

[99percentatheism]

mitty

KCKID:

KID,
Do you really believe this is about sexual purity and holy matrimony? ."

What is holy matrimony and where is it described in the bible?

Mathew and Mark. By Jesus. defined as such also in the writings.

Or is it just another church sacrament which was introduced to raise money for the church, like the confessional and indulgences etc?

Ask a Catholic.

My first reaction is to agree with you that if it has anything to do with furthering the social and govermental power of the Roman Catholic Church, it is to be suspect.

Now, if you would be so kind, please produce one piece of scripture that celebrates a same gender "marriage" OR that affirms a homosexual encounter as appropriate?

And yes, you can use David and Jonathan, Ruth and Naomi or the Roman Commander and his slave. And of course there's always the eunuch. Of corse that one is way out there but it seems ubiquotous as well in gay theology.

So please . . . if you will?

Where does the bible define what holy matrimony is? Answer: According to the bible a biblical marriage is simply a personal agreement between two people only, and does not require a marriage celebrant or a signed marriage contract or witnesses or any of the other wedding hoo ha. And it certainly doesn't require a recognized drunkard (Matt 11:19) to irresponsibly supply an extra truck-load of grog to an already drunk wedding party using a simple party conjuring-trick (John 2:1-10). Therefore any defacto relationship, previously referred to as "living-in-sin", is an acceptable marriage according to the bible.

Given that any monogamous relationship is a marriage according to the bible, albeit between two different genders, what is your real objection to two people wanting to protect their legal civil rights by signing a marriage/partnership agreement with or without a wedding celebration, since it is not biblically based and a civil matter only? Moreover, sexual relationships between women are not even mentioned in the bible, and Jesus didn't even mention anything about sexual relationships between men, let alone condemned them.

Yours is pretty standard lib fare. No where do I ever address the actions of non and anti Christians in what they want to call their supposed life commitments. This is not about what Bible-affirming Christians do accurately with the truth of the Biblical fact of marriage as man and woman. This is about a Gay Denomination and the people that dwell there and the theology that is produced there.

Since Jesus showed that His religious life was Orthodox Israelite, and He taught the Torah in context, same gender marriage isn't even a concept, let alone approved via silence. It dwells more accurately in pagan practices, if we are to assume what it meant to a Jew that takes the Torah as seriously as Jesus did.

I wish the libs here would stop all the canned insults towards a Christian that refuses to accept the corrupting influence of the secular world as authority they must submit to. No liberal or non or anti Christian can show even the slightest Biblical support for what the LGBT community and culture peddles.

[marketandchurch]

Just because someone is Gay, does not mean that they therefore want to destroy Christianity.

But the LGBT community as a political and cultural force, do want to destroy Christianity, because they are on the Left, and the Left has a narrative wherein evil comes from beyond, not from within, and if the human being is basically good, and if evil comes from beyond, then it is institutional, and institutionally perpetuated.

They see all of the evil's of history, from slavery, to monarchy, to the subjugation of women, to hanging homosexuals, colonialism, as being institutional. And they also view the institution of Christianity, as not only the perpetuator of this tradition of evil historically speaking, but the inheritors and current carriers of that tradition today. So it is, from the point of view of the Left, an imperative that Christianity be destroyed. They think that if they can destroy Christianity, they can destroy conservatism, and to a large degree, they are right.

[99percentatheism]

marketandchurch

Just because someone is Gay, does not mean that they therefore want to destroy Christianity.

The driver of the getaway car in a bank robbery is just as guilty of bank robbing as are the actual robbers IN the bank.

But the LGBT community as a political and cultural force, do want to destroy Christianity, because they are on the Left, and the Left has a narrative wherein evil comes from beyond, not from within, and if the human being is basically good, and if evil comes from beyond, then it is institutional, and institutionally perpetuated.

Do the demons see their group and behaviors as evil? Did the Vikings see their behaviors and group as evil?

They see all of the evil's of history, from slavery, to monarchy, to the subjugation of women, to hanging homosexuals, colonialism, as being institutional.

It's fascinating that they are all well defined in the secular world and worldview. Instututionalized liberalism is actually killing massive numbers of people through the permissiveness that is cause and effect of liberalism.

And they also view the institution of Christianity, as not only the perpetuator of this tradition of evil historically speaking, but the inheritors and current carriers of that tradition today.

Through a calculated humanist propaganda. Christianity has been an incredible force of good to the mordernizing western world. The Vikings became Christians and stopped raping and pillaging.

So it is, from the point of view of the Left, an imperative that Christianity be destroyed.

Whatever side of the gay debate you are on, I appreciate your accurate history here.

They think that if they can destroy Christianity, they can destroy conservatism, and to a large degree, they are right.

Satan thought the same thing about Job.

All they can do to Christians is what they did in the great persecutions. Christianity, as in "The Church," cannot and will not be destroyed by the likes of what "The Left" represents in today's world. It can be seriously affected by it, but only in the picking off of some people to the dark side. The Church is configured as is the Jewish people. Diaspora and a wide array of congregations is a safe place and good strategy to keep from being rounded up like sheep and slaughtered. "The Church " is a product of Torah-Observant "Jews," or rather, the people Isreal. And no power on Earth can wipe that away until Ha Shem is done with Earth.

But let's get back on track to the OP . . .

[marketandchurch]

marketandchurch

Just because someone is Gay, does not mean that they therefore want to destroy Christianity.

The driver of the getaway car in a bank robbery is just as guilty of bank robbing as are the actual robbers IN the bank.

But the LGBT community as a political and cultural force, do want to destroy Christianity, because they are on the Left, and the Left has a narrative wherein evil comes from beyond, not from within, and if the human being is basically good, and if evil comes from beyond, then it is institutional, and institutionally perpetuated.

Do the demons see their group and behaviors as evil? Did the Vikings see their behaviors and group as evil?

They see all of the evil's of history, from slavery, to monarchy, to the subjugation of women, to hanging homosexuals, colonialism, as being institutional.

It's fascinating that they are all well defined in the secular world and worldview. Instututionalized liberalism is actually killing massive numbers of people through the permissiveness that is cause and effect of liberalism.

And they also view the institution of Christianity, as not only the perpetuator of this tradition of evil historically speaking, but the inheritors and current carriers of that tradition today.

Through a calculated humanist propaganda. Christianity has been an incredible force of good to the mordernizing western world. The Vikings became Christians and stopped raping and pillaging.

So it is, from the point of view of the Left, an imperative that Christianity be destroyed.

Whatever side of the gay debate you are on, I appreciate your accurate history here.

They think that if they can destroy Christianity, they can destroy conservatism, and to a large degree, they are right.

Satan thought the same thing about Job.

All they can do to Christians is what they did in the great persecutions. Christianity, as in "The Church," cannot and will not be destroyed by the likes of what "The Left" represents in today's world. It can be seriously affected by it, but only in the picking off of some people to the dark side. The Church is configured as is the Jewish people. Diaspora and a wide array of congregations is a safe place and good strategy to keep from being rounded up like sheep and slaughtered. "The Church " is a product of Torah-Observant "Jews," or rather, the people Isreal. And no power on Earth can wipe that away until Ha Shem is done with Earth.

But let's get back on track to the OP . . .

So a Gay who opposes LGBT efforts to destroy marriage, and subsequently, Christianity, is at fault for the destruction of marriage, and christianity? I don't quite follow that.

On the issue of Evil... no one wakes up asking how they can hurt or destroy something. The Left doesn't think they are destroying Christianity, they think they are saving Christians from themselves, and saving the world from Christianity.

Christianity, as a force for good, has no moral equivalent in history. No other institution has fed more hungry, clothed more naked, healed more sick, housed more homeless, taught more people to read, gave more people employment, and lifted more people out of a life of barbarism, then Christianity. And there is no close second.

The Job example doesn't work, because the point of that story wasn't about Job's resolve, it was about Job's inability to comprehend God. If Christianity fails, that is it, and a world of cruelty, unlike anything we've ever seen, will ensue. It's already happening... look at the pathetic state of the European Union? When has a Frenchman or a Swede ever died liberating the oppressed? If America becomes another Sweden, and the Cross fails here as it had in Europe, then cruelty and suffering will be uncontrollable, only this time, it'll be far far worse then at any point in history, because of the collective amassed powers of the Modern State.

If you are a conservative... then don't make the leftist naive assumption of "We'll be the exception in history." Never say Never. Who thought that Christianity would largely die out on the European continent? Being wiped off the earth is not what I'm talking about. If Europeans were at one point 90% Christian, and are now 25% Christian, it is safe to say that they are not only dying out, but have died out enough to be irrelevant in shaping society, and the world, which is all that really matters in the final analysis.

[Danmark]

....The Left doesn't think they are destroying Christianity, they think they are saving Christians from themselves, and saving the world from Christianity.

....
If you are a conservative... then don't make the leftist naive assumption of "We'll be the exception in history." Never say Never. Who thought that Christianity would largely die out on the European continent? Being wiped off the earth is not what I'm talking about. If Europeans were at one point 90% Christian, and are now 25% Christian, it is safe to say that they are not only dying out, but have died out enough to be irrelevant in shaping society, and the world, which is all that really matters in the final analysis.

....
You appear to have a habit of making blanket statements about what you call 'the left.' The fallacy of such statements is easily demonstrated by the existence of liberal Christianity. Try googling 'liberal Christianity' or even 'left wing Christian.'

The reason for the decline in Christianity in Europe is because of an increase in education. The same trend can be seen in the U. S., tho' it is not as dramatic, it has the same cause. Conservative, fundamentalist religion, whether Christian or Islamic, is undermined by education. The same force, education, is the engine that has resulted in a majority of Americans accepting gay marriage. This is a huge shift in American politics and was recently discussed in a TIME cover story.