Would anyone have listened to Jesus

[Elijah John]

If the real, historical Jesus in the Monotheistic culture of first century Judaism had actually gone around claiming to be YHVH God in the flesh, would anyone have believed him and listened to anything he had to say?

Or is it more likely they would have dismissed him as insane?

[imhereforyou]

If the real, historical Jesus in the Monotheistic culture of first century Judaism had actually gone around claiming to be YHVH God in the flesh, would anyone have believed him and listened to anything he had to say?

Or is it more likely they would have dismissed him as insane?

Can't really say many listened to him at the time past his select few, maybe a wife or two of three (depending on what story you read and believe) and a few politicians of his day.

Not much different than many cult leaders of today - some even claimed to be Jesus and/or God's son.

[Monta]

[Replying to post 41 by imhereforyou]


"Can't really say many listened to him at the time past his select few, maybe a wife or two of three (depending on what story you read and believe) and a few politicians of his day."

..maybe a wife or two or three..

What are you talking about?

[Danmark]

If the real, historical Jesus in the Monotheistic culture of first century Judaism had actually gone around claiming to be YHVH God in the flesh, would anyone have believed him and listened to anything he had to say?

Or is it more likely they would have dismissed him as insane?

Charles Manson just died. He was 83. He and his cult are well documented in Helter Skelter, Bugliosi.
How did such an obviously evil, poorly educated man like Manson develop a cult following and attract people and convince them to kill?
How did Jim Jones attract hundreds of people to follow him to Guyana where 907 (all but two there) died by taking poison of their own free will?*
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown

Millions, Billions of people are followers who eagerly follow a charismatic leader who promises them meaning and belonging and answers to their questions. The answer to your question is "The same reasons anyone follows any religious leader." It's just that some religions/belief systems seem wackier than others to outsiders.

Of all the Christian religions, the LDS faith seems the oddest to me, based on the beliefs and 'history' expressed in their scriptures. Yet I know many Mormons who are very decent, well educated, valuable people who contribute mightily to our world. Yet they believe a con man who told them an angel told him Hebrews came to North America 600 BCE, built civilizations and God turned half of them 'dark' because they were evil. The fact that there is no archaeological or genetic evidence for their wild claims does not deter them.


________________________________
* Some of this number were children. Their parents gave them the cyanide.

[PghPanther]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

Your inquiry assumes that this Christ actually said such things......

...it could very well be that the statements and quotes attributed to a Christ in the NT may be nothing more than embellished stories/words told through verbal exchanges by believers that took on a life of their own into the supernatural realm of embellishment before they were written down....

How do we evaluate 'love they neighbor as thyself'?
Does the meaning change whether Christ says it or someone else?

Of course it could change the meaning but that isn't half the problem.....understand now Christ is suppose to be the co-creator of the universe (as he is proclaimed in the 1st Chapter of the Gospel of John).

So if you buy that proclamation then this gem of a golden rule isn't very golden in reality after all.....

Let me tell you why............any person who a deity in flesh would know what science knows now.........that 1 % of the population has a genetic marker for sociopathic behavior and no amount of empathy and love will be of value to them or you in demonstrating that......so if you take that statement and apply it to someone who is a sociopath they will tear up your empathy and leave you spent....

If there was a Christ with a deity nature his statement to be truly wise and effective should have been something like......"Love your neighbor as yourself with those who can demonstrate over time by your love the ability to reciprocate such empathy as well"

So the golden rule that everyone raves about how wise it is coming from this Christ the way he is acclaimed to have stated it isn't so golden.........

[Monta]

[Replying to post 44 by PghPanther]


"If there was a Christ with a deity nature his statement to be truly wise and effective should have been something like......"Love your neighbor as yourself with those who can demonstrate over time by your love the ability to reciprocate such empathy as well" //

Not everyone is the neighbor as Jesus explained.

[Danmark]

Of course it could change the meaning but that isn't half the problem.....understand now Christ is suppose to be the co-creator of the universe (as he is proclaimed in the 1st Chapter of the Gospel of John).

So if you buy that proclamation then this gem of a golden rule isn't very golden in reality after all.....

Let me tell you why............any person who a deity in flesh would know what science knows now.........that 1 % of the population has a genetic marker for sociopathic behavior and no amount of empathy and love will be of value to them or you in demonstrating that......so if you take that statement and apply it to someone who is a sociopath they will tear up your empathy and leave you spent....

If there was a Christ with a deity nature his statement to be truly wise and effective should have been something like......"Love your neighbor as yourself with those who can demonstrate over time by your love the ability to reciprocate such empathy as well"

So the golden rule that everyone raves about how wise it is coming from this Christ the way he is acclaimed to have stated it isn't so golden.........

I don't believe in God or that Jesus was divine; however,
the point of Jesus' teaching was not to reform everyone or to cure sociopaths by being kind to them. The purpose of his message was to benefit giver. The person who helps is helped by being kind. We spiritually benefit from being good to others, even to those who are not from our tribe, even to those who are our enemies. That's why the golden rule IS golden. It goes against our nature. I am afraid that most who call themselves Christians, as well as people like me who believe in the following the 'Golden Rule,' do not do so. We generally do the opposite. We only help people we think 'deserve' it. That's a big reason the world is in the state it's in.

Tho' I confess I usually do not do this, the times I have treated with kindness, even people who seem horrible, they respond positively. Of course, it helps to also let them know they should not mistake courtesy for weakness.



When asked, 'Who is your neighbor?' Jesus replied:

“A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who stripped him and beat him and departed, leaving him half dead. Now by chance a priest was going down that road, and when he saw him he passed by on the other side. So likewise a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he journeyed, came to where he was, and when he saw him, he had compassion. He went to him and bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he set him on his own animal and brought him to an inn and took care of him. And the next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper, saying, ‘Take care of him, and whatever more you spend, I will repay you when I come back.’ Which of these three, do you think, proved to be a neighbor to the man who fell among the robbers?� He said, “The one who showed him mercy.� And Jesus said to him, “You go, and do likewise.�
_ Luke 10:30-37

“But I say to you who hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. To one who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also, and from one who takes away your cloak do not withhold your tunic either. Give to everyone who begs from you, and from one who takes away your goods do not demand them back. And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them.

“If you love those who love you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who do good to you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. And if you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to get back the same amount. But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind to the ungrateful and the evil.
_ Luke 6:27-35

One need not believe in God, or that Jesus was divine to appreciate him.

[Monta]

[Replying to post 44 by PghPanther]


"If there was a Christ with a deity nature his statement to be truly wise and effective should have been something like......"Love your neighbor as yourself with those who can demonstrate over time by your love the ability to reciprocate such empathy as well" //

It is easy to love those who are 'like us' for we judge from appearances.
But Life is One and we are partakers of the same Life. To love a nasty person is not loving their nastiness bur loving/respecting their creation

[imhereforyou]

[Replying to post 41 by imhereforyou]


"Can't really say many listened to him at the time past his select few, maybe a wife or two of three (depending on what story you read and believe) and a few politicians of his day."

..maybe a wife or two or three..

What are you talking about?

Not a lot of people listened to him even in his day - even those close to him. Why would we think it would be any different today?

[Monta]

[Replying to post 41 by imhereforyou]


"Can't really say many listened to him at the time past his select few, maybe a wife or two of three (depending on what story you read and believe) and a few politicians of his day."

..maybe a wife or two or three..

What are you talking about?

Not a lot of people listened to him even in his day - even those close to him. Why would we think it would be any different today?

Give us some references where yu got your information
(that is if you are Bible reader).

[imhereforyou]

[Replying to post 41 by imhereforyou]


"Can't really say many listened to him at the time past his select few, maybe a wife or two of three (depending on what story you read and believe) and a few politicians of his day."

..maybe a wife or two or three..

What are you talking about?

Not a lot of people listened to him even in his day - even those close to him. Why would we think it would be any different today?

Give us some references where yu got your information
(that is if you are Bible reader).

Reading some of the gospels, he had limited followers. Which means not all that listened to him followed him.
So it would seem that, if today (especially with science and more knowledge of the universe and likely more questions about it) he would have the same problem, if not more so
Plus, there have been others who claimed to be messiahs (a couple even Jesus reincarnated as it were) and they had limited followers even with the media coverage of the day.
I mean, there doesn't seem to have been many on the planet that listened to him then when the population was a lot less than today, so why should today be any different?
Would ANYONE listen to him? Of course.
But how many? With several billion people on the planet not, probably not many by a percentage.
But that's extrapolation of the story and weighed on today's population and compared to his day.
Maybe with all the people today, there's a more needy and easily swayed percentage today than in his day?