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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 6:49 pm  Questions for Jehovah Witness? Reply with quote

Do members of the Jehovah Witness organization
believe that Jesus was the Word as written of in...?

John
Chapter 1
1 In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him;
and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 21: Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:46 pm
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Hello. `

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--------------------------Hey. !

This is not making any sense. - The Contradiction is that The Bible says that they had not Been defiled among women. Among Females.

If these are Symbolic - MALE SPIRITUAL VIRGINS ) * males ( Male Spiritual Virgins ) as the Jehovah Witness Demands - Then - - Not Being Spiritualy / Symbolically Defiled By a WOMAN / FEMALE makes no sense.

A Spiritual Virgin ( Male Symbolic Virgin } - Can be SpirituaLLY defiled by following Both Man and Woman.

What is so special about a Spiritual Symbolic Virgin who is not DEFILED Among Woman. and IT SAYS NOTHING ABOUT hIS SPIRITUAL DEFILEMENT with other Males. ?

What is so scripurally Special about a Male Spiritual Virgin - Being not defiled by a Spiritual Woman.

I love absolutely Jehovah’s Witnesses people and have met some of them. But this is totally insane.

They are really nice people . Around the world Jehovah’s Witnesses are helping people and making the world a better place to so many people in need.

But - The Bible Says that the 144,000 VIRGINS had not been Defiled Among Woman or With Women.

And The Bible Says that they were 144,000 Virgins - Women. { Females.

*( Nothing here is Symbolic / In These passages, in the Bible.

Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled AMONG / or with women; for they are virgins.

The Scriptures are not Saying that these Virgins had abstained from having seX with other DEFILED women
- but that these / Female Virgins / had not been Defiled Among - The Woman. The Females.

Defiled Among Women.

This Greek Word meta - met-ah' -_ is the Greek 3326 μετά

Meta - met-ah' Meaning = Accompaniment; “ with - which it is joined; Occupying - Among - Together -

Among = Greek = Meta . .... This Greek word Meta is used in Verses such as Rev 21:3 God..... He will dwell with ( Among ) Meta them, and they shall be his people.

The fact that God is with them does not mean that They are Sexual partners with God. But that God will be Among or With them. The Verse is not saying that God will have seXual intercourse or have a certain type of Physical relations or perform any such actions of any kind with His people - but that he simply will Dwell with Meta them *( Among them.) accompaniment with his people.

This is what this Greek word Meta means. It does not describe a certain Action or Description of an action or doing. But that God would be Among or accompanying His people. The Greek word is a Meta is a A primary preposition. Prepositions are words such as the words - Aboard, Above, Across, After, Against or Among...............

One more eXample notice in Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet.

Notice the word with Meta in the Phrase . “with him the false prophet.”

The Verse is not stating that God will be taking the beast with the false prophet in sexual threesome. But that God will take them together and put them into a pit. The beast was taken with the false prophet. They were in accompaniment together but the verse does not state that they were having seX.

REMEMBER the Difference between saying - Defiled With Women and saying Defiled Among Women.

The Translators want You to believe that these virgins were Males. But I will show You more proof that they were Women.

Lets notice that Rev 14:4 also tells us that These Virgins *( Women / Females ) here - These *( Virgins ) were redeemed from men. But the Word “ Men “ here in the verse is not in Meaning or in Reference to a MALE But it is the Greek Word Anthrōpos or Anthropod Greek 444 Anthrōpos

anth'-ro-pos Meaning Manfaced, that is, A Human being: - Mankind. Humanity,

This Greek word Meaning a Human Being or Mankind is Used in Mat 4:4 Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

The Greek word Anthropos / Anthropod does not Mean a Male seX But it simply means a Human Being. It can be used for either or both. There is a Greek word for Male and a seperate Greek word for Male and a separate Greek word for Humanity, Mankind.

The 144,000 in Rev 14:4 - are in fact Females - Women - Virgins who are not defiled among ( Meta ) women and were taken out of Mankind *( From The Anthropods . / People ) in the earth .

REMEMBER There is no such a idea or concept of a Male Virgin. In the entire Bible, You will never find the idea of a Male Virgin. NEVER.

The Rev 14:4 verse goes on to say that these Woman / Virgins will be Singers for Jesus, *( The Lamb ) and Follow Him wherever he goes, Singing and Praising Him... They are Female, Virgins. Singers that Christ has Chosen.

Notice the Greek... Here. Mar 10:6 But G1161 from G575 the beginning G746 of the creation G2937 God G2316 made G4160 them G846 male G730 and G2532 female G2338.

The Greek Word Used in Scriptures for Male is Greek G730 ἄῤῥην, arrhēn / r-hrane meaning a Male.

The Greek Word Used in Scriptures for Female is Greek G2338 θῆλυς thēlus thay'-loos

Meaning a Female.. The 144,000 Virgins. Women - Not defiled among Women - taken from Mankind /Humanity.

redeemed from mankind. The Word “ Mankind “ here in the verse is not in Meaning or in Reference to a MALE - But it is the Greek Word Anthrōpos or Anthropod Greek 444 Anthrōpos

144,000 Virgin Woman were redeemed - from Mankind / FROM Anthropods. Not males. The Bible is Clear.
FROM Anthropods.

The jehovah Witness simply has no scriptures for His faith.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 22: Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:24 am
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Re: Hello. `

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Falling Light 101 wrote:
A Spiritual Virgin ( Male Symbolic Virgin } - Can be SpirituaLLY defiled by following Both Man and Woman.


The "females" spoken of in Revelation 14: 4 is symbolic; it refers neither to literal men or women but refers to spiritual virginity.

Quote:
"They have avoided spiritual adultery with worldly politics and with false religion. (James 4:4; Revelation 17:5) As the betrothed bride of Christ, they have kept themselves pure, “without a blemish in among a crooked and twisted generation.”—Philippians 2:15" - re29 p. 202 par 12


The Scriptures are not Saying that these Virgins had abstained from having sex with other DEFILED women

The scripture is not speaking about sex at all! Spiritual adultery does not involve sex its being unfaithful religiously to God (see above) it has nothing to do with fornicating with a female (or male) unbeliever.

Falling Light 101 wrote:
Nothing here is Symbolic / In These passages, in the Bible.


You are wrong about this, practically everything in the book of Revelation is symbolic.






Why do Jehovah's Witnesses depict the 144,000 as white men?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=879721#879721


Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:39 am; edited 2 times in total

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 23: Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:37 am
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Re: Hello. `

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Falling Light 101 wrote:
The fact that God is with them does not mean that They are Sexual partners with God.


Are you suggesting this is what Jehovah's Witnesses teach? That JWs believe that the faithful have sex with God?!


JW

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 24: Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:46 am
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144,000

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.

REMEMBER - The Scripture is Not literally saying that these Virgins have Abstained, Refrain and Withheld and Withdrawn from engaging in improper Spiritual or Physical relationships with OTHER WOMEN.

But it is simply declaring that these Virgins were Un Defiled Among or along side of / Or With The Other Woman of the Earth

Because of the fact that They were Virgins - And they were REDEEMED From out of The Arthropods, / Mankind. Humanity.

- In Rev 14:4 - These ( Virgins ) are they which were not defiled With / Among women; - For / Because they are virgins.

Your Translations Say - " These were redeemed from among men."

The Translators did not tell You that this Greek Word ( MEN ) is not Male. It is The Word - The Arthropods, / Mankind. Humanity.

Not Males.

And - The Greek word WITH - is always used as meaning accompaniment Such as in Mat 20:20 Then came to him the mother of Zebedee's children WITH her sons, worshipping him.

Zebedee's children were WITH their Mother.

WITH - is the Greek Word Meta and simply means along side of, accompanying with. IN COMPANY WITH. Meta is a Reference of position to the Subjects. Meta alone does Not place the subjects in any activity or actions

Meta is Not meaning as engaging in sexuality. Meta does not give a physical Attribution or Physical action to the Nouns or People. It is a Reference of position, Showing that The Subjects are together, Joined in a Close proximity or united Space to be mentioned in a sentence that describes them together in an idea that MUST BE FORMED BY OTHER WORDS ADDED.

MUST always BE FORMED BY OTHER ADDED WORDS..

The Word Meta is Greek 3326 μετά / meta / met-ah'
A primary preposition (often used adverbially); properly denoting accompaniment;

association, or accusative case succession) with which it is joined; occupying an intermediate position . With . Often used in composition, in substantially the same relations of participation or proximity, and transfer or sequence.

It is not a seXual description, in of - itself.

The IDEA of = A Physical Virgin, MALE or Gay Female - being a virgin because of the fact that - they were UNDEFILED because that they were Virgins.

This is what Jehovah Witness believers are trying to reason against, because they refuse to translate the Bible from the Greek and Hebrew. And Leave their Anti / Non Jehovah Witness opponents arguing from this viewpoint of mistranslation on both sides.

Among or with The Women gives a clear sexuality to the verse because it is showing the distinction of a seX.

Weather there is a Jehovah Witness idea of a Spiritual eXtrapolation
or some other type of Spiritual probing involved. the 144,000 are never mentioned here as the symbolic BRIDE or WIFE of God. Although they are His Bride But the scripture is not suggesting this symbolism. It is giving a seX to the Singers and telling they are Not defiled because they are LITERAL Virgins.

As where the Spiritual Bride of The Father and His Son are both Male and Female and one single Male and Female Bride. They are not Separate sexes Spiritually.

The Bride of God and Christ does not have a MALE and FEMALE sexuality Distinction between MALE and FEMALE - The BRIDE of God is not a seXual Male or seXual Female nature. In description or Role.

It is only Spiritual. With no distinction between Male and Female.

However Rev 14:4 gives a totally seXual Nature to the 144,000 It tells you that they were Females un defiled Among other WOMEN and Undefiled BECAUSE of the FACT - that they were Literal Virgins.

it is Completely seXual in physical nature, in every single last way possible.

The Virgins are a Female seX and Un Defiled, Because of the very FACT That they are Virgins. This is not a Spiritual Symbology - Where the Spiritual Bride of Christ is not Male or Female.

Unless He is a Transgendered. Or has a seX Change. Or is a homoseXual -

Yes my friends - You all make my point perfectly. While YET You contradict one another and Contradict The Bible.

The Greek word for a MALE is Greek 730 - ἄῤῥην, αρσην / arrhēn / ar'-hrane / ------------

Meaning a male, A man.

Any time the Translators wanted to write about MALES - They would directly use - this Greek Word. The 144,000 are not Males.

They are Virgins who were Redeemed / Saved / Purchased - By the LAMB. Purchased - Redeemed / Saved, FROM or out of Mankind. By the LAMB /

Mankind Greek 444 ἄνθρωπος anthrōpos / anth'-ro-pos -

From Anthrōpods = Meaning - A human being: - Mankind. From HUMANS

The basic message in the Manuscript Text. Does not take on a SPIRITUAL action, because the Author is SEPARATING The literal physical Virginity from the Spiritual here and letting the reader know that the Virgins were Unspotted, Undefiled BECAUSE of the fact that they were virgins. Alongside other woman who were Not Virgins and other Women who also were Defiled, Were Spotted and other Women who Were Unclean.

These 144,000 were different From Among the other women around them. The Bible is Clear.

it is a Group of Virgins among other women -- Along Side or With, Among other Women. The fact that they were Virgins - Shows that it is a Literal seXual nature. As Hebrew women, They are a part of the Bride of God -

But God choose these specific 144,000 women to be Singers and to Follow Him wherever He Goes. Singing before the Throne all at the Same Time.

Because the Lamb sits on the Throne of God and is able to Sit on the Throne While Continuing to be The Lord Jesus Christ - All in one, All at the eXact Same Time.

.................._______________________________________________

You notice the difference in Your Translation of 1Co. 15: 27 - 28

The Original Places Jesus Christ as the Deity of The Father.

1Co 15:27 And submitting everything under His ( Jesus ) feet and when it is said that everything submits it manifests the Exemption of submitting everything Himself.

1Co 15:28 So when everything submits to Him then the Son AND Himself submit, submitting everything to Him, ( Himself ) that God ( The Deity / Theos ) will be everything in everything.

Jesus Himself - Submits EVERYTHING To Himself. Because He is God.

The three are Literally 1. not Symbolically but Literally.

They are NOT 3. But 1.

...................................................

You are going off of a Man made translation - That was TRANSLATED by people who actually believe in the importance of - Literal Male Virgins.

Your Theory and Ideology is wrapped up in the Homosexual Culture that somehow believes that a MALE is supposed to be Literal Physical Virgin.

Your Theory and Ideology is wrapped up in the Culture that believes that there is some Glory and Special Holiness and Godly Ordination - in a MALE being a Virgin.

But in the Bible - there is no Such an IDEA or CONCEPT of a Male Virgin. Nor the Requirement or Concern - that a Male be a literal Virgin.

A male is never required to EVER, EVER even Consider His Virginity or Worry or Concern Himself with being a Virgin before He is Married.

He Can Mary 10,000 Times to Many, Many Virgins and Widows and Never will be required to be a Virgin. This is Basic Bible Stuff.

The Idea does not eXist in the Bible. *( yes - There is the concept of a Spiritual Virgin. ____________ BUT there is no Distinction between the Male and Female and There is no sexuality in the Bride of Christ.

The Only requirements for a Male - Is that He Not Forsake His Wives, And Not Have seX with a another Currently Married Woman. Or a Whore.

That's it -

That's it Nothing more. There is no Glory, Special Status or Honor or Requirement - in a Man being A VIRGIN. it is all in Your homoseXual driven Un Biblical Imagination.

there are no Male Virgins in the bible AND nothing Honorable and special and holy about a Man being a virgin. HE is never honoring or Showing anything to anyone - By being a virgin. unless He is a homoseXual.

it has no Value in the bible = And there are no physical Male Virgins/ unless He is Gay

BUT The 144,000 Virgins are eXactly what the Bible says they are.

They - were not defiled among, Long side the OTHER DEFILED Women

They are literal FACTUAL FEMALE virgins. There is no other Physical type of Virgins in the Bible.

And nothing special about a Man being a Virgin. In The Bible - A man can have 1000 wives at one time. A Woman MUST be a virgin before She Marries a man And may only have 1. LIVING husband at a time.

A Man never is supposed to be a Virgin - He Can’t be a Physical Virgin and He is never supposed to have only 1 Wife.

Rev 14:4 SAYS - These are they which were not defiled among women; BECAUSE they are virgins.

They - were not defiled among The Woman of the world and Taken / Redeemed from among the Arthropods / Humans of the earth.

...............................----------------------------.........................

I DO NOT SUGGEST that Jehovah Witnesses believe that The Husband God The Father and The Other Husband Jesus get together and have a physical seXual experience with their transgendered bride.

But Jehovah Witnesses end up with 2 Spiritual Husbands. Jesus is the Husband - While God the Father is the Husband as well.

Jesus is the Rock - Alpha and Omega - Beginning and The End - While God the Father is all the same as well.

Jehovah Witness Theology Leads to - The Bride with 2 Husbands at one time and gives a homoseXual nature to the Bride of God.

The Bride of Christ / God - Jew nor Gentile - Has no sexuality distinctions

and their seXual Conduct toward, with, among, Compared against or with the other Women, removes the Metaphoric, symbolic Symbolism and the 144,000 of Rev 14 is physical sexuality description and has sexuality on both sides.

I Hope and pray that You see that - it is impossible to be translated as Symbolic. They are Female seX and UN DEFILED , PURE and CLEAN BECAUSE of the Fact that They are Literal Virgins.

Rev 14 is literal events in heaven and symbolism has no purpose or connection/..

Rev 7:3 the Angel was Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 25: Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:06 am
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Re: 144,000

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[Replying to post 24 by Falling Light 101]


Well you are entitled to your view point. I hope I have answered any questions you have about ours.


Regards,

JW


Jehovah's Witnesses also have a website where you can check our beliefs.

LINK Offiicial Jehovah's Witness website
https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/


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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 26: Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:56 pm
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144,000

Like this post (1): JehovahsWitness
.
Thank you and the same to You.

The spirituality of the 144,000 and their spiritual virginity and Spiritually abstaining from being Spiritually deviled, spoiled and corrupted by women has long caused great wonder for me.

I hope that in time I can come to learn the deeper concepts of the Jehovah Witness Faith in this matter.

Jehovah Witness People are some of the best people that I have ever met.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 27: Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:09 am
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I believe that I do understand the Jehovah Witness position / concept about The 144,000

Thank You for taking the time to share this.

But Honestly, and please help me with this final stumble .

please help me to understand and - I simply find - - that I can not understand or grasp - how it is that the 14,000 were only undefiled metaphorically or figuratively by women only.

What is it or why is it important or special that these 144,000 only be metaphorically or figuratively honored or special and chosen - - for not being figuratively defiled, perverted or stained or soiled ONLY by the figurative female sex ? -

Why or how is it of NO IMPORTANCE - OR CONCERN - that the 144,000 - would not be defiled spiritually by " OTHER MALES " ? -

The male sex does not defile someone figuratively ?

What is dirty, unclean and icky about the female seX that the 144,000 are bestowed such great honor for remaining figuratively un- defiled by the female sex.

I realize that there are very some evil evil men and women in the world and of course Gods servants do not want to become associated with evil.

But what is it so bad and figuratively evil and defiling - about the female sex in the meaning of the scripture - to give such special honor to these 144,000 who have not been defiled with the female sex - while - it is not possible or important or of any concern or even mentioned as important - that they abstain from being defiled by the male sex ?

Only if we are figuratively led astray by a figurative woman - we are facing a dishonor or fail to please God ?

Why was it no value that the 144,000 remain un - defiled by the male sex ?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 28: Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:21 am
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[Replying to post 27 by Falling Light 101]

Because biblically a woman is in submission to her husband in a united permanent bond. Those who will join Jesus as his co-rulers in heaven are spoken of metapnorically as his bride (female) to show they form a united group but remain in submissive to Christ as the king of the government.


Hope that helps,

JW

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 29: Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:18 pm
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Dear Jehovah Witness Believer.

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Hello again.

I really tried to hear your answer and use it to help solve my question. But it only leads me to more unanswered questions that I have never received other answers from, among / with any blessed and honorable Jehovah Witness believer.

Please allow me to kindly explain my point and I thank You for taking your valuable time to explain the deeper ideas of the Jehovah Witness faith. You are very kind - and I will do my very best to be the same and also explain my question.

My only question was - = what variable or difference does it make - - whether or not a person has been defiled, tainted, dirtied, sullied, stained and ruined - by one sex or the other = Male or Female.

Your answer to remind me that the wife is to honor the husband does not explain anything about the statement in the Bible-- that says that the 144,000 were UNDEFILED with or among or along side of the female sex Among WOMAN. The female sex.

However that we choose to translate or MISTRANSLATE the passage - this answer is not about Rev 14: - Rev 14: says nothing about marriage, the bride - nor anyone being married to Christ. Your answer has nothing to do with the content of the entire chapter or these group of women - or - if You choose men.

I do, however, understand what you are saying - as found here - - https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/144000.php

Jehovah Witnesses believe that - the 144,000 are all “ THE REIGNING GROUP MALE SEX - AS KINGS “ - - but there absolutely is no verse anywhere found for this claim in Rev 14. - They are not even reigning or in authority of anything - they follow The Lamb as servants wherever The Lamb goes or moves - THEY ARE LITERALLY nothing more than _ a mobile musical unit who play instruments and sing songs to the Lamb.. - - This has nothing to do with the Jehovah Witness ideology or theological doctrine. As claimed.

* Rev 14: does not even have the word Kings or MALES - in the entire Chapter -yet, the JWs lift this idea of “ REIGNING MALE SEX - KINGS “ from Rev_1:6 and from Rev_5:10 and they insert it / drag it over ( STEALING IT ) and relocating it - into the Rev 14: storyline.
And Rev_5:10 and Rev_5:10 has absolutely nothing to do with the 144,000 female virgins of Rev 14:

Which also seems to really completely destroy the Jehovah Witness doctrine.
But Rev_1:6 and Rev_5:10 is referring to The Female sex also as being “ REIGNING - KINGS “ because there is no MALE and FEMALE SEX in the entire Bride Of Christ.

there is no MALE and FEMALE SEX in the entire Bride Of Christ. - yes the 144,000 are a female sex but they are not called the bride of Christ or being mentioned or grouped into any other group but their own group – to denote that they were females / VIRGINS - here on earth - but in Heaven, there is absolutely no male and female sex. Their lives on earth as female virgins is all that can be said about them - or the BIBLE WOULD COMPLETELY CONTRADICT ITSELF. - AND THE BIBLE WOULD BE A LIE. ?

This is clear in * Gal 3: :28 There is neither male and female : for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

And - Mat 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
And - Mar 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels who are in heaven.
The males and female sex will not be “ MALE AND FEMALE SEX “ in the resurrection -

they will only be as the angels. And in the Bible - Angels do not have sex in heaven - And Jesus compared Angels in heaven “ NEITHER ” male or female

Which also seems to completely destroy the Jehovah Witness doctrine.
But when Saint Paul was addressing all believers - He says here in 2Co 11: 2
: 2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you - ( The Church ) - to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

St. Paul did not address or mention a certain selected group and cast a cap off or a rip – off - or a curtail to limit or downsize and minify the number of the total number of the bride Christ as spiritual virgins - limited to only 144,000 people. - - - St. Paul was declaring that all ( all ) the Body Of Christ - The Church was ( The Church ) - was engaged to Christ - to be a chaste VIRGIN to Christ. - - I see that The Jehovah Witness doctrine has seemed to be been completely smashed and fallen into pieces of un numbered untruthfulness. Too many contradictions and manmade fantasies to count.

Your statement of faith - has nothing to do with The Biblical teaching - that declares even from the Old Testament that God already has three wives / bride groups that are - 1. Judah 2. Israel and 3. Gentiles - He has a bride groups called out from - among - Judah - Israel - and a VIRGIN bride from - The Gentiles.

Yet - The JWs denominational perspective is to take the entirety - { the whole } of the concept of the 144,000 virgins, as only being a totality of all a figurative, symbolic meaning.
When St Paul has already declared that the Church that He is currently developing and addressing the readers of His scriptures who are all to be engaged and presented to Christ - to be a chaste VIRGIN to Christ.
Which again the JWs completely seems to contradict the teaching of the concept of the bride of Christ that exists throughout The entirety of The Bible.

And the truth exists that - Rev 14 - adds a sexuality geniality and concept of - ( a sexual urge / a sex drive ) - to the idea of making a literal declaration that the 144,000 were literal virgins and were chosen - for the fact that they had not been defiled among ( Μετά - meta among or with ) along - side ) the other females -
They were all virgins LITERALLY from out among with / along side / with the entire female sex group /a collection out of from among / with - all the female sex.
Which the Jehovah Witness Faith seems to completely deny. I understand that ......

The verse says = 4. These are they which were not defiled among women; for they are virgins.

I know the Jehovah Witness translation changes the meaning of many words

But The Bible gives a Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among ANTHROPODS
MAN - ( NOT MALE SEX - NOT MEN ) , being the first fruits unto God and to the Lamb. - THEY ARE LITERALLY nothing more than _ a mobile musical unit of women servants who play instruments and sing songs to the Lamb.. they are not reigning as Kings or in any authority in the storyline.

In conclusion, the Greek word “ META “ means = with, among , that which is joined or joining or accompanying with G3326
Μετά - meta - met-ah' = among / with

A primary preposition (often used adverbially); properly denoting accompaniment; “amid” (local or causal); modified variously according to the case (genitive case association, or accusative case succession) with which it is joined; occupying an intermediate position between
among, + together, , with (+ -out). Often used in a union composition, in substantially the same relations of participation or proximity, and transfer or sequence.

This word Μετά - meta - - saying that the VIRGINS had not been defiled ( Μετά - meta among or with ) - women, - The word ( Μετά - meta among or with ) is not denoting a sexual concept in any way to indicate that anyone is having sex- or participating in any activity whatsoever

It simply means that they are together and in an assembly, grouping or crowd or joining one another in accompaniment OF BEING OF THE SAME GROUP OF THE SAME SUBSTANCE IN THE VERSE CONTENT

Mar 15:31 The chief priests mocking said ( Μετά - meta among or with ) themselves
Luk 1:28 Lord is with thee: ( MARY ) blessed art thou ( Μετά - meta among or with ) women.
Luk 22:37 And he was reckoned ( Μετά - meta among or with ) the transgressors.
Luk 24:5 Why seek ye the living ( Μετά - meta among or with ) the dead?
Joh 11:54 Jesus therefore walked no more openly ( Μετά - meta among or with ) the Jews.
Joh 11:56 Then sought Jesus ( Μετά - meta among or with ) themselves,
Joh 16:19 Do ye enquire ( Μετά - meta among or with ) yourselves.
Act 20:29 grievous wolves enter in ( Μετά - meta among or with ) you,
1Co 6:7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault ( Μετά - meta among or with ) you,
Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled ( Μετά - meta among or with ) women; for they are virgins.
Mat 9:15 while the bridegroom is ( Μετά - meta among or with ) them.
Mat 2:11 The young child ( Μετά - meta among or with ) Mary
Mat 4:21 in a ship ( Μετά - meta among or with ) Zebedee their father.
Mat 5:25 Agree with adversary quickly, whiles thou art ... ( Μετά - meta among or with ) him.
Mat 9:11 Why eateth your Master ( Μετά - meta among or with ) publicans.
1Th 3:13 Christ ( Μετά - meta among or with ) all his saints.
Rev 21:15 And he that talked ( Μετά - meta among or with ) me
Rev 21:3 Tabernacle is ( with / along with, ) men. he dwells ( Μετά - meta among or with ) them, God ( with / along with, ) them.
Mat 1:23 Emmanuel = God ( Μετά - meta among or with ) us.
Rev 20:6 We reign ( Μετά - meta among or with ) him a thousand years.
2Th 1:7 Jesus ( Μετά - meta among or with ) his mighty angels.
1Co 16:24 My love be ( Μετά - meta among or with ) you all.
2Co 13:14 The Holy Ghost, be ( Μετά - meta among or with ) you all.
Eph 6:7 Servants ( Μετά - meta among or with ) good will doing service.

This is how the verse is used in the manuscripts - Why not follow the consistency of the manuscripts and translate the verse the same as it was written in the Original manuscripts ? ? ? ?
Instead of inventing, adding and making changes to it .

This is just a handfull of the hundeds of other verses that explain what this word means - i could post pages of verses using the word Μετά - meta and the word always means the same exact thing.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 30: Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:19 pm
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sorry for being rude.

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Also, I must / and I have to add this one final fact that i forgot and I should have already mentioned it, but I did not have my notes together. Please accept my apology. I am truly sorry for taking up so much space in the great room - i will stop for a while and allow many other great posters to comment. it is very rude and inconsiderate and wrong to do this. I am sorry.

Please allow me to show one more final point that also totally contradicts the JWs claim that their Gentile group are the 144,000 and also the “ FIRST FRUITS “ as JWs claim that their Gentile based organization are numbered as “ FIRST FRUITS “ and also the 144,000.

The Bible has already given this “ TITLE “ of “ FIRST FRUITS “ to the Hebrew people from the beginning of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob / Israel

We see that the “ TITLE “ of “ THE - FIRST FRUITS “ was only given to the Jews who were the first and existed long before the Gentiles were grafted / adopted into house of Israel.

From the beginning, it was Israel who were the “ FIRST FRUITS “ as it clearly says here in Jer 2:3 Israel was holiness unto the LORD, and the first fruits of his increase: all that devour him shall offend; evil shall come upon them....

“ If “ Israel is called The “ FIRST FRUITS “ then the gentiles could never could also be given this title. Gentiles believers in Christ did not come first – in the order of a people accepting God and called to be a part of God plan in The process and totality of having millions and millions of gentiles attributed to serving God. “ If “ Israel is called the “ FIRST FRUITS “ why would the JWs or any later gentile based organization be called the “ FIRST FRUITS “ - they were not before Israel . The gentiles could never be and - never - are called the “ TITLE “ of “ FIRST FRUITS “ - But is always is the Jews / Israel who is the “ TITLE “ of “ FIRST FRUITS “

Rom 16:5 Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my wellbeloved Epaenetus, who is the first fruits of Achaia unto Christ.
1Co 16:15 I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the first fruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,)
Jas 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of first fruits of his creatures.

Rev_14:4 These are they which were not defiled among women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the first fruits unto God and to the Lamb.

The JWs sequence is total contradictory. - when the Bible is already calling previous “ Israel “ - the “ FIRST FRUITS “ and The Apostles and Disciples were not preaching directly to Gentiles when they began their ministry and then later authored the details - but they were preaching first to the house of Israel and wrote that Gentiles could come secondly and be grafted into the branch.

How can the fruits that are later grafted into a family tree ( thousands of years later ) be called the first fruits of a family tree ? never are gentiles titled as “ FIRST FRUITS “ because the Gospel of salvation is first to the Jew and the gentiles are GRAFTED SPLICED - added and merged - adopted + - - INTO A TREE OF FRUITS - THAT HAD BORE THE FIRST FRUITS AND ALREADY EXISTED FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS. JWs are not among the first fruits and therefore not of The 144,000. ).

Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

Rom :17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom :18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom :19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom :20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom :21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

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