Can an athiest believe in biblical values?

[tatty]

I do not believe in the existence of a god.
I have read the bible several times, and the gospel many more, and I do not believe there is a metaphysical being that watches over me and created the world.

But, and there is a but, I do believe in the general principles that the bible teaches.

For example, the Ten Commandments. (referring specifically to commandments 5-10)

I think in terms of guidelines to live by, they are extremely useful.


FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'

SIX: 'You shall not murder.'

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'


Its true. You should live by these rules, but I think the threat of eternal damnation if one doesn't just fuels the fire for the argument of the church as a control mechanism.

Most religious texts promote similar living standards, and basic human morality does to.

So what does that make me? An atheist who values biblical morals?

[puddleglum]

"When Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts." (Romans 2:14,15 ESV).

God has created us with an innate knowledge of right and wrong. Because the human race has fallen as a result of sin this knowledge is imperfect and we often don't act on it but the fact that all religions and philosophies teach the same thing is evidence that it exists.

[Goat]

"When Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts." (Romans 2:14,15 ESV).

God has created us with an innate knowledge of right and wrong. Because the human race has fallen as a result of sin this knowledge is imperfect and we often don't act on it but the fact that all religions and philosophies teach the same thing is evidence that it exists.

Either that, or because those societies whose individuals do not have a 'moral' code become disorganised and die out, the desire for a heirarchy of rules to live by is instinctual, and was brought about by evolution...

YMMV.

[Mascaput]

[quote="tatty"]I do not believe in the existence of a god.
I have read the bible several times, and the gospel many more, and I do not believe there is a metaphysical being that watches over me and created the world.

But, and there is a but, I do believe in the general principles that the bible teaches.

For example, the Ten Commandments. (referring specifically to commandments 5-10)

quote]

It's a fair enough question. If values are real, and practical, and useful, then they prove themselves as realistic, and are therefore not based on beliefs, which are based on opinion only. We have to remember that the texts we refer to as the bible have been edited and reinterpreted over and over again, so what we now end up with is a mix of reality with a large dose of confusing and contradictory rules and ideas.
For example, the commandment about not committing murder is logical, but how then can the sending of believers in that same rule into battle to kill other believers of the same or very similar religious beliefs, blessed by ministers of religion, be sane?

[lmt531]

The Bible certainly teaches some principles that are acceptable to anyone.

This is simply knowing and acknowledging what is right and wrong. Basic ethics and morals can be practiced without being in any religion.

Can you agree that atheists have morals? We didn't adopt them from the Bible. Right and wrong has been around a lot longer than the Bible. You can be a good person who practices standard ethics without being a Christian.

[Mascaput]

The Bible certainly teaches some principles that are acceptable to anyone.

This is simply knowing and acknowledging what is right and wrong. Basic ethics and morals can be practiced without being in any religion.

Can you agree that atheists have morals? We didn't adopt them from the Bible. Right and wrong has been around a lot longer than the Bible. You can be a good person who practices standard ethics without being a Christian.

Quite right. The basic understanding of what is right and wrong comes from evolutionary learning over millions of years that derived from reasoning choices that enhanced certain individuals' opportunity to adapt and survive where others failed. That faculty is expressed as the faculty of reasoned thinking, which evaluates future positions from current understanding and past experience, so as to make progress possible.
This innate faculty is therefore genetic, as it appears and presents itself time and time again throughout the generations. Then again so does stupidity, and that is where the battle is being constantly fought: between the lower of bestial mind and the higher and reasoning, humane mind, both of which exists in all humans to varying degree. Belief excuses and promotes the unreasoning wants of the lower mind, while reason permits the higher mind to expand and improve.

The problem with the "bible" is that the original texts are no longer made available to us, as this would prove fatal to Christianity as a global enterprise, but we only need to consider the parts that make reasoned sense, and dump the nonsense.
The original Ten Commandments, originally known as The Twelve Laws, were altered by the various religions groups to suit their political agendas, and many of them make no sense, such as "Thou shalt not kill", which is so open to interpretation that it could literally mean that you can't eat the meat of dead animals, or protect yourself when being attacked in case you kill someone else.

The original Law of The Way philosophy, from which the altered "Commandments" were drived, was: "No man shall kill without good reason; not man, beast nor green thing, that which flies or lives in water, even that which is harmful. All things have their purpose."

This, to me at least, makes complete sense, and requires no interpretation, but that wouldn't suit believers, so it was altered to be what they wanted to be so as to do otherwise,

Good reason is the balancing element that sets things straight.

Mascaput

[BwhoUR]

When I read a good moral statement in the bible, I usually follow it up with "duh". When I read the rest of the bible, I usually follow it up with "what!?"

[Mascaput]

When I read a good moral statement in the bible, I usually follow it up with "duh". When I read the rest of the bible, I usually follow it up with "what!?"

I'm not surprised . It has been edited and messed around so much that a lot of whatever might have originally made sense has been lost. You have to remember that translators in Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, Latin and Olde English have produced versions that often lose the context of whatever the original version was. There are dozens of versions floating around, with all the verious sects claiming their version as being the "real" bible. The original texts and teachings were collectively called the Book of Man, but godmongers took it over and killed off the learned ones, and used the teachings in altered form to make up beliefs about it. The rest is history, and there is no doubt that it has shaped history, but not in a good way.

mascaput

[Humble Bystander]

I do not believe in the existence of a god.
I have read the bible several times, and the gospel many more, and I do not believe there is a metaphysical being that watches over me and created the world.

But, and there is a but, I do believe in the general principles that the bible teaches.

For example, the Ten Commandments. (referring specifically to commandments 5-10)

I think in terms of guidelines to live by, they are extremely useful.


FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'

SIX: 'You shall not murder.'

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'


Its true. You should live by these rules, but I think the threat of eternal damnation if one doesn't just fuels the fire for the argument of the church as a control mechanism.

Most religious texts promote similar living standards, and basic human morality does to.

So what does that make me? An atheist who values biblical morals?

I completely understand and agree with your point of view. What you're talking about is the ethical teachings of bible and that itself is very admirable. Many other religions teach morals and ethics which should be taught to others; however, the issue is the baggage that comes with all the religions. I agree that "Eternal damnation" or "disaster" via breaking these rules is similar to terrorism - using fear to control others. There is nothing wrong with following the values you listed, as they are almost universal and found even in law and other cultures. It is religion itself that makes the biblical values so undesirable.