Pakistan court "an eye for an eye" punishment

[VermilionUK]

Just read this article on the BBC website. The crime is horrific:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8425820.stm

A Pakistani court has ordered that two men have their ears and noses cut off, as punishment for doing the same to a woman who refused to marry one of them.....

Government prosecutor Ehtisham Qadir said the punishment had been awarded in accordance with the Islamic principle of "an eye for an eye".

Sher Mohammad and Amanat abducted Fazeelat Bibi as she returned home from work at a brick kiln in the Raiwind area of Lahore, the court heard.

"They put a noose around her neck, and then cut off her ears and nose," Mr Qadir told the BBC.

Questions for debate/discussion:

Is the punishment justified and moral?

Is the phrase "the punishment had been awarded in accordance with the Islamic principle of "an eye for an eye", an accurate portrayal of Islamic principles and morals?

*Note*
This thread should not be used to attack Islamic morals. The purpose of this thread is only to provide discussion of the "an eye for an eye" punishment, and discuss its relationship with Islamic principles.

[Bio-logical]

I feel that not only is this a just punishment, but the justice system would be far more effective if this theory was always applied.

Violent crime is the only crime I abhor, and I agree with Joey that the death penalty is justified in the cases of murder, rape and paedophilia. I feel that imprisonment and rehabilitation do not work in the cases of rape and paedophiia, and murder is appropriately matched by murder. The problem with this system, however, is a matter of degree. Is an 18 year old who has sex with a 17 year old a rapist? I would say no. Is it "murder" if I accidentally kill somebody in a bar fight? It is a hard line to draw.

I also feel that non-violent crimes should have a punishment that fits them. Sell drugs? pay a fine. Steal something, lose an amount equal to the value of what was stolen back to the person, plus restitution of their stolen goods.

If you have it in you to disfigure a live person for the simple reason that she refused o marry you, you deserve to be disfigured, but then the public deserves for you to be killed or imprisoned forever, to keep them safe. If somebody raped, murdered or disfigured my wife or sister, I would hurt them 3 fold before ending their life, and then I would openly accept any consequences I would get from the law. That would be what they deserve and until the law allows it, I would handle it alone.

[TrueReligion]

the problem with that is that that kind of...spiteful? punishment for a crime, given to that type of person, will not end the problem. These two guys are going to be spiteful and angry for the rest of their lives - and might try to take it out on the woman.

For something so serious as deliberate disfigurement of another human being in such a disgusting manner, the only sensible punishments I can see are life in prison or execution. These men should not be allowed into a position where they could harm others again.

I'd add that I wouldn't object to these men having their ears and noses cut off, without pain medicine - then sent to prison for life or execution.

It's been my experience such bullies will only be swayed by their own tactics.

Personally I'd object to cutting off their ears and noses and then executing them. cutting off their ears and noses first doesn't really do anything except make us feel righteous and make them suffer needlessly. If you are going to execute them, cutting off their ears and noses becomes petty.

I see your point. This punishment seems to be a symbol of revenge more than anything, and I believe revenge and the law system should never mix.

Although, had I been the one to give out the punishment, I think it would be difficult to find a reason as to why they should not suffer as much as the woman did.

Anyway, I'd welcome any Muslims to this thread who can shed some light on whether the "eye for an eye" punishment is an accurate representation of Islamic principles, as indicated in the article.

Thanks VUK for showing your concerns about this punishment. and inviting muslims to discuss about it as well.

1st this need to be clear,that this punishment is only in Islam or in other relgions as well. To confirm you VUK,this punishment is samein Bible, in Jews scripture, in Hinduism, means among all the world's major religions.

Other, some1 can;t say that this is cruelty or etc etc in today's 21st century . This would simply means that the civilization earlier to us, or till 20th century people were cruel and without morals? Ofcourse this can;t be true as well.

There are other cases also in the world, where some men throw acid on girl's face, just because she refuse to marry them or go out with them.

Now all the pain that girl got, and if she can;t afford plastic surgery etc etc, can you justify that the guy will get few months or yrs in jail, will match the pain and suffering of that girl?

[Goat]

the problem with that is that that kind of...spiteful? punishment for a crime, given to that type of person, will not end the problem. These two guys are going to be spiteful and angry for the rest of their lives - and might try to take it out on the woman.

For something so serious as deliberate disfigurement of another human being in such a disgusting manner, the only sensible punishments I can see are life in prison or execution. These men should not be allowed into a position where they could harm others again.

I'd add that I wouldn't object to these men having their ears and noses cut off, without pain medicine - then sent to prison for life or execution.

It's been my experience such bullies will only be swayed by their own tactics.

Personally I'd object to cutting off their ears and noses and then executing them. cutting off their ears and noses first doesn't really do anything except make us feel righteous and make them suffer needlessly. If you are going to execute them, cutting off their ears and noses becomes petty.

I see your point. This punishment seems to be a symbol of revenge more than anything, and I believe revenge and the law system should never mix.

Although, had I been the one to give out the punishment, I think it would be difficult to find a reason as to why they should not suffer as much as the woman did.

Anyway, I'd welcome any Muslims to this thread who can shed some light on whether the "eye for an eye" punishment is an accurate representation of Islamic principles, as indicated in the article.

Thanks VUK for showing your concerns about this punishment. and inviting muslims to discuss about it as well.

1st this need to be clear,that this punishment is only in Islam or in other relgions as well. To confirm you VUK,this punishment is samein Bible, in Jews scripture, in Hinduism, means among all the world's major religions.

I do not know about Hinduism, but in Judaism, the phrase is taken to mean 'no more than an eye for an eye, no more than a tooth for a tooth' .. an injunction against excessive punishment. In the Jewish legal system, there is a principle where a monetary value or another value can be placed upon such things. It is
not literal at all. This has been the principle for well over 2000 years.

Other, some1 can;t say that this is cruelty or etc etc in today's 21st century . This would simply means that the civilization earlier to us, or till 20th century people were cruel and without morals? Ofcourse this can;t be true as well.

Yes, it can mean that the people earlier were cruel. Morality is merely the result of dealing with the consequences of interactions between people, so they just had a different morality. Being moral doesn't mean you aren't cruel.

There are other cases also in the world, where some men throw acid on girl's face, just because she refuse to marry them or go out with them.

Now all the pain that girl got, and if she can;t afford plastic surgery etc etc, can you justify that the guy will get few months or yrs in jail, will match the pain and suffering of that girl?

In the bible, 'Vengeance is Mine, saith the lord'. That means that vengeance should be left up to the Lord, and not carried out by man. Violence begets violence. While nothing can justify the pain the victim went through, that does not justify that kind of 'justice'. That happens when the society does not value their people. It is sufficient for life imprisonment. When the principles of respecting other people are ingrained into everyone, including respect for men for women, then you will not see as horrendous a crime as disfiguring women because they would not marry someone. Yes, it will still happen, but it will happen much less as time goes on.

[TrueReligion]

the problem with that is that that kind of...spiteful? punishment for a crime, given to that type of person, will not end the problem. These two guys are going to be spiteful and angry for the rest of their lives - and might try to take it out on the woman.

For something so serious as deliberate disfigurement of another human being in such a disgusting manner, the only sensible punishments I can see are life in prison or execution. These men should not be allowed into a position where they could harm others again.

I'd add that I wouldn't object to these men having their ears and noses cut off, without pain medicine - then sent to prison for life or execution.

It's been my experience such bullies will only be swayed by their own tactics.

Personally I'd object to cutting off their ears and noses and then executing them. cutting off their ears and noses first doesn't really do anything except make us feel righteous and make them suffer needlessly. If you are going to execute them, cutting off their ears and noses becomes petty.

I see your point. This punishment seems to be a symbol of revenge more than anything, and I believe revenge and the law system should never mix.

Although, had I been the one to give out the punishment, I think it would be difficult to find a reason as to why they should not suffer as much as the woman did.

Anyway, I'd welcome any Muslims to this thread who can shed some light on whether the "eye for an eye" punishment is an accurate representation of Islamic principles, as indicated in the article.

Thanks VUK for showing your concerns about this punishment. and inviting muslims to discuss about it as well.

1st this need to be clear,that this punishment is only in Islam or in other relgions as well. To confirm you VUK,this punishment is samein Bible, in Jews scripture, in Hinduism, means among all the world's major religions.

I do not know about Hinduism, but in Judaism, the phrase is taken to mean 'no more than an eye for an eye, no more than a tooth for a tooth' .. an injunction against excessive punishment. In the Jewish legal system, there is a principle where a monetary value or another value can be placed upon such things. It is
not literal at all. This has been the principle for well over 2000 years.

The phrase "an eye for an eye", Hebrew: , ayin tahat ayin, is a quotation from several passages of the Bible (Leviticus 24:19"21, Exodus 21:22"25, and Deuteronomy 19:21) in which a person who has injured the eye of another is instructed to give his or her own eye in compensation. At the root of this principle is that one of the purposes of the law is to provide equitable retribution for an offended party. It defined and restricted the extent of retribution in the laws of the Old Testament.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_for_an_eye

Other, some1 can;t say that this is cruelty or etc etc in today's 21st century . This would simply means that the civilization earlier to us, or till 20th century people were cruel and without morals? Ofcourse this can;t be true as well.

Yes, it can mean that the people earlier were cruel. Morality is merely the result of dealing with the consequences of interactions between people, so they just had a different morality. Being moral doesn't mean you aren't cruel.

but people are still cruel now a days, there is not much differene between old people and today's civilization, in every religion, culture there are cruel and immoral people existing.

There are other cases also in the world, where some men throw acid on girl's face, just because she refuse to marry them or go out with them.

Now all the pain that girl got, and if she can;t afford plastic surgery etc etc, can you justify that the guy will get few months or yrs in jail, will match the pain and suffering of that girl?

In the bible, 'Vengeance is Mine, saith the lord'. That means that vengeance should be left up to the Lord, and not carried out by man. Violence begets violence. While nothing can justify the pain the victim went through, that does not justify that kind of 'justice'. That happens when the society does not value their people. It is sufficient for life imprisonment. When the principles of respecting other people are ingrained into everyone, including respect for men for women, then you will not see as horrendous a crime as disfiguring women because they would not marry someone. Yes, it will still happen, but it will happen much less as time goes on.

Sorry to say, but Your last line I dont agree, beacuse crimes have grown more as time progresses. and the kind of crimes we have today, were not in past few civilzations.
The main reason is that people changed the justice laws, and made the punishment less. Example, if some1 rape some girl or murder a child, many countries that person will only gets few years in JAIL,. and after coming back, he will be more stronger than before to commit same crime again, because the fear has gone inside him.

Already the western judiciary is admiting that the violance is increasing due to less capital punishment.
On the other hand, if you take countries where punishment is severe, the crime rate also is very less, due to the major factor that people are afraid of comiting crime, knowing he consequence of paying the penalty.

Also, the punishments are given by God, that must have to be followed, but for sure humans should not go beyond the boundary, given by God. Example we can;t burn some1, as its not allowed etc etc

[Goat]

Sorry to say, but Your last line I dont agree, beacuse crimes have grown more as time progresses. and the kind of crimes we have today, were not in past few civilzations.

Or, perhaps, what was considered ok many years ago is now considered a crime, such as forcing sex on a wife when she isn't willing is now considered rape, when before it wasn't.

The main reason is that people changed the justice laws, and made the punishment less. Example, if some1 rape some girl or murder a child, many countries that person will only gets few years in JAIL,. and after coming back, he will be more stronger than before to commit same crime again, because the fear has gone inside him.

The crime trends in the United States over the last 20 years shows your claims are wrong.

Already the western judiciary is admiting that the violance is increasing due to less capital punishment.
On the other hand, if you take countries where punishment is severe, the crime rate also is very less, due to the major factor that people are afraid of comiting crime, knowing he consequence of paying the penalty.

Not according to the justice department figures on violent crime. The rate of violent crime has dropped drastically since 1993

Also, the punishments are given by God, that must have to be followed, but for sure humans should not go beyond the boundary, given by God. Example we can;t burn some1, as its not allowed etc etc

I would love you to demonstrate tangible and empirical evidence that 'punishments are given by God.'

So far, you made lots of claims that the data shows the exact opposite.

[TrueReligion]

Sorry to say, but Your last line I dont agree, beacuse crimes have grown more as time progresses. and the kind of crimes we have today, were not in past few civilzations.

Or, perhaps, what was considered ok many years ago is now considered a crime, such as forcing sex on a wife when she isn't willing is now considered rape, when before it wasn't.

Ofcourse no1 can force wife for sex, you know well its in all relgious laws,

The main reason is that people changed the justice laws, and made the punishment less. Example, if some1 rape some girl or murder a child, many countries that person will only gets few years in JAIL,. and after coming back, he will be more stronger than before to commit same crime again, because the fear has gone inside him.

The crime trends in the United States over the last 20 years shows your claims are wrong.

Care to see who is wrong?

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

Already the western judiciary is admiting that the violance is increasing due to less capital punishment.
On the other hand, if you take countries where punishment is severe, the crime rate also is very less, due to the major factor that people are afraid of comiting crime, knowing he consequence of paying the penalty.

Not according to the justice department figures on violent crime. The rate of violent crime has dropped drastically since 1993


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States

This link is saying otherwise,

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e ... e_Rate.jpg

But its only US, we are talking in general, and its nothing to argue about Goat, I know you can bring other sources to justify yourself, and same I can do, point here is, that due to les punishment crimes r'nt going down as what was thought.

Also, the punishments are given by God, that must have to be followed, but for sure humans should not go beyond the boundary, given by God. Example we can;t burn some1, as its not allowed etc etc

I would love you to demonstrate tangible and empirical evidence that 'punishments are given by God.'

So far, you made lots of claims that the data shows the exact opposite.

The eye for an eye, I showed already in Jews scripture, which you are denying, and easily you remove that statement from here, so still you are insisting that punishments were not described/given by God to mankind?

I showed the real data. So still you are insisting on it?

[TrueReligion]

Sorry to say, but Your last line I dont agree, beacuse crimes have grown more as time progresses. and the kind of crimes we have today, were not in past few civilzations.

Or, perhaps, what was considered ok many years ago is now considered a crime, such as forcing sex on a wife when she isn't willing is now considered rape, when before it wasn't.

No 1 is forcing wife for sex, wife and husband relation is personal, you can't calalit force.
Its like this, if your mother is working hard, and you ask her to make you tea or something, do you consider it forcing your mother for work?

The main reason is that people changed the justice laws, and made the punishment less. Example, if some1 rape some girl or murder a child, many countries that person will only gets few years in JAIL,. and after coming back, he will be more stronger than before to commit same crime again, because the fear has gone inside him.

The crime trends in the United States over the last 20 years shows your claims are wrong.

You mean this is wrong?

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

Already the western judiciary is admiting that the violance is increasing due to less capital punishment.
On the other hand, if you take countries where punishment is severe, the crime rate also is very less, due to the major factor that people are afraid of comiting crime, knowing he consequence of paying the penalty.

Not according to the justice department figures on violent crime. The rate of violent crime has dropped drastically since 1993


See Goat, you are giving only for US, we are talking in general, the point which I made is that the less punishment made by western countries, didnt help them alot, and tey dont see much decrease in crimes, we dont have to argue much in this, as every knows that the crime rate is not falling due to lack of punishment.

Also, the punishments are given by God, that must have to be followed, but for sure humans should not go beyond the boundary, given by God. Example we can;t burn some1, as its not allowed etc etc

I would love you to demonstrate tangible and empirical evidence that 'punishments are given by God.'

So far, you made lots of claims that the data shows the exact opposite.

Stil you persist that God didnt give punishments to mankind to implement? what Moses taught otherwise?

Arent these punishments in Judaism? can you deny them?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporal_p ... Punishment

The 4 Types of Capital Punishment
It should be noted that, before any capital sentence was carried out, the convicted person was given a drug to render them senseless. There were four types of capital punishment, known as mitath beth din (execution by the rabbinic court). These four types of capital punishment, in decreasing severity, were:

Sekila - stoning
This was performed by pushing a person off a height of at least 2 stories. If the person didn't die, then the executioners (the witnesses) brought a rock that was so large that it took both of them to lift it; this was placed on the convicted person to crush them.
Serefah - burning
This was done by melting lead, and pouring it down the throat of the convicted person.
Hereg - decapitation
This is also known as "being put to the sword."
Chenek - strangulation
A rope was wound around the convicted person's neck, and the executioners (the witnesses) pulled from either side to strangle the convicted person.
[edit] Capital Sins Separated by the 4 Types of Capital Punishment
The following is a list by Maimonides in his Mishneh Torah (Hilchoth Sanhedrin Chapter 15) of which crimes carry a capital punishment.

[edit] Punishment by Sekila (stoning)
Intercourse between a man and his mother.
Intercourse between a man and his father's wife (not necessarily his mother).
Intercourse between a man and his daughter in law.
Intercourse with another man's wife from the first stage of marriage.
Intercourse between two men.
Bestiality.
Cursing the name of God in God's name.
Idol Worship.
Giving one's progeny to Molech.
Necromantic Sorcery.
Pythonic Sorcery.
Attempting to convince another to worship idols.
Instigating a community to worship idols.
Witchcraft.
Violating the Sabbath.
Cursing one's own parent.
A stubborn and rebellious son.
[edit] Punishment by Serefah (burning)
The daughter of a priest who completed the second stage of marriage commits adultery.
Intercourse between a man and his daughter.
Intercourse between a man and his daughter's daughter.
Intercourse between a man and his son's daughter.
Intercourse between a man and his wife's daughter (not necessarily his own daughter).
Intercourse between a man and his wife's daughter's daughter.
Intercourse between a man and his wife's son's daughter.
Intercourse between a man and his mother in law.
Intercourse between a man and his mother in law's mother.
Intercourse between a man and his father in law's mother.
[edit] Punishment by Hereg (beheading)
Unlawful premeditated murder.
Being a member of a city that has gone astray.
[edit] Punishment by Chenek (strangulation)
Committing adultery with another man's wife, where it doesn't fall under the above criteria.
Wounding one's own parent.
Kidnapping another member of Israel.
Prophesying Falsely.
Prophesying in the name of other deities.
A sage who is guilty of insubordination in front of the grand court in the Chamber of the Hewn Stone.

[VermilionUK]

The crime trends in the United States over the last 20 years shows your claims are wrong.

You mean this is wrong?

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

It depends on what crimes you look at. From the statistic on that site, some crimes have decreased over the past 20 years, such as murder; in 1980 it was 23,040, but by 2008 it was 16,272. But some crimes have risen.

It's difficult to say "crime has risen", because it depends largely on what "crimes" you are referring to.

[Goat]

Sorry to say, but Your last line I dont agree, beacuse crimes have grown more as time progresses. and the kind of crimes we have today, were not in past few civilzations.

Or, perhaps, what was considered ok many years ago is now considered a crime, such as forcing sex on a wife when she isn't willing is now considered rape, when before it wasn't.

No 1 is forcing wife for sex, wife and husband relation is personal, you can't calalit force.
Its like this, if your mother is working hard, and you ask her to make you tea or something, do you consider it forcing your mother for work?

The main reason is that people changed the justice laws, and made the punishment less. Example, if some1 rape some girl or murder a child, many countries that person will only gets few years in JAIL,. and after coming back, he will be more stronger than before to commit same crime again, because the fear has gone inside him.

The crime trends in the United States over the last 20 years shows your claims are wrong.

You mean this is wrong?

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

Already the western judiciary is admiting that the violance is increasing due to less capital punishment.
On the other hand, if you take countries where punishment is severe, the crime rate also is very less, due to the major factor that people are afraid of comiting crime, knowing he consequence of paying the penalty.

Not according to the justice department figures on violent crime. The rate of violent crime has dropped drastically since 1993


See Goat, you are giving only for US, we are talking in general, the point which I made is that the less punishment made by western countries, didnt help them alot, and tey dont see much decrease in crimes, we dont have to argue much in this, as every knows that the crime rate is not falling due to lack of punishment.

Also, the punishments are given by God, that must have to be followed, but for sure humans should not go beyond the boundary, given by God. Example we can;t burn some1, as its not allowed etc etc

I would love you to demonstrate tangible and empirical evidence that 'punishments are given by God.'

So far, you made lots of claims that the data shows the exact opposite.

Stil you persist that God didnt give punishments to mankind to implement? what Moses taught otherwise?

Arent these punishments in Judaism? can you deny them?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporal_p ... Punishment

The 4 Types of Capital Punishment
It should be noted that, before any capital sentence was carried out, the convicted person was given a drug to render them senseless. There were four types of capital punishment, known as mitath beth din (execution by the rabbinic court). These four types of capital punishment, in decreasing severity, were:

Sekila - stoning
This was performed by pushing a person off a height of at least 2 stories. If the person didn't die, then the executioners (the witnesses) brought a rock that was so large that it took both of them to lift it; this was placed on the convicted person to crush them.
Serefah - burning
This was done by melting lead, and pouring it down the throat of the convicted person.
Hereg - decapitation
This is also known as "being put to the sword."
Chenek - strangulation
A rope was wound around the convicted person's neck, and the executioners (the witnesses) pulled from either side to strangle the convicted person.
[edit] Capital Sins Separated by the 4 Types of Capital Punishment
The following is a list by Maimonides in his Mishneh Torah (Hilchoth Sanhedrin Chapter 15) of which crimes carry a capital punishment.

[edit] Punishment by Sekila (stoning)
Intercourse between a man and his mother.
Intercourse between a man and his father's wife (not necessarily his mother).
Intercourse between a man and his daughter in law.
Intercourse with another man's wife from the first stage of marriage.
Intercourse between two men.
Bestiality.
Cursing the name of God in God's name.
Idol Worship.
Giving one's progeny to Molech.
Necromantic Sorcery.
Pythonic Sorcery.
Attempting to convince another to worship idols.
Instigating a community to worship idols.
Witchcraft.
Violating the Sabbath.
Cursing one's own parent.
A stubborn and rebellious son.
[edit] Punishment by Serefah (burning)
The daughter of a priest who completed the second stage of marriage commits adultery.
Intercourse between a man and his daughter.
Intercourse between a man and his daughter's daughter.
Intercourse between a man and his son's daughter.
Intercourse between a man and his wife's daughter (not necessarily his own daughter).
Intercourse between a man and his wife's daughter's daughter.
Intercourse between a man and his wife's son's daughter.
Intercourse between a man and his mother in law.
Intercourse between a man and his mother in law's mother.
Intercourse between a man and his father in law's mother.
[edit] Punishment by Hereg (beheading)
Unlawful premeditated murder.
Being a member of a city that has gone astray.
[edit] Punishment by Chenek (strangulation)
Committing adultery with another man's wife, where it doesn't fall under the above criteria.
Wounding one's own parent.
Kidnapping another member of Israel.
Prophesying Falsely.
Prophesying in the name of other deities.
A sage who is guilty of insubordination in front of the grand court in the Chamber of the Hewn Stone.

Yes, there are 'capital' crimes in the bible. However, even during the time the Sanhedrin was in existence , actually killing someone for a crime was extremely rare. In the talmud, they point out any time period where there was even one
execution was considered bloody.

There is a lot of exaggeration and performance utterances in the bible. That doesn't mean things were taken literally.

As for Israel, during it's history since 1948, there has only been one execution, and that was in 1962.

From wikipedia


It is generally accepted that one of the reasons for Israel's rare use of the death penalty is Jewish religious law. Biblical law explicitly mandates the death penalty for 36 offenses, from murder and adultery to idolatry and desecration of the Sabbath. Still, Jewish scholars since the beginning of the common era have developed such restrictive rules to prevent execution of the innocent that the death penalty has become de facto illegal. Most modern Jewish religious leaders and scholars believe that the death penalty should remain unused.[citation needed]

"It is better and more satisfactory to acquit a thousand guilty persons than to put a single innocent one to death."[2] Moses Maimonides argued that executing a defendant on anything less than absolute certainty would lead to a slippery slope of decreasing burdens of proof, until we would be convicting merely "according to the judge's caprice." His concern was maintaining popular respect for law, and he saw errors of commission as much more threatening than errors of omission.[3]

[TrueReligion]

Sorry to say, but Your last line I dont agree, beacuse crimes have grown more as time progresses. and the kind of crimes we have today, were not in past few civilzations.

Or, perhaps, what was considered ok many years ago is now considered a crime, such as forcing sex on a wife when she isn't willing is now considered rape, when before it wasn't.

No 1 is forcing wife for sex, wife and husband relation is personal, you can't calalit force.
Its like this, if your mother is working hard, and you ask her to make you tea or something, do you consider it forcing your mother for work?

The main reason is that people changed the justice laws, and made the punishment less. Example, if some1 rape some girl or murder a child, many countries that person will only gets few years in JAIL,. and after coming back, he will be more stronger than before to commit same crime again, because the fear has gone inside him.

The crime trends in the United States over the last 20 years shows your claims are wrong.

You mean this is wrong?

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

Already the western judiciary is admiting that the violance is increasing due to less capital punishment.
On the other hand, if you take countries where punishment is severe, the crime rate also is very less, due to the major factor that people are afraid of comiting crime, knowing he consequence of paying the penalty.

Not according to the justice department figures on violent crime. The rate of violent crime has dropped drastically since 1993


See Goat, you are giving only for US, we are talking in general, the point which I made is that the less punishment made by western countries, didnt help them alot, and tey dont see much decrease in crimes, we dont have to argue much in this, as every knows that the crime rate is not falling due to lack of punishment.

Also, the punishments are given by God, that must have to be followed, but for sure humans should not go beyond the boundary, given by God. Example we can;t burn some1, as its not allowed etc etc

I would love you to demonstrate tangible and empirical evidence that 'punishments are given by God.'

So far, you made lots of claims that the data shows the exact opposite.

Stil you persist that God didnt give punishments to mankind to implement? what Moses taught otherwise?

Arent these punishments in Judaism? can you deny them?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporal_p ... Punishment

The 4 Types of Capital Punishment
It should be noted that, before any capital sentence was carried out, the convicted person was given a drug to render them senseless. There were four types of capital punishment, known as mitath beth din (execution by the rabbinic court). These four types of capital punishment, in decreasing severity, were:

Sekila - stoning
This was performed by pushing a person off a height of at least 2 stories. If the person didn't die, then the executioners (the witnesses) brought a rock that was so large that it took both of them to lift it; this was placed on the convicted person to crush them.
Serefah - burning
This was done by melting lead, and pouring it down the throat of the convicted person.
Hereg - decapitation
This is also known as "being put to the sword."
Chenek - strangulation
A rope was wound around the convicted person's neck, and the executioners (the witnesses) pulled from either side to strangle the convicted person.
[edit] Capital Sins Separated by the 4 Types of Capital Punishment
The following is a list by Maimonides in his Mishneh Torah (Hilchoth Sanhedrin Chapter 15) of which crimes carry a capital punishment.

[edit] Punishment by Sekila (stoning)
Intercourse between a man and his mother.
Intercourse between a man and his father's wife (not necessarily his mother).
Intercourse between a man and his daughter in law.
Intercourse with another man's wife from the first stage of marriage.
Intercourse between two men.
Bestiality.
Cursing the name of God in God's name.
Idol Worship.
Giving one's progeny to Molech.
Necromantic Sorcery.
Pythonic Sorcery.
Attempting to convince another to worship idols.
Instigating a community to worship idols.
Witchcraft.
Violating the Sabbath.
Cursing one's own parent.
A stubborn and rebellious son.
[edit] Punishment by Serefah (burning)
The daughter of a priest who completed the second stage of marriage commits adultery.
Intercourse between a man and his daughter.
Intercourse between a man and his daughter's daughter.
Intercourse between a man and his son's daughter.
Intercourse between a man and his wife's daughter (not necessarily his own daughter).
Intercourse between a man and his wife's daughter's daughter.
Intercourse between a man and his wife's son's daughter.
Intercourse between a man and his mother in law.
Intercourse between a man and his mother in law's mother.
Intercourse between a man and his father in law's mother.
[edit] Punishment by Hereg (beheading)
Unlawful premeditated murder.
Being a member of a city that has gone astray.
[edit] Punishment by Chenek (strangulation)
Committing adultery with another man's wife, where it doesn't fall under the above criteria.
Wounding one's own parent.
Kidnapping another member of Israel.
Prophesying Falsely.
Prophesying in the name of other deities.
A sage who is guilty of insubordination in front of the grand court in the Chamber of the Hewn Stone.

Yes, there are 'capital' crimes in the bible. However, even during the time the Sanhedrin was in existence , actually killing someone for a crime was extremely rare. In the talmud, they point out any time period where there was even one
execution was considered bloody.

There is a lot of exaggeration and performance utterances in the bible. That doesn't mean things were taken literally.

As for Israel, during it's history since 1948, there has only been one execution, and that was in 1962.

From wikipedia


It is generally accepted that one of the reasons for Israel's rare use of the death penalty is Jewish religious law. Biblical law explicitly mandates the death penalty for 36 offenses, from murder and adultery to idolatry and desecration of the Sabbath. Still, Jewish scholars since the beginning of the common era have developed such restrictive rules to prevent execution of the innocent that the death penalty has become de facto illegal. Most modern Jewish religious leaders and scholars believe that the death penalty should remain unused.[citation needed]

"It is better and more satisfactory to acquit a thousand guilty persons than to put a single innocent one to death."[2] Moses Maimonides argued that executing a defendant on anything less than absolute certainty would lead to a slippery slope of decreasing burdens of proof, until we would be convicting merely "according to the judge's caprice." His concern was maintaining popular respect for law, and he saw errors of commission as much more threatening than errors of omission.[3]

It maybe 1 single incident, as Israel is yet to stand as a country and prepare lawand proper enforcement. But as general speaking, eye for an eye, is in all the religions, and we dont have to argue that its not in my religion and in your religion etc etc.

Only discussion to be concluded by the fact, that as per the pain receive by 1 person from another, in ofcourse wrong manner, the same should be given to the culprit, who caused the pain. Otherwise normal punishment or other should be carried out.

Example. if a person rape a women, we can;t implement eye for an eye in this scenario, that the women should also rape that guy. there should be other punishment involved in such kind of cases.