A new Pope

[trencacloscas]

Today the cardinals gather for conclave to select a new Catholic pope.

What does it mean for the non-Catholics?

It's just an open question, for Catholics and non-Catholics alike, since the death of John Paul II created such unexpected expectative. I'm curious about the opinions, that's all.

[Arch]

Now, hold on just a minute. Benedict XVI surely has some unpleasant opinions and will likely preach these anti-humanist messages to the world, but let's get real about comparing someone like the Pope to someone like Hitler.

I think it's all too easy to invoke the ghost of Hitler for comparison purposes, and it is in most cases inappropriate. It's a little early in his papal career to call him a fascist.

There's a little bit of reading things into his writings, here. The context for the quoted material above was the rising secularism in Europe -- Church attendance is way down, and he sees it as the Pope's job to bring it back up. I think it remains to be seen how he'll do this, but I don't think it will involve rounding up Turks and Moroccans and Algerians & putting them into concentration camps.

The Hail Hitler was a joke.

However I don't see the humor in a person talking about who multcultrualism is bad and I can't see why he keep refering to Europeans as if they are the end all be all.

But thats my interpretation.

[Corvus]

Now, hold on just a minute. Benedict XVI surely has some unpleasant opinions and will likely preach these anti-humanist messages to the world, but let's get real about comparing someone like the Pope to someone like Hitler.

I think it's all too easy to invoke the ghost of Hitler for comparison purposes, and it is in most cases inappropriate. It's a little early in his papal career to call him a fascist.

There's a little bit of reading things into his writings, here. The context for the quoted material above was the rising secularism in Europe -- Church attendance is way down, and he sees it as the Pope's job to bring it back up. I think it remains to be seen how he'll do this, but I don't think it will involve rounding up Turks and Moroccans and Algerians & putting them into concentration camps.

What, did you not know that a German + religion + nationalism = Nazi? Well, no, neither did I, until now.

Seriously, this really is a bit extreme, not to mention quite insulting for the man and his flock. The man wishes a religious revival, stating, "so that Europe regains the best of her identity, and puts herself in the service of all mankind", and intends to pursue a rigorous marketing campaign in order to achieve it. This isn't horrible and frightening, it's something that happens every day in the business world.

Congrats Cardinals.

I didnt think they would take my suggestion of making the new Papal state headquarters at neverland ranch anyway.

I am glad they chose such a poor choice. It shows a real desire to cling to old outdated ideas that will only hasten their demise.

Well, I don't think they could have chosen a good candidate - at least not by our standards. Cardinals are appointed by popes, and the last one was quite conservative and took quite some time to die. This means the overwhelming majority of cardinals held views with which Pope John Paul II agreed. The pope elects cardinals and the cardinals elect the pope, so it is a self-perpetuating nightmare.

[trencacloscas]

What, did you not know that a German + religion + nationalism = Nazi? Well, no, neither did I, until now.

Jokes aside...

member of Hitler's youth + 23 years as head of the Inquisition + designer of the sociopolitical intransigence of JPII + anti-multiculturalism right winged opinionated orthodox = Nazi?

I don't know, just tell me. Even his nickname around the Vatican is kinda... funny: 'Der Panzerkardinal'. Catch the irony?

[Corvus]

What, did you not know that a German + religion + nationalism = Nazi? Well, no, neither did I, until now.

Jokes aside...

member of Hitler's youth

...which was compulsory under German law. His father is claimed to have been opposed to the Nazis and probably would not have allowed him to join if he could help it.

23 years as head of the Inquisition

And now he's being subjected to one!

Inquisition sounds ominous, but if by this you mean the office formerly known as the Inquisition - the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith - then I don't see this as particularly relevent. It basically defines doctrines and teachings, which are true and which are false. Of course that includes basically branding homosexuals and transexuals as heretics, and arguing against homosexual unions, but that's their religion and the direction they wish to take it. They aren't exactly burning people at the stake because of it.

designer of the sociopolitical intransigence of JPII

I didn't know this was an action particularly telling of a Nazi.

+ anti-multiculturalism right winged opinionated orthodox

I know of plenty of those sorts of people, but I wouldn't call them Nazis. Holding these sorts of views is not exactly bad - it's what may result of them, and I don't feel that the Pope has the sort of influence to make anyone's life difficult except for, perhaps, homosexuals who are Catholics.

= Nazi?

No. I don't particularly like the guy either...ha una faccia cattiva... but calling him a Nazi is stretching it.

[trencacloscas]

23 years as head of the Inquisition

And now he's being subjected to one!

Soup of his own medicine?

Inquisition sounds ominous, but if by this you mean the office formerly known as the Inquisition - the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith - then I don't see this as particularly relevent. It basically defines doctrines and teachings, which are true and which are false. Of course that includes basically branding homosexuals and transexuals as heretics, and arguing against homosexual unions, but that's their religion and the direction they wish to take it. They aren't exactly burning people at the stake because of it.

Tell homosexuals, apart from Theologists of Liberation and so on.

designer of the sociopolitical intransigence of JPII


I didn't know this was an action particularly telling of a Nazi.

I do. Anyway, don't drive the thing beyond the half joke it is.


I

don't feel that the Pope has the sort of influence to make anyone's life difficult except for, perhaps, homosexuals who are Catholics.

What about third world people that suffers the consequences of anti-condom campaigns?

...ha una faccia cattiva...

Il maledetto!... veramente

[Dilettante]

First off, let me say that I would have preferred an African, Asian, Arab or Latin American Pope. It would have been interesting to see. Ratzinger comes across as too conservative, inflexible, dogmatic, cold and cerebral. I think it is better for the church to be led by a philosophy graduate (Woytila) than by a theologian (Ratzinger). Ratzinger is smart but overly pessimistic about humanity in general, and so far has been a bookworm, much less outgoing than his predecessor.

Having said this, I'm a bit disappointed that some forum members have resorted to the facile Hitler card to attack Ratzinger: the "argumentum ad nazium", a favorite of politicians worldwide. And I totally agree with ST88 and Corvus: it's a bad move. By the same logic, all Germans in his age group would be Nazis. Unfortunately the Hitler card is played too often (remember Rush Limbaugh talking about "feminazis"?), to the extent that the word "nazi" is losing its meaning and today just means "someone whose ideology we profoundly dislike".

The irony of all this is that in the 1960s Ratzinger was actually among the progressives. But then an incident while he was teaching at Tubingen University (some radical leftist students disrupted one of his lectures, snatched the microphone and said something disrespectful to him) made him reconsider and after that he became a hardline conservative.

Perhaps being the new Pope will force him to tone down some of his views. But it's hard to make predictions...especially about the future.

[LillSnopp]

No. I don't particularly like the guy either...ha una faccia cattiva... but calling him a Nazi is stretching it.

I dont really agree with the Nazi stooge. As Dilettante pointed out, He is just called this because he is German. Sure, you can have fun about it, you should, but not over-exaggerate it.

But Dilettante, an philosophy graduate? How likely would one of does be in that position, that they would be able to become a Pope. And less likely to be religious at all. Optimist ?


Personally, i dont really care, as long as the new one keeps quite i am happy. I doubt many people actually listen to what the Vatican have to say anymore (or?).

[Dilettante]

LillSnopp wrote:

But Dilettante, an philosophy graduate? How likely would one of does be in that position, that they would be able to become a Pope. And less likely to be religious at all. Optimist ?

I know it sounds strange, but it's not impossible. John Paul II actually was a philosophy graduate.

Perhaps agnosticism is currently the most popular philosophical position, but there have been and there still are many philosophers who hold religious beliefs.

[otseng]

I found this article interesting about the new pope - New Pope A Strong Critic of War

Even after the war, Ratzinger did not cease criticism of U.S. violence and imperialism: "it was right to resist the war and its threats of destruction...It should never be the responsibility of just one nation to make decisions for the world."

"There were not sufficient reasons to unleash a war against Iraq. To say nothing of the fact that, given the new weapons that make possible destructions that go beyond the combatant groups, today we should be asking ourselves if it is still licit to admit the very existence of a 'just war'."

In 1945 he made the decision to desert his post in the German army. When he was spotted and stopped by SS troops, he could have been shot on the spot. They did not harm him, using his wound (his arm was in a sling) as an excuse.

(BTW, I am moving this thread to Current Events.)

[LillSnopp]

John Paul II actually was a philosophy graduate.

I didnt know that, any particular field ?