marriage

[chariots_of_iron]

I find it interesting when I hear Christians say that they support bible marriage which they define as one man and one woman. However, this does not seem to be the case. Consider Solomon for instance who had over 700 wives, not including many concubines. There is no indication anywhere in the bible that God disapproved of this. How can anyone say then that the bible is against polygamy when several men of God had numerous wives?

[Angel]

I'm not an expert here, but I think it may be that by the time of Paul's letters, monogamy, a dyad, seemed to be the preferred form.

Monogamy became the custom (not law) after the Babylonian exile. Law did not catch up with custom until the 11th century

I agree with you Goat but I think your point probably applies more to Jewish communities and Judaism. In Christianity, I have not been able to find any offical date or proclamation of when polygamy was banned but its clear that some early Christian leaders argued against it. The ban or disapproval on polygamy may have been a gradual process although I believe Christian leaders simply incorporated monogamy-only 'marriage' laws that were already in existence in the Roman Empire. This leads me to my next point. If you want to look at the monogamy-only marriage stance in the greater world (Greek and Roman Empire) then it existed before the 1st century CE. Both Empires only acknowledged monogamy as a legitimate form of marriage. I'll provide some sources below for further reading.

Sources:
For monogamy in the Greek Empire-
Monogamy and Polygyny (a paper written by historian Walter Scheidel of Stanford University)-
http://www.princeton.edu/~pswpc/pdfs/sc ... 010903.pdf --------- Scroll down to page 3 starting with section titled, Greek Monogamy and Polygyny. Also scroll down to pg. 4 to the section titled, Roman Monogamy and Polygyny.

For monogamy in the Roman Empire-
Monogamy and Polygyny (a paper written by historian Walter Scheidel of Stanford University)-
http://www.princeton.edu/~pswpc/pdfs/sc ... 010903.pdf --------- Scroll down to page 4 starting with section titled, Roman Monogamy and Polygyny


I have other sources, as well, but I don't want to give more than needed. Send me a private message if you want any more info. When I get enough tokens then perhaps I'll start a polygamy or poly lifestyle subforum.

[Angel]

Both First Timothy 3:12 and Titus 1:6 list a series of ethical commands that are common for all Christians. In first Timothy a Deacon is called to be sincere, not indulging in much wine, not pursuing dishonest gain, keeping hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience, a “one-woman man,� and able to manage his household.

With the exception of “one-woman man� all of these are ethical commands for all Christian repeated in other places in the New Testament. I would find it a strange interpretation to say that in the midst of all these ethical commands common to all Christian Paul throws in one that is just for leaders. A more natural reading is that Paul is talking about some of the ethics for all followers of Christ and saying that church leaders should have demonstrated the basic ability to live a Christian life.

I don't agree with bjs point about the standards of being a Bishop applying to all Christians to follow. Bishops are to be married so if the standards for them applied to everyone then all should be married. That's not the case of course.

While God extends being saved to everyone- Jews and Gentiles, instead of just Jews, but that doesn't mean that every other aspect of life would apply in the same way to everyone nor that everyone has to be or do the same. There are still different roles and with those roles can come different rules. We find different roles with some different rules between the roles between God and us, between the married and single, between husband and wife, between men and women in general, so I'm not sure why would there be an issue between different rules between Christian leaders and the laity. This is also parallel to the Law where those in leadership had some different rules compared to the general population of Jews. For example, the High Priest could only marry a 'virgin' (Leviticus 21:10, 13-15) while the general population was not restricted by such rules.

[Yahu]

Both First Timothy 3:12 and Titus 1:6 list a series of ethical commands that are common for all Christians. In first Timothy a Deacon is called to be sincere, not indulging in much wine, not pursuing dishonest gain, keeping hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience, a “one-woman man,� and able to manage his household.

With the exception of “one-woman man� all of these are ethical commands for all Christian repeated in other places in the New Testament. I would find it a strange interpretation to say that in the midst of all these ethical commands common to all Christian Paul throws in one that is just for leaders. A more natural reading is that Paul is talking about some of the ethics for all followers of Christ and saying that church leaders should have demonstrated the basic ability to live a Christian life.

I don't agree with bjs point about the standards of being a Bishop applying to all Christians to follow. Bishops are to be married so if the standards for them applied to everyone then all should be married. That's not the case of course.

While God extends being saved to everyone- Jews and Gentiles, instead of just Jews, but that doesn't mean that every other aspect of life would apply in the same way to everyone nor that everyone has to be or do the same. There are still different roles and with those roles can come different rules. We find different roles with some different rules between the roles between God and us, between the married and single, between husband and wife, between men and women in general, so I'm not sure why would there be an issue between different rules between Christian leaders and the laity. This is also parallel to the Law where those in leadership had some different rules compared to the general population of Jews. For example, the High Priest could only marry a 'virgin' (Leviticus 21:10, 13-15) while the general population was not restricted by such rules.

I agree Angel. The requirements for different groups have different standards. Those that are in positions of authority are held to higher standards so as not to be brought under judgement by others.

As a former polygamist, I have been through this theological argument. A point that needs to be brought up is having multiple wives adds additional conflict within a household. It is MUCH more difficult to have a well behaved family life with more then 1 wife.

There is no biblical restriction on multiple wives, it is just not the ideal. Someone in spiritual leadership should be conforming to the ideal.

[Angel]

Both First Timothy 3:12 and Titus 1:6 list a series of ethical commands that are common for all Christians. In first Timothy a Deacon is called to be sincere, not indulging in much wine, not pursuing dishonest gain, keeping hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience, a “one-woman man,� and able to manage his household.

With the exception of “one-woman man� all of these are ethical commands for all Christian repeated in other places in the New Testament. I would find it a strange interpretation to say that in the midst of all these ethical commands common to all Christian Paul throws in one that is just for leaders. A more natural reading is that Paul is talking about some of the ethics for all followers of Christ and saying that church leaders should have demonstrated the basic ability to live a Christian life.

I don't agree with bjs point about the standards of being a Bishop applying to all Christians to follow. Bishops are to be married so if the standards for them applied to everyone then all should be married. That's not the case of course.

While God extends being saved to everyone- Jews and Gentiles, instead of just Jews, but that doesn't mean that every other aspect of life would apply in the same way to everyone nor that everyone has to be or do the same. There are still different roles and with those roles can come different rules. We find different roles with some different rules between the roles between God and us, between the married and single, between husband and wife, between men and women in general, so I'm not sure why would there be an issue between different rules between Christian leaders and the laity. This is also parallel to the Law where those in leadership had some different rules compared to the general population of Jews. For example, the High Priest could only marry a 'virgin' (Leviticus 21:10, 13-15) while the general population was not restricted by such rules.

I agree Angel. The requirements for different groups have different standards. Those that are in positions of authority are held to higher standards so as not to be brought under judgement by others.

As a former polygamist, I have been through this theological argument. A point that needs to be brought up is having multiple wives adds additional conflict within a household. It is MUCH more difficult to have a well behaved family life with more then 1 wife.

There is no biblical restriction on multiple wives, it is just not the ideal. Someone in spiritual leadership should be conforming to the ideal.

Good points, Yahu. I'm sure no one would say that when the Bible mentions for women or slaves to be submissive, that this means for EVERYONE to be submissive, including husbands. So I'm not sure why this same point can't be kept with the rules between leaders and the common people.

I found a verse that goes with some of your points here. The Apostle Paul connects having a wife with the potential amount of devotion or amount of service to God. In the following passages, he mentions that having a wife can divide someone's focus so that of course would mean that the more wives you have then the more that draws away focus since you have more to deal with. Although, Paul is careful not to call being married a sin but it seems he prefers being unmarried.


1 Corinthians 7:32-35
I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord’s affairs-how he can please the Lord. But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world-how he can please his wife-and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord’s affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world-how she can please her husband. I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord.

1 Corinthians, 7:27
Are you pledged to a woman? Do not seek to be released. Are you free from such a commitment? Do not look for a wife.