Brahman and Nirvana vs Non-existence

[CelPatBruYanks]

I will start off by saying that my understanding of Eastern religions is limited, I am a "westerner" and as such, understanding the logic of eastern thinking is sometimes difficult for me, and my experience and knowledge of Hinduism and Buddhism are limited.

That said, what is the difference between:

Brahman and non-existence?

Nirvana and non-existence?

Both of them, with Nirvana in particular, don't seem to be all that different from non-existence. If the Atman/Consciousness is not self-aware but is essentially a disembodied consciousness floating around, how is that different from your consciousness simply ceasing to exist?

[Divine Insight]

You are attempting to shoot the messenger, because you don't like God's message. The hate and judgments are coming from you not me! I see it to be love to warn someone they are in a burning building. I know not to take you seriously now!

But it wouldn't be love if you're the arsonist who set the building on fire.

You seem to have totally missed the point to the Abrahamic religions. What you need to be 'saved' from is an angry jealous God.

There is no other threat being made.

What you need to be saved from is the wrath of the God himself.

[Burninglight]

You are attempting to shoot the messenger, because you don't like God's message. The hate and judgments are coming from you not me! I see it to be love to warn someone they are in a burning building. I know not to take you seriously now!

But it wouldn't be love if you're the arsonist who set the building on fire.

You seem to have totally missed the point to the Abrahamic religions. What you need to be 'saved' from is an angry jealous God.

There is no other threat being made.

What you need to be saved from is the wrath of the God himself.

I didn't start hell's fire. You are right God is angry with the wicked everyday and He is a jealous God. So, if you won't hear me, how to you plan to save yourself from such a God?

[JohnPaul]

Burninglight wrote:

You are attempting to shoot the messenger, because you don't like God's message. The hate and judgments are coming from you not me! I see it to be love to warn someone they are in a burning building. I know not to take you seriously now!

Ah, now I understand! You are the Chosen One!!! Your great value and worth has been recognized, you have been granted the True Light, you have been lifted up among your fellows and delegated the awesome responsibility of delivering the Mighty Word to your unfortunate fellows wallowing in darkness, to reveal unto them the terrible punishment in store for them if they do not grovel at your feet and accept your every Holy Word!

Please tell us again how humble and unworthy you are, oh Chosen Messenger!!

[Divine Insight]

I didn't start hell's fire. You are right God is angry with the wicked everyday and He is a jealous God. So, if you won't hear me, how to you plan to save yourself from such a God?

So you believe that you are superior to God and that you can succeed where he failed?

Why do you think so lowly of your God?

If your God inspired men to write his "Holy Book" to convince people that he is the creator of all mankind, and he failed to convince me. Then why on "God's Green Earth" (if you like) should you be so arrogant to think that you could succeed?

This is a huge oxymoron concerning evangelism itself.

Evangelists are nothing more than people who have absolutely no faith in their God to be able to do anything right on his own. They feel that they must do everything for God because he's so totally inept, including convincing people to believe in God because clearly the God himself failed horribly in that department.

Christianity, as a religion, tends to attract egotists who love to have an excuse to "preach" to people in the name of God. Because unfortunately the religion condones this sort of madness. But if you stop and think about it for just a split second you should be able to see how utterly absurd it is.

You are attempting to succeed as something that both the God of Abraham and Jesus failed at miserably. How can you even think for one second that you could do something that the God of Abraham and Jesus couldn't even do?

That truly has to be the epitome of arrogance isn't it?

You're going to "save" someone where God and Jesus both FAILED?

The irony of that alone should be all the proof you need to realize just how utterly false the religion necessarily has to be.

[Burninglight]

I didn't start hell's fire. You are right God is angry with the wicked everyday and He is a jealous God. So, if you won't hear me, how to you plan to save yourself from such a God?

So you believe that you are superior to God and that you can succeed where he failed?

Why do you think so lowly of your God?

If your God inspired men to write his "Holy Book" to convince people that he is the creator of all mankind, and he failed to convince me. Then why on "God's Green Earth" (if you like) should you be so arrogant to think that you could succeed?

This is a huge oxymoron concerning evangelism itself.

Evangelists are nothing more than people who have absolutely no faith in their God to be able to do anything right on his own. They feel that they must do everything for God because he's so totally inept, including convincing people to believe in God because clearly the God himself failed horribly in that department.

Christianity, as a religion, tends to attract egotists who love to have an excuse to "preach" to people in the name of God. Because unfortunately the religion condones this sort of madness. But if you stop and think about it for just a split second you should be able to see how utterly absurd it is.

You are attempting to succeed as something that both the God of Abraham and Jesus failed at miserably. How can you even think for one second that you could do something that the God of Abraham and Jesus couldn't even do?

That truly has to be the epitome of arrogance isn't it?

You're going to "save" someone where God and Jesus both FAILED?

The irony of that alone should be all the proof you need to realize just how utterly false the religion necessarily has to be.

Do you mind telling me what you're talking about? Instead of telling me what I am doing show me or prove it somehow. Otherwise, you are making no sense.
Where did I say I can succeed where God failed or imply that? I asked you a question in the previous post that you didn't answer. What is your plan to save yourself from a terrible, jealous & awesome God. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. What are your plans???

[otseng]

You are 80 and soon you will be meeting your Creator. You don't want to go into eternity believing that eastern demonic stuff. It is just a bunch of intellectual gibberish that will profit you nothing. There is only one name given whereby we might be saved and that is Jesus Christ.

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[Haven]

Deleted; off topic. Disregard.

[Divine Insight]

Do you mind telling me what you're talking about? Instead of telling me what I am doing show me or prove it somehow. Otherwise, you are making no sense.
Where did I say I can succeed where God failed or imply that?

From my perspective it appears to me that you are attempting to convince me that the ancient Hebrew stories are the "Word of God" and that I must do as they say in order to be "saved" from the wrath of that God. So you are trying to convince me that the Hebrew folklore is not merely superstition but is instead the actual "Word of God".

My point is that if it is the "Word of God" then this God himself has failed to convince me that he's real via this supposedly inspired "Holy Book". But you are apparently thinking that you could do better than the Hebrew God and somehow succeed in convincing me where the Hebrew God has failed to do so. So I can only conclude that you feel that you can succeed where your God has failed.

This thread is about Hinduism, Buddhism, and Eastern Mysticism. (i.e. Brahman and Nirvana) With this in mind I'll be glad to tell you what my "plans" are as you inquire about next.

I asked you a question in the previous post that you didn't answer. What is your plan to save yourself from a terrible, jealous & awesome God. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. What are your plans???

Well, to begin with I don't believe in the terrible, jealous & awesome God of the Hebrews. I reject that superstition to have no more merit than the Greek mythology of Zeus. So I have no need to pacify any angry Mediterranean Gods.

You say, "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."

I'm truly sorry that you feel that way about your creator. But that's the Hebrew picture. I personally do not fear my creator. I have no reason to fear my creator. I see my creator as a very loving entity. There is nothing to fear from the divine. Especially for me, as I have done nothing evil.

Why should you fear a divine God unless you yourself are evil? The Hebrews try to convince everyone that they are evil, especially if they refuse to buy into the Hebrew religion. But I don't buy into the Hebrew brainwashing schemes. I don't believe there is anything divine about their fear-based tactics.

This is where the Eastern mystical picture of God comes into play. There is nothing unreasonable about the Eastern mystical picture of God. Such a "God" is truly divine in every imaginable way and is certainly nothing to fear. Unless, of course, you yourself are indeed a very evil person. But if you're that evil, not only should you fear, but you also know precisely why you have good reason to fear. You would be intentionally doing things that you know in your heart are indeed wrong and against the will of any divine creator.

Only evil people should fear a truly divine creator. Since I know that I'm not an evil person I have nothing to fear. I'm not about to allow the ancient Hebrews to brainwash me into thinking that I'm an evil person, I know better than to fall for such utter nonsense.

Instead I chose to have my relationship with God (my creator) through philosophies like Taoism, Buddhism, and Wicca. I embrace all three of these abstract and malleable philosophies and tailor them precisely to my relationship with the divine.

It is a relationship between me and my creator. It has nothing to do with your relationship between you and your creator. You have chosen to fear your creator and you have a plan to avoid His wrath. I have chosen to love my creator and I have a plan to share love with my creator.

I love my God. And I have no reason to fear a God that I love.

In fact, if I had a reason to fear God how could I love God? How can you love something that you fear? A fear-based relationship cannot be a love-based relationship. Those two basis are not compatible with each other.

You can't love that which you fear.

I chose divine pictures of a truly divine creator. My personal choices are various aspects of Taoism, Buddhism, and Wicca. These abstract spiritual paradigms are totally compatible and work well together in harmony with no conflict.

So my "Plan" is to have a truly loving, honest, and sincere relationship with the creator through these very sane, loving and divine spiritual philosophies and paradigms.

If our creator turns out to be the monster that the ancient Hebrews created so be it. I will have been wrong and our true creator will be a demon. Not much I can do about that if that's the truth of reality.

But in the meantime, I'd rather not even know that this is how dismal reality truly is. I'd rather believe in a genuinely loving and sane creator for as long as I can.

If our creator turns out the be the monster that the ancient Hebrews created then no one is safe, not even those who believe that they have a "plan" to avoid his unreasonable wrath. So if the Hebrews were right, then it will be a nightmare for everyone no matter what they believe or how desperately they tried to avoid the wrath of such an unreasonable God.

At least I'll have the memories of a time when I pretended that God might actually be nice.

[Burninglight]

If our creator turns out the be the monster that the ancient Hebrews created then no one is safe, not even those who believe that they have a "plan" to avoid his unreasonable wrath. So if the Hebrews were right, then it will be a nightmare for everyone no matter what they believe or how desperately they tried to avoid the wrath of such an unreasonable God.

At least I'll have the memories of a time when I pretended that God might actually be nice.

Yes, I can understand you seeing the Hebrew God as a terror. It is written that all have sinned and come short of God's glory and the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Christ. We can be safe from the Hebrew's terrible God who is the only Creator through Christ. Jesus taught forgiveness and love your neighbor as yourself and to love God with all your mind heart and soul. God has made a way to escape his horrible judgments and a way to walk in peace love and happiness. He wouldn't take second place. His name is Jealous and He is real. He judged the Jews for their idols. He won't tolerate anyone's idols. Anything we put in front of Him is an idol

[Divine Insight]

Yes, I can understand you seeing the Hebrew God as a terror. It is written that all have sinned and come short of God's glory and the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Christ. We can be safe from the Hebrew's terrible God who is the only Creator through Christ. Jesus taught forgiveness and love your neighbor as yourself and to love God with all your mind heart and soul. God has made a way to escape his horrible judgments and a way to walk in peace love and happiness. He wouldn't take second place. His name is Jealous and He is real. He judged the Jews for their idols. He won't tolerate anyone's idols. Anything we put in front of Him is an idol

I understand that this is what you believe.

Like I say, I personally feel that philosophies like Taoism, Buddhism, and Wicca are far wiser and more likely to represent divinity than the fables of the Hebrews.

Besides, just as you point out in your short narrative above even Christianity can't be about "Obeying Jesus". Like you said, "We can be safe from the Hebrew's terrible God who is the only Creator through Christ."

But even if that were true it couldn't be through "Obedience to the Christ". The reason being that if mankind were capable of obeying God they could have done it in the first place without any need for the "Sacrificial Lamb" of Jesus.

The idea is supposed to be that mankind cannot obey God on his own merit. Therefore it doesn't make any sense to think they he could obey Jesus either. After all, if he could obey Jesus, then he could obey God. But if he could obey God then there would be no need for Jesus as the "Sacrificial Lamb".

So if you are "Saved through Christ" you are saved as a matter of "Grace" not as a matter of having earned your salvation through obedience.

So the idea of obedience would need to be taken out of the equation altogether in Christianity. If you couldn't obey God on your own merit, then you're not going to be able to obey Jesus on your own merit either.

So it can only be a "Gift of Grace". And if that's the case then anyone who accepts the Grace of Jesus will receive it. They wouldn't even need to believe in Jesus or even have ever heard of him. Jesus can save anyone he so choses through grace alone. Because he's the one who paid the price of the sacrificial lamb to do that.

In other words, Jesus has already saved the entire world from the wrath of the horrible Hebrew God. In fact, the scriptures even have him saying so, "I have come not to judge the world but to save it".

So you've been saved. I hope you feel better now.

And so has everyone else. Thank you Jesus!

Are you happy now?

Accept that Jesus is indeed the "Savior" of the world, and take a huge load off your mind. It's not up to you to worry about anyone's salvation. Jesus already took care of all that.

I mean, if you're going to believe in Jesus as the Savior of the world get on with it and quit acting like everyone is in dire need of salvation. Jesus already took care of that, and he doesn't require your assistance.

You've been freed by Jesus from the horrors of the Hebrew God of Abraham, and if you'd now like to go over an meet the Moon Goddess it's perfectly ok. She's a very loving Goddess and poses no threats at all. Jesus is probably over there having a cup of herbal tea with her as we speak.