World is still here, and I am still a skeptic.

[playhavock]

So, the world did not end, and I think some are now saying it will New Years day, well of course, keep saying it, one day it will be true. But not any time soon and not within our life time. Now, that sillyness aside, I'm still a sketpic. And I've been reserching if Jesus Christ existed at all, my conclusion is that one can not say at all if he did as an actual person. That is to say, there is most likely no one person who lead a cult of early people to fourm christanity, but there were plenty of people named Jesus, as it was a common name. The facts just outweigh the auguments. Now, I can not say that there never was a person named Jesus Christ, that is just imposible, it is most possible given all I've studyed that what is known as a mystery relgion in the ancent world during the time of 0-20 became very envalistic so much so that they attraced new members and even one person who was littere enough to write down the storys they were telling.

One common augument regarding the late dating (20 years after Christ was said to die) is that this is still early enough to interview whoever might have actualy seen Christ. Okay, sure. Where are those interviews? They are not there. But, this is actualy made a moot point, we can see the writing that whoever wrote this failed utterly to do proper reserch to make a convincing story, there was no censous taken for example - well that is a blaring error - so here is one of several explations - whoever wrote this based it on a story someone told them, and thus, because they simply took there word for it, did not reserch to find out if it was true. Now, if that is true, then this whole augment for that people would have been around to interview no longer matters - because it is clear that if the person who wrote that this event happened could not be bothered to reserch THAT - why should it be any difernet in lack of reserch for interviewing people who actualy met Jesus?

So this augument fails in light of the facts at hand. Jesus is a myth, and this myth is busted.

Now the question at hand is - do the facts matter? Can Christanty still stand if they accepted that Jesus is nothing more then myth but it does not matter? Is the proper way to be Christan not to belive that Jesus existed, but rather that the idea of Jesus is to afferm that God is real?

However, I suspect most Christans will simply assert Christ was/is real and offer no proof on the matter.

[Moses Yoder]

I present as evidence Wikipedia's Historicity of Jesus If Jesus didn't exist, most modern scholars of history are incorrect. I see you do not present any evidence, just conjecture, thus my argument is stronger than yours.

Interesting that article relies heavily on the writings of Tacitus, Josephus and Pliny the Younger as it's key sources, even though they were all written decades after the alleged event of crucifixion.

So your position is that because no Bible was written about my Grandparents, they didn't exist? (they have no birth certificate as far as I know). I better write my father's biography for fear I might cease to exist!

[playhavock]

Tex does not answer any quesiton I asked. However, I will answer his. I hope that he might answer my prevous questions by my doing this, but I fear that hope shall be dashed.

Do you believe Portugal exist because of the people or because of the land the Portuguese people are on? Maybe it because you have seen Portuguese people.

It is because there is emperical evedance they exist that I do not have to belive they exist, I can know they exist.

Do you believe because something happened in another country before you were born, it never happened?

Depends on what evedance there is for or agenst it.

Or before the creation of TV?

You can not trust all you see on TV. However techonligy does alow us to keep better history then those of the past did.

Do you believe Rome to be thousands of years old?

Agian, I do not have to belive, I can look at the evedance to find out for serten.

Maybe Rome is a myth and was only created after Lord Jesus?

No.

You just want attention and are creating this subject to mock Christians.

Ad hominem, conjecture.

Would you believe Joseph Smith existed?

I do not have to, there is evedance of his exstance that is not only found in the writings of the Mormans.

Do you believe Mohammed existed?

Not sure here, I've not reserched him.

It's really is up to you to make these choices isn't it.

There is no choice, there is only evedance.

What about Saint Paul and the Apostles, do you believe they existed?

No I do not. Do you have any evidance they did?

Are you saying: All you need is to have something written by Lord Jesus to believe he existed?

No. I would have no way to verify that it was actualy writen by him. I could myself write something and sign it "Lord Jesus".

Would that be enough?

No.

Now, perhaps you will answer my question:

Do you have any evidance for me to look at that will change my view that Jesus Christ was ever an actual person outside of the NT and/or OT (Chistan Bible)?

Would you perchance answer any or all of my prevous questions, if not please say so so I can do the same for you in return. If so, then please do so.

....

Moses Yoder, you can try to use the "same" augment but since the people in quesiton can be proven then you will fail. Nice try though. Keep thinking!

[A Troubled Man]

So your position is that because no Bible was written about my Grandparents, they didn't exist? (they have no birth certificate as far as I know).

Odd, I don't recall making that claim, but perhaps you could point out where I did?

The position is that Tacitus, Josephus and Pliny the Younger's writings are being used as the key evidence for Jesus existence, which is highly debatable considering they wrote it decades later with no sources to back them up.

[playhavock]

Still waiting on any of my questions to be answered by Tex. Also thinking more on what Mosas wrote, even if none of the people existed who would have said that Jesus existed, that only adds to the problem that no one was around to say Jesus existed, so is a pour rebutal to the augment.

Still waiting...

[Tex]

Still waiting on any of my questions to be answered by Tex. Also thinking more on what Mosas wrote, even if none of the people existed who would have said that Jesus existed, that only adds to the problem that no one was around to say Jesus existed, so is a pour rebutal to the augment.

Still waiting...

Tex: As per your answer to me....We see that you pick and choose what you want to believe.
That's all I needed to know.
Thanks

[playhavock]

No answer to any of my questions Tex, next time you ask questions I shall not answer them since you did not do that for me. Treat others as you wish to be treated and all that.
Ah well, you have no augument and no evendace and nothing to offer, I am somehow not suprised, at least Mosas is trying.