Hugo Chavez and "Bolivarism"

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The Persnickety Platypus
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Hugo Chavez and "Bolivarism"

Post #1

Post by The Persnickety Platypus »

Split from the Pat Robertson thread...



He is a public figure making good money with his insane rantings.


And feeding and clothing the poor.
Which is would explain his opposition to Chavez, a man who (*gasp*) uses his country's massive oil profits to support the needy!

Doubling the Venezualan weekly minimum wage?!?! We Christians cannot stand for this abomination!

Put good old Hugo in charge of Pat's profits. Poverty would be abolished overnight.




But seriously, we all know the real reason Robertson despises Chavez. Don't pretend you don't. All that precious oil money could be going to US corporations, who would be further equipted to continue their highly successful plight of screwing over the American people. Don't let his preaching of "moral values" fool you, all any true Right-Winger wants is to further fatten our friendly American corporate overlord's wallets.
So, why don't the Bush Administration and the right-wing extremists and religious fanatics in the U.S. like Hugo Chavez? Venezuela, after all, supplies the U.S. with 12 per cent of its imported oil and sits on top of the eighth largest known oil field in the world.

Oil is the problem not that Venezuela has it, but what Hugo Chavez does with it. Rather than gratuitously fatten the profit margins of the international oil companies, the Venezuelan government under Chavez extracts higher taxes and fees from those companies, and plows that money back into the people of Venezuela. He facilitates the formation of grassroots organizations and worker cooperatives amongst Venezuela's poor.


He has increased the minimum wage from about $25 per week to about $40 per week, and raised personal income taxes up to a rate of 10-15 per cent. He has established food programs to feed the poor and traded oil to Cuba for doctors and teachers who provide free health care to the poor and enhanced educational opportunities. He has used oil wealth to increase public works in order to provide more jobs for Venezuelans.

Imagine, using national resources to improve the national society and raise living standards for the poorest citizens. Imagine increasing access to education, health care and affordable food. It flies in the face of modern, corporate capitalism and the demand for ever lower costs for resources and labour.

And, as far as the U.S. and its corporate sponsors are concerned, it sets a bad example for the rest of Latin America. Imagine if Chavez's programs of redirecting wealth to the people of the countries where it is produced rather than letting it be sucked out by foreign investors should catch on. That is the other part of the problem.

Chavez has named his political and social philosophy Bolivarianism and is pursuing a Bolivarian Revolution, not just for Venezuela but for most of South America. The name comes from that of Simon Bolivar who liberated what are now Peru, Bolivia, Ecuador, Columbia and Venezuela from Spain in the early 19th Century. In this century Chavez is providing support to populist movements in neighbouring countries, a move clearly designed to spread his Bolivarian philosophy throughout the South American continent.

He is making oil deals with Brazil and Argentina and advocating Latin American military and trade alliances to challenge the power of the U.S. in the region. Venezuela, too, is the major partner in a Latin American satellite television network, Telesur, along with Argentina, Cuba and Uruguay, which will provide a counter point to the messages broadcast to South America by U.S. networks like CNN.

Chavez is plainly becoming a regional leader in an area long dominated by U.S. influence and interference. Like Simon Bolivar before him, who challenged the rule of the Spanish, Chavez has become a challenge in the region to the power of the United States.
As you can see, a truly evil man.
Last edited by The Persnickety Platypus on Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post #11

Post by The Persnickety Platypus »

Chavez is a socialist...not a communist.
Very true.
I'm curious how the "Christian man" treated his "enemies?"
Most of whom who are twice as evil in reality as the conservative media paint's Chavez?

Hugo treats his ememies with all the respect they deserve. Absolutely none.

I am generally anti-violence in ALL situations, but this is substantially different. The poor have turned their cheek against oppression for centuries. No more, it's time to fight back.

I don't particularly care whether Chavez's handling of opposition is Christianly or not. The beneficial effects of his regime are undeniable. Do you think he could have brought this about while sticking the democratic standard? Of course not, the elitists (US equivalent: Republicans) are experts at hijacking the system (like disquising their agenda with "Christian fundamentalism"). The Socialist revolution in America is long overdue. Hopefully the immense success in Venezuela will inspire the American lower class to start their own coup.
I'm also curious if dreams of owning anything other than a squalid apartment sanctioned and allowed by the "socialist" state is anything a person can actually attain in this new leftist utopia setup by the Christian Chavez?
You really don't get it. This was the exact situation BEFORE Hugo came into power. One missionary (I forget his name) described a particular city as a "desert of slums, bisected by a small oasis of gated estates".

Now look what is happening. The employment rate is on the rise, and the once extinct middle class is rising from the ashes. Didn't you read that article I posted about the Venezuelan lady who under the revises system has been able to fix the leaks in her roof and learn to read? Talk to the impoverished general populace. They will all tell you how impowered they feel (and are) since the elitists were thrown out. It is a well known fact amoung unbiased sources.
Maybe "I" a right-wing conservative believer in a free market economy, and free man indeed, may just fly down to Venezuela and check out how free the dreams of these people are to becoming a reality.
I wish you would. Your observations are likely to be the same as every single missionary who has visited since 1998.

But of course, who wants to listen to the honest missionary workers when you can turn on Fox News and get the "real" scoop?

All those in Philantropolic professions are just hethen liberals anyway, right?
So when can we apply this new utopian concept of an "ekected officiel" to the American Presidency.
What better time to start than now?

But just you wait, it is going to happen. That is, if history is to be trusted.
I feel very safe with President Bush in office for another thirty years.
Then I can only assume your payroll extends into the hundreds of thousands. Because if not, you are voting solely against your own interests.

But seriously, on a slightly different subject, what has George done for America that everyone is so hyped about? Name one thing he has accomplished. Of course, there is the complete destruction of both the economy and environment (the later he attempted to sacrafice for the sake of the former, ironically), and our recent involvement in the never ending oil war. But what about the fundamentalist issues he has sworn to? Abortion is still legal. Gays still have rights. The plutocratic assault on social security simply dropped off the face of the planet.

Compare his puny reperotire to Hugo's. The immense difference is quite comical.
Ah but the GOP has a healthy and vibrant and more importantly a free opposition party filled with members not in prisons. Though I know one Massachusetts Democrat senator that deserves to be.
And about fifty Republican politicians as well. Seriously, what is the current count? There's Libby, Delay, Frist, Bush, Cheney......... tell you what, we'll just make it simple and condemn them all.

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Post #12

Post by 1John2_26 »

Quote:
Chavez is a socialist...not a communist.

Very true.
They always evolve into totalitarian sociopaths. A rose by any other name is still a genocidal maniac. Chavez is the new color.
Quote:
I'm curious how the "Christian man" treated his "enemies?"

Most of whom who are twice as evil in reality as the conservative media paint's Chavez?

Hugo treats his ememies with all the respect they deserve. Absolutely none.


Spoken like a Marxist with his barrel pointed and the gun loaded and cocked. Of course.
I am generally anti-violence in ALL situations, but this is substantially different. The poor have turned their cheek against oppression for centuries.
The poor cocaine famers currently rallying to commie propaganda? Of course.
No more, it's time to fight back.


Socialism-communism-genocide. Sounds so familiar.
I don't particularly care whether Chavez's handling of opposition is Christianly or not. The beneficial effects of his regime are undeniable. Do you think he could have brought this about while sticking the democratic standard?
Sounds like a ringing endorsement of George W. Bush and Iraq! Now, we're getting somewhere.
Of course not, the elitists (US equivalent: Republicans) are experts at hijacking the system (like disquising their agenda with "Christian fundamentalism").
Oh well so much for sanity and socialism connected.
The Socialist revolution in America is long overdue. Hopefully the immense success in Venezuela will inspire the American lower class to start their own coup.
Let the blood flow? Well, well, well. I hope the poor have a lot of sponges if they try that sh-- in my country.
Quote:
I'm also curious if dreams of owning anything other than a squalid apartment sanctioned and allowed by the "socialist" state is anything a person can actually attain in this new leftist utopia setup by the Christian Chavez?
You really don't get it. This was the exact situation BEFORE Hugo came into power. One missionary (I forget his name) described a particular city as a "desert of slums, bisected by a small oasis of gated estates".


And theb poor flood to the United States of America to attain the wealth they desire. It is called the "American dream."
Now look what is happening. The employment rate is on the rise, and the once extinct middle class is rising from the ashes. Didn't you read that article I posted about the Venezuelan lady who under the revises system has been able to fix the leaks in her roof and learn to read?


Now look what's happening. Revolutionist propaganda followed by the sheeple once again. How many people leave Cuba for America every single day?
Talk to the impoverished general populace. They will all tell you how impowered they feel (and are) since the elitists were thrown out. It is a well known fact amoung unbiased sources.


Unbiased communist/socialist sources comrade? Uhhhhh, yeeeaaah.
Quote:
Maybe "I" a right-wing conservative believer in a free market economy, and free man indeed, may just fly down to Venezuela and check out how free the dreams of these people are to becoming a reality.
I wish you would. Your observations are likely to be the same as every single missionary who has visited since 1998.


Communist missionaries?
But of course, who wants to listen to the honest missionary workers when you can turn on Fox News and get the "real" scoop?


Fox News the scourge of the liars on the left. Free speech terrifies a leftist.
All those in Philantropolic professions are just hethen liberals anyway, right?
You left out "godless."
Quote:
So when can we apply this new utopian concept of an "elected officiel" to the American Presidency.

What better time to start than now?

But just you wait, it is going to happen. That is, if history is to be trusted.
I am ready for civil war. Absolutely ready.
Quote:
I feel very safe with President Bush in office for another thirty years.
Then I can only assume your payroll extends into the hundreds of thousands. Because if not, you are voting solely against your own interests.


My family and the very concept is supported by Bush. I'll fight for them until I cannot physically do so. Socialism always spawns violence.
But seriously, on a slightly different subject, what has George done for America that everyone is so hyped about? Name one thing he has accomplished.
I have confidence in America again. There really is right and wrong and Bush is not afraid to say it.

You admire Chavez for kicking ass and Dubya is ten times a better man than Chavez will ever be.

And . . . of course, Bush has even the most sickening leftists saying they are now "real Christians." And, scrambling to somehow prove it. It is laughable but somewhat encouraging.
Of course, there is the complete destruction of both the economy and environment (the later he attempted to sacrafice for the sake of the former, ironically),
And if I believe that then there really is a Tooth Fairy.
. . . and our recent involvement in the never ending oil war.
Michael Moore has washed another mind.
But what about the fundamentalist issues he has sworn to? Abortion is still legal. Gays still have rights.
The reprobates on the left that enthroned both are dug into politics like a parasite on a dog.

The plutocratic assault on social security simply dropped off the face of the planet.


And yet social security is still going to die. Bush (and Clinton) tried. That is all they could do. Deaf ears are usually found on the left side.
Compare his puny reperotire to Hugo's. The immense difference is quite comical.


Hitler was an even better orator. Stalin and Mao too. "Socialists" one and all. Interesting huh?
Quote:
Ah but the GOP has a healthy and vibrant and more importantly a free opposition party filled with members not in prisons. Though I know one Massachusetts Democrat senator that deserves to be.
And about fifty Republican politicians as well. Seriously, what is the current count? There's Libby, Delay, Frist, Bush, Cheney......... tell you what, we'll just make it simple and condemn them all.
In typical commie kangaroo court style. Of course, with no due process.

So typical.

And yet Massachusetts (of course) keeps reelecting Kennedy. And California leftists? Their soul was sold to communism a long time ago. And the state is dying "economically."

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Post #13

Post by The Persnickety Platypus »

They always evolve into totalitarian sociopaths. A rose by any other name is still a genocidal maniac. Chavez is the new color.
Chavez's programs: ARE they helping the country, or are they NOT?


This is the only matter you need worry yourself with. Your current opposition to him stems exclusively from his political affiliation. That is like me opposing a leader who stands for most of the things I believe in because he just so happens to be a Republican.

Not ALL Republicans are plutocratic advocates and environmental rapists, just as all extreme socialists do not choose their affiliation in hopes of abusing the power for personal gain.
No more, it's time to fight back.



Socialism-communism-genocide. Sounds so familiar.
You are greatly mistaken, my friend. The genocide was going on looooong before the Socialists came. Socialism was the retaliation to the oppression.
I don't particularly care whether Chavez's handling of opposition is Christianly or not. The beneficial effects of his regime are undeniable. Do you think he could have brought this about while sticking the democratic standard?



Sounds like a ringing endorsement of George W. Bush and Iraq! Now, we're getting somewhere.
That might be the case, if in fact the Iraq war actually had any beneficial effects. All that man-power could be devoted to helping those elsewhere who are in need (Hello, Africa?), rather than making even MORE enemies.
The Socialist revolution in America is long overdue. Hopefully the immense success in Venezuela will inspire the American lower class to start their own coup.

Let the blood flow? Well, well, well. I hope the poor have a lot of sponges if they try that sh-- in my country.
"That's right! Get back in the assembly line b*tches!"


Keeping the common man down. Now there's an American tradition!
And theb poor flood to the United States of America to attain the wealth they desire. It is called the "American dream."
It's called Capitalism- the legal right to screw over your fellow citizens. The Venezuelans know what it's like. Find me one who does not now scoff it. Although I should warn you, your chances are slim... most of them will be much to busy applying for their new jobs or picking up their monthly welfare checks.

I am afraid you have it backwards. Now look who is pouring in the borders! The rich fleeing fair socialist nations such as Hugo's.

Any benefits of Capitalism are overshadowed in properly organized economies. We don't need to compete when we can work together. Problem is, the wealthy don't seem to want to cooperate. God forbid we require them to give their money to people who actually need it.

This "American Dream" people speak of is still a (dim) reality, but at no fault of the free market society Americans pride themselves on. Bottom line is, America has resources. African countries and the like can adopt capitalism all they want, it's not going to do any good if they have no capital to invest. Kenya (most notably) has tried, curiously to no avail. Is this really a surprise?

The poor Afgan refugee can come in and make more in the US than he previously did simply because of the greater variety (and quantity) of businesses. There are actually things to do here. Ever hear of lumber, agricultural, or tourism industries in Afganistan? Of course not, there is just oil.

When the English, Spanish, and French landed in America they were met with a sprawling land abundant in natural resources. A great country was left to form in their wake. But imagine if they had landed on a desert wasteland. Do you honestly think America could have flourished under those conditions? All the founding fathers would have had to do is establish the free market that exists today and the country would be able to make the same economic strides? What would our exports be? Sand and tumbleweed? Yeah, those precious commodities garner a great demand in the global market.

Such is the situation in countries like Venezuela. There is oil. That's it. Only so many people are needed to work the refineries. The rest are left to dabble in the highly promising sand and tumbleweed trade. Hooray.

The scenarios in countries such as South Korea and Tiawan can be easily duplicated in Venezuela. Both are great capitalist powerhouses, but only achieved that status through vast re-distribution. The US poured BILLIONS of dollars in to the mentioned nations following the Korean War. Without this aid they had no hope of developing. Presumably, such is the stragety of Chavez. You don't just tell people to get off their lazy asses and work. You give them something to work with.

Venezuela's economy is expected to grow up to 9% in 2006. They sure as crap have not accomplished this by mooching up to the rich. Interestingly, the US ecomomy has historically done considerably worse under REPUBLICAN legislation. Could the "tax breaks for the rich" philosophy have something to do with this?

Right-Wingers escape condemnation from their treatment of the working man by generalizing all lower class citizens as good-for-nothing crackheads too lazy to pick up a pencil. They claim that ANYONE with the proper drive can succeed in a Capitalist society. NEWSFLASH: College educations require money. Starting a business requires money. And believe it or not, not everyone's daddy is Bill Gates.

Capitalism requires capital.
I wish you would. Your observations are likely to be the same as every single missionary who has visited since 1998.



Communist missionaries?
No, more like the missionary reports I posted. I am sure I could find many more for you if you like. It might be interesting to see how long you will continue to deny the wonderful widespread effects of Chavez's system.

On another note, I found this report rather interesting.
http://www.globalgoodnews.com/world-new ... =Venezuela

Turns out Venezuela actually is taking steps in giving poor US citizens cheapened oil. I thought it was just a taunt against Washington. Also note that they are giving economic aid to surrounding South American countries.
Of course, there is the complete destruction of both the economy and environment (the later he attempted to sacrafice for the sake of the former, ironically),



And if I believe that then there really is a Tooth Fairy.
Is there anything you will believe?

Who specifically stated that an increase in fuel emissions standards would "cripple the economy" (even despite studies showing the contrary)? Who outright rejected the Kyoto Protocol in fear that it's regulations would "cripple the economy"?

If George is so knowledgable on economic matters, why are we trillions more in debt?
. . . and our recent involvement in the never ending oil war.



Michael Moore has washed another mind.
I have never watched Farhenhite 9/11. I don't need to, the corruption is conspicuous enough all ready.

The one country we decide to "help" just happens to harbor half the world's oil reserves? Please, who are they kidding?




But really, let's get back to the topic at hand. I have been wondering, why don't you let the Venezuelans pick what they want? What, is 70-90% not a mandate enough for you? The common populace is just "brainwashed"? What is it about so many Americans that gives them the immpression that they know what is best for everyone? Here we are, three thousand miles from Venezuela, and you think you know more about the country than the very citizens LIVING THERE do. Never fails to amaze me.

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Post #14

Post by 1John2_26 »

But really, let's get back to the topic at hand. I have been wondering, why don't you let the Venezuelans pick what they want? What, is 70-90% not a mandate enough for you? The common populace is just "brainwashed"? What is it about so many Americans that gives them the immpression that they know what is best for everyone? Here we are, three thousand miles from Venezuela, and you think you know more about the country than the very citizens LIVING THERE do. Never fails to amaze me.
The communists of the Soviet Union promised the same crap to the poor. The poor are led just as easy by commies as they are by capitalists.

I seriously couldn't care less about sheeple following some sociopath with a handout of extra grass. Chavez will evolve into what all power mongers evolove into. A murderous bastard keeping power like all the other communists before him. What is funny about this guy is that he is trying his mind warp in Chicago. How appropriate is that? Jesse jackson has been peddling socialism so hard for so long. Of course though, after his children "get there's."

Bush will be gone in January '09. Chavez will just beginning his totalitarian horror on the poor that bought communist lies. It is their right to be led to their misery.

I'll still be putting money into my PRIVATE IRA one little paycheck at a time, while the socialists in latin countries work for a buck an hour whiling dreaming about life in the North!

Give ME liberty or give me liberty. There is no other choice for a man that wants to be free. Otherwise known as an "American" from the United States.

I'll bet not one leftist/liberal-socialist American from the United States moves to Venezuela. The hypocrisy of an American socialist is pungent you can smell it through the LCD screen.

Viva la revolution! No wait . . . hold on a sec.

Yeah, yeah! I'll have the latte with extra cocoa and two shots of whip cream !!!!

Mmmmmm . . . . Now where was I?

Oh yeah.

Viva la revolution!

In Vallejo!!!!

What?

I meant Venezuela.

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Post #15

Post by The Persnickety Platypus »

The communists of the Soviet Union promised the same crap to the poor.
And never even pretended to fufill that promise. Chavez has been fulfilling his promise for the past eight years. Perhaps it is time to hold him to a higher standard, you think?
The poor are led just as easy by commies as they are by capitalists.
So why should they listen to the capitalists instead?
I seriously couldn't care less about sheeple following some sociopath with a handout of extra grass. Chavez will evolve into what all power mongers evolove into. A murderous bastard keeping power like all the other communists before him.

You know, I had a relative who went crazy one day and set fire to a large part of Chicago. Should they put me in the insane ward, out of fear of my family's questionable past?

Over half of my uncles and grandparents were/are truck drivers. Would you be willing to assert that I intend to be one? Are you willing to make this case with absolutely no evidence aside from mere family history? What if I was in college studying for a law degree? Would you still argue that I will eventually revert to the life of a trucker?

I come from a long lineage of staunch conservatives. My views, as you can see first hand, are as liberal as they come. Would you still label me a conservative, out of respect for my creed's Republican past?

Do you see what I mean? This argument is completely inane. Not once have you actually addressed the man in question, your claims lie exclusively in the actions of a few past party affiliates. Hugo Chavez has gone to great lengths to make Venezuela's social classes more equal. He has single handedly brought nearly half the nation out of poverty. That is just plain fact. Clamp your hands over your ears all you want, it is not going to change the reality of the situation. You are judging nothing more than the man's mere political affiliation.

When Chavez starts abusing his power and imposing China-esque economic ruin, THEN you can start complaining. Until then, one can only assume you have something against the poor.
Chavez will just beginning his totalitarian horror on the poor that bought communist lies.
Yeah, that's what they said in 98'.
I'll bet not one leftist/liberal-socialist American from the United States moves to Venezuela. The hypocrisy of an American socialist is pungent you can smell it through the LCD screen.
Back to your old tactic, eh? Questioning the intentions of those who provide the undeniable evidence?

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Post #16

Post by 1John2_26 »

Quote:
The communists of the Soviet Union promised the same crap to the poor.

And never even pretended to fufill that promise. Chavez has been fulfilling his promise for the past eight years. Perhaps it is time to hold him to a higher standard, you think?
How about a free press and a real opposition party representative government?

Quote:
The poor are led just as easy by commies as they are by capitalists.

So why should they listen to the capitalists instead?
Anyone can better their lives to live their dreams in capitalism. In commie countries you get a Yugo and squalid one room flat to share with your extended family. Anyone rushing to Cuba?

Little Havana Florida maybe.
Quote:
I seriously couldn't care less about sheeple following some sociopath with a handout of extra grass. Chavez will evolve into what all power mongers evolove into. A murderous bastard keeping power like all the other communists before him.
You know, I had a relative who went crazy one day and set fire to a large part of Chicago. Should they put me in the insane ward, out of fear of my family's questionable past?


Hitsory for those that read it, has condemned communism 100%. It is a sickness that inflicts totalitarian madmen.

I'll bet Chavez eats well and lives even better than his commrades.
Over half of my uncles and grandparents were/are truck drivers. Would you be willing to assert that I intend to be one? Are you willing to make this case with absolutely no evidence aside from mere family history? What if I was in college studying for a law degree? Would you still argue that I will eventually revert to the life of a trucker?


In free America you can become anything. In commie countries the government tells you.
I come from a long lineage of staunch conservatives. My views, as you can see first hand, are as liberal as they come. Would you still label me a conservative, out of respect for my creed's Republican past?
You know the label I would apply accurately to you.
Do you see what I mean? This argument is completely inane. Not once have you actually addressed the man in question, your claims lie exclusively in the actions of a few past party affiliates.
History is a good teacher.
Hugo Chavez has gone to great lengths to make Venezuela's social classes more equal. He has single handedly brought nearly half the nation out of poverty. That is just plain fact. Clamp your hands over your ears all you want, it is not going to change the reality of the situation. You are judging nothing more than the man's mere political affiliation.
Communism is anti-freedom and totalitarian. That is a fact. Free press in Venezuala? Gimme a break.
When Chavez starts abusing his power and imposing China-esque economic ruin, THEN you can start complaining. Until then, one can only assume you have something against the poor.
He cannot be removed. Until he can be then he is a despot with messianic delusions. A future tyrant forming.
Quote:
Chavez will just beginning his totalitarian horror on the poor that bought communist lies.

Yeah, that's what they said in 98'.
People are fleeing the country. Mexicans are certainly not headed south. Why I wonder?
Quote:
I'll bet not one leftist/liberal-socialist American from the United States moves to Venezuela. The hypocrisy of an American socialist is pungent you can smell it through the LCD screen.
Back to your old tactic, eh? Questioning the intentions of those who provide the undeniable evidence?
Communism and communists have done nothing to better the world, Chavez will follow the evolution without doubt.

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Post #17

Post by McCulloch »

How many communist regimes have fallen due to external pressure and millitary threats? How many communist regimes have strengthened their hold over their people using the excuse of an external threat?
The former Soviet Union would not have collapsed the way it did without Detente and Glasnost. Stalin could not have done what he did without the threats from the west. Cuba would not have found communism attractive without the negative impact of American imperialism. Castro would find his hold on power much weaker without the American boycott, the Bay of Pigs and Gitmo.
1John2_26 wrote:... Chavez will evolve into what all power mongers evolove into. A murderous bastard keeping power like all the other communists before him.
If that is so, then he will not be able to hold on to power for very long, unless he finds a scapegoat, an enemy, a threat. Something the reactionary US right wing is always willing to provide.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

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Post #18

Post by 1John2_26 »

How many communist regimes have fallen due to external pressure and millitary threats? How many communist regimes have strengthened their hold over their people using the excuse of an external threat?
The former Soviet Union would not have collapsed the way it did without Detente and Glasnost. Stalin could not have done what he did without the threats from the west. Cuba would not have found communism attractive without the negative impact of American imperialism. Castro would find his hold on power much weaker without the American boycott, the Bay of Pigs and Gitmo.

1John2_26 wrote:
... Chavez will evolve into what all power mongers evolove into. A murderous bastard keeping power like all the other communists before him.
If that is so, then he will not be able to hold on to power for very long, unless he finds a scapegoat, an enemy, a threat. Something the reactionary US right wing is always willing to provide.
What I notice is two things. "The Left" in America truly are communists. No need to hide that fact any more.

Republicans brought down Russian communism with peaceful free enterprise.

I'm done with this topic of leftists supporting, and "a" conservative opposing, a communist leader in Venezuela. I have no doubt that the worthlessness and violence of communism will proliferate under this Chavez dictator.

Ignoring cancer though, never is a good thing.

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Post #19

Post by The Persnickety Platypus »

How about a free press and a real opposition party representative government?
How about not?

Apparently you are still a bit unclear just who the "opposition party" is. The only opposition Chavez possibly garners (being that his system is a benefit to everyone else) is the wealthy elite, who would love nothing more than to re-claim their oppressive throne. The government is not going to give them that chance.

Kind of like how the US government would never give the Nazi party a chance at power.
Anyone can better their lives to live their dreams in capitalism.
Of course. Assuming they have capital. Which many do not.

Do you see the Kenyan's fufilling their dreams under capitalism? Of course not. Any guess as to why this is?
In commie countries you get a Yugo and squalid one room flat to share with your extended family. Anyone rushing to Cuba?
Anyone rushing to Kenya?

Your generalizations just do not work. Sure, it's easy for any of us to bash socialism, here in our resource inriched economic oasis, where the prospective areas of business are endless. But look at it from another nations point of view. What does Venezuela have? Oil. What does Kenya have? A few lions. Very limited opportunities, and only so many people needed to work in each.

As you can see, what works here will not necissarily work elsewhere. Venezuela and Africa are living examples.

Capitalism requires capital. Very simple concept.
People are fleeing the country.
Certainly. What sort of people?

The rich.

See, they won't be required to sacrifice part of their precious fortune to help poor dying citizens in America. Our country guarantees the freedom to be a selfless bastard.

"Sweet laaaaaaand of liiiiiiiiiiiiberty..........."
You know the label I would apply accurately to you.
"Bobblehead", perhaps? Come on Al, take off your mask.

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The Persnickety Platypus
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Post #20

Post by The Persnickety Platypus »

Ignoring cancer though, never is a good thing.
Niether is cutting it out when it does not exist.

The cancer spore you see may just be a group of antibodies ridding the body of a few rich parasites. Remember to take off your "leftist conspiracies are everywhere!" glasses before examining the patient. Also, when (and if) you do take them off, try not to squint. I know this blocks out the evidence proving your assumption wrong, but remember, it's not about being right, it's about the welfare of the patient. We don't want to falsely diagnose him with cancer, that would allow the rich parasites to continue hoarding all his much needed nutrients and bodily fluids.

Wow, that was a fun analogy.
What I notice is two things.
Well, at least you notice something. Now you should work on not ignoring the rest.

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