Where does the doctrine of Free Will come from?

[Zzyzx]

.
Where does the doctrine of Free Will come from?

Does the Bible state that man has a Free Will? If so, WHERE is that term used?

If not from the Bible, where did 'Free Will' doctrine come from?

Is 'Free Will' the teaching of MAN (and not 'God')?

[1213]

Dogs, cats, parrots, gerbils are free to want whatever they want. That must mean that 'God intended them to have free will'. Right?

Is there any proof that animals have a will?

Freedom to reject the gods appears to be a human characteristic that does not apply to any one 'god'. Thousands of proposed 'gods' are rejected. Does that mean the 'gods' involved gave humans that ability?

At least it means God didnt want people not to have free will.

[1213]

If God didn't create us, if in fact the entire concept of God is simply a figment of the imagination, we would have free will naturally, wouldn't we! So you have created the concept of God in your imagination, and then declared that God, in his mercy, has given us something that would be our birthright if no God had ever existed to begin with. And thus have you established that God is real, praise the lord.

The idea of free will is usually brought when atheist complain about all evil things in this world. Free will is the explanation why Godless things are possible. That is the reason why Christians speak about free will. And obviously, if one believes God created people, He then also gave the free will that people have. But if you dont believe in God, then you surely have some other reason for the existence of free will. This is not actually about proving God, just explaining why we speak about free will.

[ttruscott]

Excellent post. The implicit promise of free will is not found in the Bible though, is it!

No, but I find the premise of our free will to be implicit in the Bible.

[Tired of the Nonsense]

If God didn't create us, if in fact the entire concept of God is simply a figment of the imagination, we would have free will naturally, wouldn't we! So you have created the concept of God in your imagination, and then declared that God, in his mercy, has given us something that would be our birthright if no God had ever existed to begin with. And thus have you established that God is real, praise the lord.

The idea of free will is usually brought when atheist complain about all evil things in this world. Free will is the explanation why Godless things are possible. That is the reason why Christians speak about free will. And obviously, if one believes God created people, He then also gave the free will that people have. But if you dont believe in God, then you surely have some other reason for the existence of free will. This is not actually about proving God, just explaining why we speak about free will.

People do cruel things to each other. This is the basis for the concept of evil. Evil does not actually exist, because it is not a physical force. So I certainly do not blame a non existent God for the fact that humans are capable of great cruelty towards each other.
I personally feel that if we took positive steps to teach good citizenship to our children when they are young, a concept designed around the golden rule, society would be the better for it. But I am also realistic enough to recognize that there will always be that small percentage that is attracted to being antisocial and cruel. The only thing that can be done with these sorts of people is identify them and isolate them.

[Tired of the Nonsense]

Excellent post. The implicit promise of free will is not found in the Bible though, is it!

No, but I find the premise of our free will to be implicit in the Bible.

You find that free will seems to be a product of your everyday life. If the God of the Bible exists, is omnipotent, and created you and all humans with a plan in mind, then the concept of complete free will is a fallacy. At best you may have a small amount of wiggle room. But an omnipotent Being WILL achieve the results He intends to achieve. We are all just along for the ride.

[ttruscott]

Excellent post. The implicit promise of free will is not found in the Bible though, is it!

No, but I find the premise of our free will to be implicit in the Bible.

You find that free will seems to be a product of your everyday life.

False - just yesterday I mentioned to you that I do not accept that we have free will on earth.

If the God of the Bible exists, is omnipotent, and created you and all humans with a plan in mind, then the concept of complete free will is a fallacy.

As mentioned before this is illogical since it doesn't include the possibility that HIS plan for our creation was to give us a free will so we could choose by our own choice, not HIS, what our relationship with HIM would be. I know this is your favourite bug-bear to sic on unsuspecting Christians but it just doesn't hold up since it unnecessarily restricts HIS ability to be omnipotent, not able to do what we think HE did.

At best you may have a small amount of wiggle room. But an omnipotent Being WILL achieve the results He intends to achieve. We are all just along for the ride.

HE did indeed get the exact results HE wanted from our creation which was for each of us to make up our own minds about HIS claims to be our GOD and to decide our relationship with HIM without being coerced by anything in our creation to chose one way or the other. This was the result HE wanted to achieve and this was indeed achieved, setting the rest of our existence into motion based upon the natural and legal consequences of our choices.

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to post 16 by ttruscott]

False - just yesterday I mentioned to you that I do not accept that we have free will on earth.

We are all limited by the physical circumstances of the reality we were born into of course. Otherwise, what choices do you notice that you can't make, here on earth?

As mentioned before this is illogical since it doesn't include the possibility that HIS plan for our creation was to give us a free will so we could choose by our own choice, not HIS, what our relationship with HIM would be. I know this is your favourite bug-bear to sic on unsuspecting Christians but it just doesn't hold up since it unnecessarily restricts HIS ability to be omnipotent, not able to do what we think HE did.

Genesis 6:
[5] And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
[6] And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
[7] And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

THE BIBLE ITSELF restricts God's ability to be omnipotent, by indicating that He fails to achieve his intentions.

HE did indeed get the exact results HE wanted from our creation which was for each of us to make up our own minds about HIS claims to be our GOD and to decide our relationship with HIM without being coerced by anything in our creation to chose one way or the other. This was the result HE wanted to achieve and this was indeed achieved, setting the rest of our existence into motion based upon the natural and legal consequences of our choices.

And then He wiped everything out and tried again when the exact results He intended were not the exact results He got.

[Willum]

So no scripture, only Apologists arguments declaiming freewill.

How about the converse, scripture about God controlling everything, and orchestrating the evil of wicked men?

Anyone care to take looksie for those kinds of things.

[Kenisaw]

Dogs, cats, parrots, gerbils are free to want whatever they want. That must mean that 'God intended them to have free will'. Right?

Is there any proof that animals have a will?

Yes*. And they can reason too. Humans are not as special as we think we are when it comes to mental ability.

*I asterik this because I am not personally convinced that there is actually such a thing as free will. The latest research on the brain suggests we are statistical iterative computers mentally...