You MUST be born again

[Checkpoint]

You MUST be born again".

That is a very emphatic statement, made to Nicodemus, a Jewish teacher.

Here now is the whole passage, from John 3:

1 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council.
2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit b gives birth to spirit.

7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.
8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things?
11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony.
12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?

An interesting exchange, and an interesting subject.

How do you understand what Jesus taught in these verses?

What do you say being born again, or being born of the Spirit, actually is?

Is this for every follower of Jesus, or only for some believers?

Does it take place in this life, or in the one to come, or both?

Why is it so important?

Could it be similar to, or the result of, repentance and/or saving faith?

How would you explain verse 8?

[Checkpoint]

Re: This Generation Will Not Pass Away:

Out of curiosity, why did you entitle this thread "This Generation Will Not Pass Away"?

Good question.

I didn't!!

This thread is the only one I have created since the site update in June.

Things have changed, and I have not yet figured out how to make a new thread post that has both a title and content, so I am only able to do one or the other, so far.

In this case I thought it was doing both. So I posted it, only to find that somehow this misleading, unwanted, unchosen heading, had appeared on top.

I have now succeeded in taking it's appearance as a thread out, and replacing it with what I had always meant it to be.

I am still wondering, "what am I doing wrong, what have I missed?
"




JW

[myth-one.com]

RE: You must be born again.


Jesus states that no man can see the kingdom of God without being born again of the Spirit:

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. (John 3:3)

Two type of bodies are defined in the scriptures:

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (I Corinthians 15:44)

So there are two body types, physical and spiritual and they are different. Each of these body types requires a separate and unique birth:

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (John 3:6)

Of all the animals, only man can be born again:

Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. (John 3:3)

So the first step to becoming a member of the Kingdom of God is to be born as a man or woman and not some other animal. This is our first birth.

However, man cannot enter the Kingdom of God in his present flesh and blood body:

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. (I Corinthians 15:50)

The scriptures state that man must be born again of the Spirit to enter the Kingdom of God.

What type of birth must this second birth obviously be?

There are two body types.
Man is born initially as a physical flesh and blood body.
But flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

Therefore, man must be born again of the Spirit as a spirit to enter the everlasting spiritual kingdom of God.

It is so logically simple!

We will receive our reward of being born again into the Kingdom of God at or after the Second Coming.

Thus to date, no man has been born again of the Spirit.

Man is born initially as a mortal physical bodied being into the physical world.

The reward of the saved is everlasting life.

But being mortal, no man has everlasting life!

Thus, man must be born again as an immortal spirit to enter the everlasting Kingdom of God!

That will be the reward of the saved.

Upon being born again of the Spirit, Christians will have become equal unto the angels:

Neither can they die any more, for they are equal unto the angels... (Luke 20:36).

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #12]

The scriptures state that man must be born again of the Spirit to enter the Kingdom of God.

What type of birth must this second birth obviously be?

Just what it says. That is, born of the Spirit, born of God. That which is born of the Spirit is spirit, not body, in this present life.



John 1:

12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—
13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #12]

The scriptures state that man must be born again of the Spirit to enter the Kingdom of God.

What type of birth must this second birth obviously be?

Just what it says. That is, born of the Spirit, born of God. That which is born of the Spirit is spirit, not body, in this present life.

John 1:

12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—
13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

All we have in this present life is a human physical body -- which will perish.

As John 1:12 states, Christians are given the right to become children of God!

We are made joint-heirs with Jesus -- meaning that our names are written in the Book of Life:

And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. Romans 8:17

Our inheritance will be everlasting life:

And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive a hundred-fold, and shall inherit (future tense) eternal life. (Matthew 19:29)

Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ. (Colossians 3:24)

The New Testament will be probated upon the Second Coming of Christ at the resurrection:

And behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me... (Revelation 22:12)

Once believers are born again of the Spirit, we will be spiritual bodied beings.

Spiritual bodied beings have no need to also have a physical body.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #15]

All we have in this present life is a human physical body -- which will perish.

No, we have far more than a body. We have a spirit, and it is that spiriit that must be born from above.

Jesus was not talking about our resurrection body, as Paul was, but about our spirit.

"That which is born of the Spirit is spirit".

Proverbs 20:27

The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching
all the inward parts of the heart.

1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

[myth-one.com]

All we have in this present life is a human physical body -- which will perish.

No, we have far more than a body. We have a spirit, and it is that spiriit that must be born from above.

You can claim all the spirit you want, but you are not a spiritual bodied being. You are flesh and blood.

The scriptures define two type of bodies -- natural and spiritual.

You cannot have both at the same time.

Which one are you?

====================================================

1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.


You need to read the entire chapter.

In it, Peter writes that believers are "begotten unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead."

That hope is "to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away." (That inheritance is being born again of the Spirit into everlasting spiritual life.)

This inheritance is "reserved in heaven for you."

And it will be "revealed in the last time."

That is, you do not have it now.

In First Peter 1:23, Peter is talking about how we will receive our inheritance.

Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

===================================================

Here is how Paul describes the dead bodies of believers being born again at the resurrection in First Corinthians:

So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.

This scripture is not complicated.

The Christian body that is sown is corruptible, dishonored, weak, and a natural body. This is the physical body which is buried like a seed, or sown, when we die.

At the resurrection, Christians are raised up as incorruptible, glorified, powerful, spiritual bodies. This is exactly what the above verses state!
================================================

So there are two type of bodies and they do not mix.

The physical or natural body comes first and the spiritual birth comes last for the saved.

[Checkpoint]

All we have in this present life is a human physical body -- which will perish.

No, we have far more than a body. We have a spirit, and it is that spiriit that must be born from above.

You can claim all the spirit you want, but you are not a spiritual bodied being. You are flesh and blood.

The scriptures define two type of bodies -- natural and spiritual.

You cannot have both at the same time.

Which one are you?

As I said, Jesus was not talking about two bodies, but about two births. "that which is born of the Spirit is spirit, which must happen in this life. It is by this we become heirs in the present so we inherit in the life to come, when we are resurrected.

What is born is not a body, but a person, a living soul comprising a body and a spirit(James 2:26).

====================================================

1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.


You need to read the entire chapter.

In it, Peter writes that believers are "begotten unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead."

That hope is "to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away." (That inheritance is being born again of the Spirit into everlasting spiritual life.)

This inheritance is "reserved in heaven for you."

And it will be "revealed in the last time."

That is, you do not have it now.

In First Peter 1:23, Peter is talking about how we will receive our inheritance.

Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Yes, it is good to read it all, as this brings balance because it helps us to better see things; as we will then take account of the context.

===================================================

Here is how Paul describes the dead bodies of believers being born again at the resurrection in First Corinthians:

So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.

This scripture is not complicated.

The Christian body that is sown is corruptible, dishonored, weak, and a natural body. This is the physical body which is buried like a seed, or sown, when we die.

At the resurrection, Christians are raised up as incorruptible, glorified, powerful, spiritual bodies. This is exactly what the above verses state!

Right, but it is not what Jesus meant when he told Nicodemus "You must be born again", but rather what being born again now ensures all that happening for us then.
================================================

So there are two type of bodies and they do not mix.

The physical or natural body comes first and the spiritual birth comes last for the saved.

What comes last is the spiritual body, not the spiritual birth, which comes second.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to PinSeeker in post #4]

You have taken the time and put in the effort to answer all of my first post questions.

This post is to express my appreciation of this.

And to highlight this interesting answer you gave to this particular question.

Checkpoint wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:22 am

Could it be similar to, or the result of, repentance and/or saving faith?

Yes, in a way, but of the three (being born again, saving faith, and repentance) -- well, I'll say it this way: The first two (spiritual birth, the gift of faith) are works of God (John 3, Ephesians 2), while the third (repentance) is a work of the believer which inevitably results from the first two. Maybe an even better way of saying it is that the first two are direct works of God, while the third is an indirect work of God. After all, God's kindness that leads us to repentance (Romans 2:4), and it is God Who works in us by His Spirit so that we will and work for His good pleasure (Philippians 2:13). It's all a great mystery, not in the sense that it can't be understood conceptually but that God would do things the way He does, having such great mercy and compassion on us, even though we deserve quite the opposite... and also as I said above, in that, again, we know that God does these things, but we can't explain how He does them. At any rate, this is truly amazing grace,

Grace and peace to you.

[myth-one.com]

What comes last is the spiritual body, not the spiritual birth, which comes second.

The spiritual birth produces the spiritual body.

At your birth, you entered into the natural, physical, flesh and blood, kingdom of mankind; and you had absolutely no choice in that matter.

You could not choose your parents, location of your birth, your race, your faith, etc, etc, etc . . .

However, every human will choose whether or not they will be born again of the Spirit into the Kingdom of God!

This real act of being born again into the everlasting spiritual world, and a comparison of natural versus spiritual bodies is found in First Corinthians:

It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. (I Corinthians 15:44-50)

The first man Adam was made a living soul, or being, because he was part of the animal kingdom. That is, the first body any human has is that of a living, breathing being. The last Adam will be made a quickening spirit since he will live in the Kingdom of God. That is, the last body any former human can have will be an eternal spiritual body. Notice that "Adam" is identified as a "man" only when he is made as a living soul or being. When "made a quickening spirit" the entity is called only Adam. This is significant because at this point, Adam is no longer a man, or human being. The last Adam is made a quickening spirit which lives forever.

Of course, any human's name can be substituted in the place of Adam. Flesh and blood, such as man, cannot inherit the Kingdom of God; thus one must be born again as a spirit.

Consider this sentence from the above verses, "Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual."

The answer is that once spiritual bodies are created, it's a done deal! They cannot be terminated. They are immortal! Therefore, that which is natural comes first, a human body.

That human being may or may not inherit a spiritual body based on his or her free will informed choice regarding Jesus.

==================================================


------------ Here is the Human Life Plan According to the Scriptures ------------

• Each human is born as a mortal being into the kingdom of man. This birth is of water.
  
  
  
• If a human accepts Jesus Christ as his Savior at anytime while that human is living, that human becomes an heir to eternal life.
  
  
  
• At the Second Coming, the heirs to eternal life will receive their inheritance when born again as spiritual beings which live forever. This is a spiritual birth into the Kingdom of God.
  
  
  
• Nonbelievers will be resurrected a thousand years after the Second Coming as humans once again. Following their judgment, those humans whose names are written in the Book of Life will be born again of the Spirit as spiritual beings into the Kingdom of God.
  
  Those whose names are not written in the Book of Life following their judgment will be cast into the lake of fire and suffer their second and permanent physical death. Since they were resurrected as physical bodies and not as spiritual bodies, they are not saved from the quick second death in the lake of fire. They will never live again. It will be as if they never existed.
  
  
  
• All humans are now dead at this point. Those born again as spiritual bodies are no longer humans. They are spiritual children of God who will now rule and maintain the earth under their Lord and Savior, The Word, forever and ever.

The great mystery has been solved!

[Checkpoint]

You have taken the time and put in the effort to answer all of my first post questions.

This post is to express my appreciation to you of this response.

And to highlight the interesting answer you gave to a particular question.

You will find this below the text of your post.

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

• What do you say being born again, or being born of the Spirit, actually is? It is the adoption of humans as sons of God to join His spirit family in heaven.

• Is this for every follower of Jesus, or only for some believers?It is only for some believers.

• Does it take place in this life, or in the one to come, or both?It takes place in this life.

• Why is it so important? Because It is part of God's purpose for vindicating His holy name ( see Mat 6:9, 10) .

• Could it be similar to, or the result of, repentance and/or saving faith?Not directly, no. Jesus did not connect being born again to repentance or even directly to faith but rather to Gods will.

• How would you explain verse 8?Unlike a physical birth which is dependent of predictable biological constraints, spiritual adoption is invisible to man and dictated only by God's will and purpose.

JEHOVAHS WITNESS

• Is this for every follower of Jesus, or only for some believers?
  
  It is only for some believers.

This is an interesting answer because it is not the usual one.

It has been discussed in the past, but I would like to explore it a little more.

Is this ok for you?

Time has run out, so I will post this now, and await your reply.
Thanks.


To learn more please go to other posts related to...

HEAVEN ,


BORN AGAIN and ... THE 144, 000[/quote]
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