The seed, Holy Spirit and Mary

[placebofactor]

Is the Son of God himself the seed that was implanted by the Holy Spirit into Mary’s womb? By the decree of the Father, and by the Son's own power, the Son became the seed that the Holy Spirit implanted in Mary's womb.

Since the Son of God is the Lamb slain before the foundation of the earth was laid, it means He existed in eternity before time as we know it. Therefore, Jesus had no beginning? This possibility harmonizes beautifully with both prophetic typology and high Christology. This possibility is weaving together seed, Spirit, and sacrifice into a framework that affirms the Son’s eternal nature while preserving his incarnational mystery.

If the Son himself is the seed implanted by the Holy Spirit into Mary’s womb, then He is not merely the product of conception, but the pre-existent divine person who entered creation.

The Holy Spirit did not create the Son in Mary; He transferred or manifested the eternal Son into human flesh. This preserves the eternality of the Son while affirming the virgin birth and incarnation, echoing John 1:14: “The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.”

The Word didn’t begin in Mary, He entered her.

Revelation 13:8 calls Jesus “The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” This implies that the Son’s sacrificial identity was established in eternity, not merely in time. In prophetic terms, the cross was not a reaction; it was a pre-temporal decree, part of God’s eternal counsel. So, if the Son was already the Lamb before creation, then He existed before time, before matter, before history.

So, Jesus, as the Son of God, has no beginning. His humanity began in time, but his personhood did not. He is the eternal Son who became flesh, not a man who became divine. Seed = Word = Son: The seed implanted is the eternal Word, not a created embryo.

The Holy Spirit was the Divine Midwife: The Holy Spirit doesn’t create the Son but facilitates his entry into flesh. Mary was the earthly vessel: She received the eternal seed, fulfilling Isaiah 7:14, “Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.”

So, the Son Himself is the Seed implanted by the Holy Spirit; this model affirms Jesus' eternal preexistence:

John 1:1–3: “In the beginning was the Word… and the Word was God.”
Colossians 1:17: “He is before all things.”
Revelation 13:8: “The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.”

These three verses confirm that the Son existed before creation, before time, and before his human birth. He is not created, but eternally begotten.
Incarnation Through the Spirit

Luke 1:35: “The Holy Spirit will come upon you… therefore, the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.”
Matthew 1:20: “What is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.” This shows that the Holy Spirit did not create a new being but implanted the eternal Son into Mary’s womb. The Son took on flesh, not a new identity.

These passages affirm that Christ is the seed, not just metaphorically, but spiritually and prophetically. He is the fulfillment of the seed promise in Genesis 3:15.
This model fits best, preserving the eternality of the Son, his Trinitarian role: The Father begets, the Spirit implants, the Son incarnates. It honors the prophetic typology: the seed of the woman is the eternal Son, not a created embryo, thus avoiding the pitfalls of Arianism (created Son) and modalism (no distinction of persons).

This model is a powerhouse against the “Counterfeit Prophecy” and “Twin Thefts” framework. It exposes how false doctrines deny the Son’s eternal identity, reduce the incarnation to mere biology, and confuse creation with begetting. This model gives us a scripturally anchored, Spirit-led foundation for teaching the mystery of Christ with clarity and apologetic force.

[Capbook]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #1]

Is the Son of God himself the seed that was implanted by the Holy Spirit into Mary’s womb? By the decree of the Father, and by the Son's own power, the Son became the seed that the Holy Spirit implanted in Mary's womb.

The Son was only God’s vessel (John 14:10-11) in coming in the flesh. The power that was manifested in the Son, a human like us, was the Father himself.

Based on your logic of John 14:10,11 that Jesus is the Almighty God the Father, as Jesus is in the Father and the Father in Him.
Applying same logic to verse 20, as Jesus is the Almighty God the Father in us, can we be the same also with God the Father?

John 14:20  At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 

[OneJack]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #1]

Is the Son of God himself the seed that was implanted by the Holy Spirit into Mary’s womb? By the decree of the Father, and by the Son's own power, the Son became the seed that the Holy Spirit implanted in Mary's womb.

The Son was only God’s vessel (John 14:10-11) in coming in the flesh. The power that was manifested in the Son, a human like us, was the Father himself.

Based on your logic of John 14:10,11 that Jesus is the Almighty God the Father, as Jesus is in the Father and the Father in Him.
Applying same logic to verse 20, as Jesus is the Almighty God the Father in us, can we be the same also with God the Father?

John 14:20  At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 

Defnitely NOT…. read the verse carefully to avoid misconception, please.

Note: Based on your logic of John 14:10,11 that Jesus is the Almighty God, the Father, ……as the Son, per se, is in the Father, and the Father is in him.

[placebofactor]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #1]

Is the Son of God himself the seed that was implanted by the Holy Spirit into Mary’s womb? By the decree of the Father, and by the Son's own power, the Son became the seed that the Holy Spirit implanted in Mary's womb.

The Son was only God’s vessel (John 14:10-11) in coming in the flesh. The power that was manifested in the Son, a human like us, was the Father himself.

Based on your logic of John 14:10,11 that Jesus is the Almighty God the Father, as Jesus is in the Father and the Father in Him.
Applying same logic to verse 20, as Jesus is the Almighty God the Father in us, can we be the same also with God the Father?

John 14:20  At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 

Defnitely NOT…. read the verse carefully to avoid misconception, please.

OneJack, “I appreciate your comment, but I think we’re working from two very different understandings of who the Son is. John 14:10–11 doesn’t teach that the Son is merely a vessel. It teaches the mutual indwelling of Father and Son—‘I am in the Father and the Father is in Me.’

Throughout Scripture, the Son is not presented as a passive human that the Father simply used, but as the eternal divine person who actively took on flesh, John 1:1, "The Word was with God, and the Word was God." Verse14, "And the Word was made flesh" And Philippians 2:6–7, "Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men." The Holy Spirit conceived a human nature in Mary, but the person who was conceived was the Son Himself.

So when I say the Son became the ‘seed’ implanted in Mary, I’m affirming the biblical teaching that the Incarnation was the Son’s own act, not merely the Father working through a human vessel. The Father, Son, and Spirit each have distinct roles, but the Son is fully divine and personally involved in His own incarnation.”

[OneJack]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #13]

OneJack, “I appreciate your comment, but I think we’re working from two very different understandings of who the Son is.

Likewise, appreciate your time and interaction, placebofactor. And you’re right, we’re governed by two schools of thought regarding the true identity of the Son of God, per se.

John 14:10–11 doesn’t teach that the Son is merely a vessel. It teaches the mutual indwelling of Father and Son—‘I am in the Father and the Father is in Me.’

The Son would not be indwelled by the Father [who is the Supreme Spirit Being] if the Son were not the physical vessel of God in the latter’s incarnation. The Son clarified that the Father, dwelling in him (Son), does His (Father) works, meaning the Father does His works through the actuations of the Son. The spirit gives life to a body. God provided no one with two spirits, even the Son of God, per se.

Throughout Scripture, the Son is not presented as a passive human that the Father simply used,

The Son himself declared:

“I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me”

connect this to

“Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works”

The Son of God, per se, cannot indwell a spirit; the spirit is the one who can indwell a physical body, even the body of the Son of God. Mutual indwelling of two spirits [in a physical body] is not within the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ.

but as the eternal divine person who actively took on flesh, John 1:1, "The Word was with God, and the Word was God." Verse14, "And the Word was made flesh"

The Lord Jesus revealed to us that there was nothing before anything and everything but Himself. He further told us that the real words He commanded to be written are the following:

In the beginning, God spoke …..

He told us that there was nothing but His words (the words He uttered). Also, He was the one who came in the flesh, and His name is Jesus, which Adam knew from the very beginning.

And Philippians 2:6–7, "Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men." The Holy Spirit conceived a human nature in Mary, but the person who was conceived was the Son Himself.

The phrase, ‘who being in the form of God,’ was the Son himself, whom the Father indwelled, and the actuations were all done by the Supreme Spirit Being indwelling in him - the Father. The Father, whose name is Jesus, took upon Him the form of a servant - the Son, per se - and was made in the likeness of men. The overshadowing of the Holy Spirit [one of the Spirits created by God] to Mary was done under the power of God, and the same gave way to the conceiving and birth of the Son of God.

So when I say the Son became the ‘seed’ implanted in Mary, I’m affirming the biblical teaching that the Incarnation was the Son’s own act, not merely the Father working through a human vessel.

Sorry, but you’re totally out of order, even if we base our discussion in the pages of the bible. The angel clearly said the following to Mary:

“The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.”

Notice that the actuation of Notice that the actuation of The Almighty God, through the Holy Ghost - the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee - is the root cause of Mary’s conception and giving birth to the holy thing, which shall be called the Son of God. The existence of the Son of God, as clearly uttered by the angel, will come [only] upon his birth from his surrogate mother, Mary.

The Father, Son, and Spirit each have distinct roles, but the Son is fully divine and personally involved in His own

Godlically speaking, your quote above is off the grid and is considered your honest opinion and sand castle.

Thus saith the Lord Jesus:

All of you who are listening, listen carefully! I am your Lord God. Who are you afraid of? I am the Almighty. Who are you intimidated by? Remember, when I am by your side, you have nothing to fear, nothing to worry about, because I will save you from any calamity if you trust in Me and regard Me as your salvation and eternal life. As your Lord, whom you alone will worship and none other, I am the one true God existing in heaven, earth, or universe. I created all things, I gave you life. Where will you go? If not to Me, you have nowhere else to go.


God is the Almighty. To Him, nothing is impossible. From Him comes all things and the life that all people possess. From Him also comes good and evil, light and darkness. No one can live in the world except through Him. It is Him who came in the flesh and will return on the judgement. He is the life and the death, the beginning and the end, the way, the truth, the salvation, the forgiveness, and He is everything.

There is only one God, but like people, if a person has a name like Jose, he may also have nicknames like Juseng or Use. Similarly, God has different names - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit - but He is still one Almighty God. He called Himself the Son when He became human to redeem people's sins, and He is called the Holy Spirit as a guide for people. Because some people have limited understanding, they don't believe that God is everywhere, so He gave Himself different names, but some people still think God is three.

[Capbook]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #1]

Is the Son of God himself the seed that was implanted by the Holy Spirit into Mary’s womb? By the decree of the Father, and by the Son's own power, the Son became the seed that the Holy Spirit implanted in Mary's womb.

The Son was only God’s vessel (John 14:10-11) in coming in the flesh. The power that was manifested in the Son, a human like us, was the Father himself.

Based on your logic of John 14:10,11 that Jesus is the Almighty God the Father, as Jesus is in the Father and the Father in Him.
Applying same logic to verse 20, as Jesus is the Almighty God the Father in us, can we be the same also with God the Father?

John 14:20  At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 

Defnitely NOT…. read the verse carefully to avoid misconception, please.

Note: Based on your logic of John 14:10,11 that Jesus is the Almighty God, the Father, ……as the Son, per se, is in the Father, and the Father is in him.

Isn't this statement "that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me" you based your interpretation that Jesus is the Almighty God the Father OneJack?

Joh 14:10  "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works. 
Joh 14:11  "Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves. 

[OneJack]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #1]

Is the Son of God himself the seed that was implanted by the Holy Spirit into Mary’s womb? By the decree of the Father, and by the Son's own power, the Son became the seed that the Holy Spirit implanted in Mary's womb.

The Son was only God’s vessel (John 14:10-11) in coming in the flesh. The power that was manifested in the Son, a human like us, was the Father himself.

Based on your logic of John 14:10,11 that Jesus is the Almighty God the Father, as Jesus is in the Father and the Father in Him.
Applying same logic to verse 20, as Jesus is the Almighty God the Father in us, can we be the same also with God the Father?

John 14:20  At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 

Defnitely NOT…. read the verse carefully to avoid misconception, please.

Note: Based on your logic of John 14:10,11 that Jesus is the Almighty God, the Father, ……as the Son, per se, is in the Father, and the Father is in him.

Isn't this statement "that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me" you based your interpretation that Jesus is the Almighty God the Father OneJack?

Joh 14:10  "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works. 
Joh 14:11  "Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves. 

This is your question, “Applying same logic to verse 20, as Jesus is the Almighty God the Father in us, can we be the same also with God the Father?”

Jesus is not indwelling in us based on verse 20, you may have misread it, haven’t you? Therefore, your logic doesn’t apply to anyone of us today.

[placebofactor]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #13]

OneJack, “I appreciate your comment, but I think we’re working from two very different understandings of who the Son is.

Likewise, appreciate your time and interaction, placebofactor. And you’re right, we’re governed by two schools of thought regarding the true identity of the Son of God, per se.

John 14:10–11 doesn’t teach that the Son is merely a vessel. It teaches the mutual indwelling of Father and Son—‘I am in the Father and the Father is in Me.’

The Son would not be indwelled by the Father [who is the Supreme Spirit Being] if the Son were not the physical vessel of God in the latter’s incarnation. The Son clarified that the Father, dwelling in him (Son), does His (Father) works, meaning the Father does His works through the actuations of the Son. The spirit gives life to a body. God provided no one with two spirits, even the Son of God, per se.

Throughout Scripture, the Son is not presented as a passive human that the Father simply used,

The Son himself declared:

“I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me”

connect this to

“Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works”

The Son of God, per se, cannot indwell a spirit; the spirit is the one who can indwell a physical body, even the body of the Son of God. Mutual indwelling of two spirits [in a physical body] is not within the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ.

but as the eternal divine person who actively took on flesh, John 1:1, "The Word was with God, and the Word was God." Verse14, "And the Word was made flesh"

The Lord Jesus revealed to us that there was nothing before anything and everything but Himself. He further told us that the real words He commanded to be written are the following:

In the beginning, God spoke …..

He told us that there was nothing but His words (the words He uttered). Also, He was the one who came in the flesh, and His name is Jesus, which Adam knew from the very beginning.

And Philippians 2:6–7, "Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men." The Holy Spirit conceived a human nature in Mary, but the person who was conceived was the Son Himself.

The phrase, ‘who being in the form of God,’ was the Son himself, whom the Father indwelled, and the actuations were all done by the Supreme Spirit Being indwelling in him - the Father. The Father, whose name is Jesus, took upon Him the form of a servant - the Son, per se - and was made in the likeness of men. The overshadowing of the Holy Spirit [one of the Spirits created by God] to Mary was done under the power of God, and the same gave way to the conceiving and birth of the Son of God.

So when I say the Son became the ‘seed’ implanted in Mary, I’m affirming the biblical teaching that the Incarnation was the Son’s own act, not merely the Father working through a human vessel.

Sorry, but you’re totally out of order, even if we base our discussion in the pages of the bible. The angel clearly said the following to Mary:

“The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.”

Notice that the actuation of Notice that the actuation of The Almighty God, through the Holy Ghost - the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee - is the root cause of Mary’s conception and giving birth to the holy thing, which shall be called the Son of God. The existence of the Son of God, as clearly uttered by the angel, will come [only] upon his birth from his surrogate mother, Mary.

The Father, Son, and Spirit each have distinct roles, but the Son is fully divine and personally involved in His own

Godlically speaking, your quote above is off the grid and is considered your honest opinion and sand castle.

Thus saith the Lord Jesus:

All of you who are listening, listen carefully! I am your Lord God. Who are you afraid of? I am the Almighty. Who are you intimidated by? Remember, when I am by your side, you have nothing to fear, nothing to worry about, because I will save you from any calamity if you trust in Me and regard Me as your salvation and eternal life. As your Lord, whom you alone will worship and none other, I am the one true God existing in heaven, earth, or universe. I created all things, I gave you life. Where will you go? If not to Me, you have nowhere else to go.


God is the Almighty. To Him, nothing is impossible. From Him comes all things and the life that all people possess. From Him also comes good and evil, light and darkness. No one can live in the world except through Him. It is Him who came in the flesh and will return on the judgement. He is the life and the death, the beginning and the end, the way, the truth, the salvation, the forgiveness, and He is everything.

There is only one God, but like people, if a person has a name like Jose, he may also have nicknames like Juseng or Use. Similarly, God has different names - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit - but He is still one Almighty God. He called Himself the Son when He became human to redeem people's sins, and He is called the Holy Spirit as a guide for people. Because some people have limited understanding, they don't believe that God is everywhere, so He gave Himself different names, but some people still think God is three.

DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Revelations won]

Dear Placebofactor,

As I read your last post it appears that you are a proponent of "the Trinity Doctrine" . Is that correct?

[Capbook]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #1]



The Son was only God’s vessel (John 14:10-11) in coming in the flesh. The power that was manifested in the Son, a human like us, was the Father himself.

Based on your logic of John 14:10,11 that Jesus is the Almighty God the Father, as Jesus is in the Father and the Father in Him.
Applying same logic to verse 20, as Jesus is the Almighty God the Father in us, can we be the same also with God the Father?

John 14:20  At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 

Defnitely NOT…. read the verse carefully to avoid misconception, please.

Note: Based on your logic of John 14:10,11 that Jesus is the Almighty God, the Father, ……as the Son, per se, is in the Father, and the Father is in him.

Isn't this statement "that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me" you based your interpretation that Jesus is the Almighty God the Father OneJack?

Joh 14:10  "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works. 
Joh 14:11  "Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves. 

This is your question, “Applying same logic to verse 20, as Jesus is the Almighty God the Father in us, can we be the same also with God the Father?”

Jesus is not indwelling in us based on verse 20, you may have misread it, haven’t you? Therefore, your logic doesn’t apply to anyone of us today.

May we know Who you understand as the "I" in the verse OneJack?

John 14:20  "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. 

[OneJack]

Based on your logic of John 14:10,11 that Jesus is the Almighty God the Father, as Jesus is in the Father and the Father in Him.
Applying same logic to verse 20, as Jesus is the Almighty God the Father in us, can we be the same also with God the Father?

John 14:20  At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 

Defnitely NOT…. read the verse carefully to avoid misconception, please.

Note: Based on your logic of John 14:10,11 that Jesus is the Almighty God, the Father, ……as the Son, per se, is in the Father, and the Father is in him.

Isn't this statement "that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me" you based your interpretation that Jesus is the Almighty God the Father OneJack?

Joh 14:10  "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works. 
Joh 14:11  "Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves. 

This is your question, “Applying same logic to verse 20, as Jesus is the Almighty God the Father in us, can we be the same also with God the Father?”

Jesus is not indwelling in us based on verse 20, you may have misread it, haven’t you? Therefore, your logic doesn’t apply to anyone of us today.

May we know Who you understand as the "I" in the verse OneJack?

John 14:20  "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. 

It’s Jesus Christ [the Almighty God] through the Son of God.