CS Lewis: Proof of God through universal morality?

Creationism, Evolution, and other science issues

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
QED
Prodigy
Posts: 3798
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 5:34 am
Location: UK

CS Lewis: Proof of God through universal morality?

Post #1

Post by QED »

While debating chapter 7 of the "The God Delusion" seventil posted a quote concerning C.S.Lewis and his attempt at proving the existence of God through the existence of universal morality:
seventil wrote:
In Mere Christianity, Lewis wrote:

1. There is a universal moral law.
2. If there is a universal moral law, then there must be a universal moral lawgiver.
Therefore,
3. There must be God.

That was his basic proposal and spent a good deal of time trying to prove this.

Now, I won't do the man justice here (I suggest reading through it, he explains it much better than I can) but I'll try to summarize:

(taken from http://apologetics.johndepoe.com/morality.html)

There is a Universal Moral Law

The first step in Lewis's moral argument is to establish that there is a universal moral law. One reason to accept this premise is that without it, all moral disagreements would make no sense. Lewis points out that we appeal to a universal moral standard all the time. If someone cuts in line at an amusement park, we say, "that's not fair." When a psychotic murderer tortures, rapes, and brutally kills his victims, we say, "that's evil." Whenever we appeal to these standards, Lewis notes that we do not have to explain why these things are considered morally bad or evil. They are morally wrong, and everyone knows it. If a complete stranger walked into your house and picked up your television and started walking out, more than likely you will get up and say something like, "Hey, stop that! That is my tv." What you are doing in that scenario is appealing to a universal moral law. You assume it is an understood standard for all people to follow a principle of not taking things that are not theirs. If this person responded by saying, "So what?", you would probably think that person was very strange or perhaps crazy. When people do not understand certain moral values (for example, sociopaths who feel there is nothing morally wrong with any actions, including killing innocent people for no reason), we think there is something is seriously wrong with them. Lewis believes that this is best explained because we (correctly) assume there is a universal moral law.

Another reason Lewis explains for why there must be a universal moral law is that all moral judgments would be meaningless. For example, when we say, "The Nazis were wrong to murder the Jews," what do we mean? Does it mean it is just my personal opinion that the Nazis were wrong? If that is so, it does not seem to make much difference what the Nazis do. It would be on par with my difference of opinion regarding chocolate or vanilla ice cream. Or consider the claims against countries who repress women or mistreat women. If there is no universal moral law, on what grounds can we judge these countries to be committing a moral evil? Without a universal moral law, all of these claims amount to mere differences of opinion, but there cannot be a right or wrong view. In other words, without a universal moral law, the Nazis happen to prefer Nazi morality, and you happen to prefer anti-Nazi morality, but there is no real standard by which we can judge which of the two views is correct. Without a universal moral law, this judgment is a matter of opinion. However, it seems clear that the moral status of certain actions (e.g., the Nazis) is not a matter of subjective opinion, and this is because we presume there is a universal moral law.

So, C. S. Lewis, if he is right thus far, has established that there is a universal moral law. At this point he hasn't appealed to God or made claims that even most atheists would find contentious. In fact, Lewis believes that the moral law is something that all humans are bound to follow, no matter how hard they try to escape from it. So, Lewis believes that this first premise is well-founded.

If There is a Universal Moral Law, then There is a Universal Moral Law Giver


After establishing the existence of a universal moral law, Lewis wonders at the explanation of the existence of this universal moral law. Lewis arrives at the conclusion that a universal moral law implies a moral law Giver. Moral laws, unlike physical laws, are obligations or rules that one is responsible to follow. Without a person who makes these laws, it seems utterly inexplicable that they should exist. We can imagine a molecule by molecule physical duplication of our universe existing without any moral rules, so it seems that moral laws are not entailed by any physical, natural features of the universe. If the universal moral law is not entailed by the natural, physical aspects of the universe, how do we explain the universal moral law? Lewis believes that the best answer to this question maintains that the universal moral law implies that there is a universal moral law Giver. This law Giver could not be any arbitrary being. The kind of being to which the universal moral law points would be supremely powerful (in order to create the universal moral law), perfectly good (in order to be the objective standard for the moral law), and a being who is interested in our behavior (in order to explain why he makes us subject to the moral law). In other words, the moral law Giver would have to be like the personal God of the Christian tradition.

Even though this second premise is much more controversial than the first one, Lewis has put forward a plausible explanation for the moral law. Moreover, since better explanations do not seem forthcoming, it seems that Lewis has given a substantial defense of the second premise.

Therefore, God Must Exist

If one accepts the first two premises, then the conclusion follows logically. So, to resist Lewis's argument, one must show that one of the two premises is false. Below I will consider some of the most often cited ways to deny one of the two premises.

Is the Moral Law "Herd Instinct?"


One way to deny the second premise of Lewis's argument suggests that the universal moral law can be explained by herd instinct. By "herd instinct," I mean something developed by our physical nature like evolution or survival of the fittest. This means that we find ourselves obligated to follow our strongest impulse, which can be explained by naturalistic processes. The problem with this rejoinder is that our our strongest impulse is not always the right thing to do. For example, there are times when self-sacrifice is the right thing to do, yet it is not something that could be explained by herd instinct. Furthermore, this tries to get something more from something less. We would expect to be able to explain features of our physical features by appealing to physical processes, but we've seen that the universal moral law is not the sort of thing that would be entailed by any combination of physical material and laws.

Is the Moral Law Just a Social Convention?

Another way to resist Lewis's argument suggests that the moral law is merely a learned social convention. (This could be seen as a way to challenge the first premise by denying that the moral law is universal, or it might be a way to deny the second premise by offering an alternative explanation for the universal moral law.) Even though we often learn morality through social conventions, that does not prove that morality is reducible to social conventions. We also learn things like mathematics and logic through social institutions, but we know that math and logic are not reducible to society. This objection confuses how we learn moral laws with the nature of moral laws.

It is also worth noting that, on this view, we can accept groups of people as the source of morality but not individuals. But it is not clear why this distinction should be made. Of course, if we acknowledged that morality is completely subjective (i.e., up to each individual to decide for himself) this would also lead to obvious problems. So, the alleged solution is to hold that morality is determined by societies or other social conventions. But this suggestion also leads to obvious problems. For example, how could we ever say a society has morally improved, if the moral standard is set by that society? This would also lead to the absurd conclusion that advocates of social change, like Martin Luther King Jr., are morally evil, since they oppose what is established according to their societies conventions. Moreover, this would make any social convention that establishes moral laws infallible, but we know that these societies can be judged as to whether they are meeting objective moral standards (e.g., the Nazis; any society that violates human rights). Clearly, morality cannot come from social convention.

Is the Moral Law My Will Itself?

Some suppose that the moral law is something we must impose upon ourself. Many believe Immanuel Kant proposed morality in this function. Yet, this too cannot fully account for the nature of morality. This would make the one being held responsible to the rules as the same person giving the rules. It seems rather pointless to have morality on one's own terms. Why even bother with morality at all? Even if one puts tough restrictions on oneself, one can change them as it becomes convenient. It is like a jailor who locks himself in a cell, but keeps the key. The appearance of being confined to his jail cell is illusive. He is not really bound to his cell because at any time he can unlock it and leave. Therefore, our own will cannot account for the moral law.

Could There Be No Moral Law?

Another way to reject Lewis's argument is to deny the first premise. If there is no universal moral law, then there is nothing that needs to be explained. Perhaps, the critic might claim, we have these moral intuitions, but they are all false illusions of a law that doesn't really exist. In other words, there is no moral law. The problem with this view is that the moral law is not a mere description of human behavior but a prescription for human behavior. If the moral law were something we could cast off and live without, this could be a plausible solution, but living without the moral law is simply impossible. Since we did not create it, we cannot cast it off. We cannot escape the moral law because it is impressed upon us. We cannot escape the moral law any more than we can escape the laws of logic or mathematics. Denying the universal moral law would ultimately lapse into moral relativism leaving all moral statements and actions meaningless, thus making Adolf Hitler and Mother Theresa equally good and evil. Such a view of morality is not only impossible to live in practice, but obviously wrong when comparing saints and villains (like Hitler and Mother Theresa).

The case sketched above summarizes C. S. Lewis's moral argument for the existence of God. Lewis's argument contains some features that are common to most versions of the moral argument for the existence of God, but there are some subtle differences in some of the other arguments that are worth exploring.
I have argued before that there are reasonable scientific explanations for the apparent existence of the universal morality perceived by Lewis. In brief, while he may indeed be able to establish that there are what we might identify as universal moral laws, he rejects the notion that they are generated and impressed upon us through our genetic inheritance.

The question for debate is then as follows: are the objections stated under the heading Is the Moral Law "Herd Instinct?" an effective dismissal of the notion that morality could be innate behaviour conditioned by our evolution?

User avatar
Undertow
Scholar
Posts: 486
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 6:01 am
Location: Australia

Post #11

Post by Undertow »

I would argue that evolution has layed down a moral basis via altruism yet through self actualisation we are able to make social constructs which aim to maximise the happiness of the individual. These social contructs are easily formed by some authoritive figure who dictates, in a way, and children follow because thier brains are so capable to absorb information and follow orders. Give it a couple of thousand years of passing values from parent to child, an incomplete understanding of the universe and you've got a religion.

For example, there are times when self-sacrifice is the right thing to do, yet it is not something that could be explained by herd instinct.
I would have thought self-sacrafice for a female would benefit the herd. The more females, the more child baring you have. If there's one less male, it won't really effect the herd as much as one less female would. I suppose you could throw the whole male providor head of the family thing in here too though I couldn't give a detailed explanation from an evolutinary standpoint without looking into it further.
Image

4gold
Sage
Posts: 527
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 3:33 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: CS Lewis: Proof of God through universal morality?

Post #12

Post by 4gold »

QED wrote:The question for debate is then as follows: are the objections stated under the heading Is the Moral Law "Herd Instinct?" an effective dismissal of the notion that morality could be innate behaviour conditioned by our evolution?
I have argued this with you before, and I am not sure where our wires are getting crossed, because I still cannot understand your position.

If morality is an innate behavior conditioned by our evolution, I do not understand the universal shift of civilized humans from polygamy to monogamy.

If monogamy is our innate behavior and evolution favors polygamy, what explains the shift? And if monogamy is a universal innate behavior in humans, what caused universal polygamy thousands of years ago?

User avatar
Confused
Site Supporter
Posts: 7308
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:55 am
Location: Alaska

Re: CS Lewis: Proof of God through universal morality?

Post #13

Post by Confused »

4gold wrote:
QED wrote:The question for debate is then as follows: are the objections stated under the heading Is the Moral Law "Herd Instinct?" an effective dismissal of the notion that morality could be innate behaviour conditioned by our evolution?
I have argued this with you before, and I am not sure where our wires are getting crossed, because I still cannot understand your position.

If morality is an innate behavior conditioned by our evolution, I do not understand the universal shift of civilized humans from polygamy to monogamy.

If monogamy is our innate behavior and evolution favors polygamy, what explains the shift? And if monogamy is a universal innate behavior in humans, what caused universal polygamy thousands of years ago?
Social evolution. Morality cannot be shown to be innate per se. It has changed over time and over circumstances. What was moral in the 17th century is easily considered amoral now. Society grows and new laws must be set to consider the dynamics of larger populations. Consider how child labor used to be considered fine. Slavery way. Polygamy was. 30 year olds marrying 14 year olds was. But as we evolve and learn more about human behavior and conditioning, we adapt our morals to reflect these changes. For good reading: Guns, Germs, and Steel by Jared Diamond. It isn't any easy read but is phenomenal for its draws on human societies and their evolution.

Overall, I think you will find it near impossible to prove that any given human behavior is universally innate.
What we do for ourselves dies with us,
What we do for others and the world remains
and is immortal.

-Albert Pine
Never be bullied into silence.
Never allow yourself to be made a victim.
Accept no one persons definition of your life; define yourself.

-Harvey Fierstein

4gold
Sage
Posts: 527
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 3:33 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: CS Lewis: Proof of God through universal morality?

Post #14

Post by 4gold »

Confused wrote:Overall, I think you will find it near impossible to prove that any given human behavior is universally innate.
Since we're using Lewis's model of universal morality as our example, let me pull a quote from his book:
If anyone will take the trouble to compare the moral teaching
of, say, the ancient Egyptians, Babylonians, Hindus, Chinese, Greeks and
Romans, what will really strike him will be how very like they are to each
other and to our own. Some of the evidence for this I have put together in
the appendix of another book called The Abolition of Man; but for our
present purpose I need only ask the reader to think what a totally different
morality would mean. Think of a country where people were admired for
running away in battle, or where a man felt proud of double-crossing all the
people who had been kindest to him. You might just as well try to imagine a
country where two and two made five. Men have differed as regards what
people you ought to be unselfish to-whether it was only your own family, or
your fellow countrymen, or everyone. But they have always agreed that you
ought not to put yourself first. Selfishness has never been admired. Men
have differed as to whether you should have one wife or four. But they have
always agreed that you must not simply have any woman you liked.
I would agree with Lewis. There are behaviors that have been universally moral for at least as long as we've had ancient writings. Charity, altruism, and self-sacrifice have always been moral in every society since the beginning of recorded history. Selfishness, cowardice, and malice have always been immoral in every soceity since the beginning of recorded history. The definitions of these terms have changed from society to society and time period to time period, but the terms themselves have always been universally moral or immoral.

4gold
Sage
Posts: 527
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 3:33 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: CS Lewis: Proof of God through universal morality?

Post #15

Post by 4gold »

Confused wrote:Overall, I think you will find it near impossible to prove that any given human behavior is universally innate.
Since we're using Lewis's model of universal morality as our example, let me pull a quote from his book:
If anyone will take the trouble to compare the moral teaching
of, say, the ancient Egyptians, Babylonians, Hindus, Chinese, Greeks and
Romans, what will really strike him will be how very like they are to each
other and to our own. Some of the evidence for this I have put together in
the appendix of another book called The Abolition of Man; but for our
present purpose I need only ask the reader to think what a totally different
morality would mean. Think of a country where people were admired for
running away in battle, or where a man felt proud of double-crossing all the
people who had been kindest to him. You might just as well try to imagine a
country where two and two made five. Men have differed as regards what
people you ought to be unselfish to-whether it was only your own family, or
your fellow countrymen, or everyone. But they have always agreed that you
ought not to put yourself first. Selfishness has never been admired. Men
have differed as to whether you should have one wife or four. But they have
always agreed that you must not simply have any woman you liked.
I would agree with Lewis. There are behaviors that have been universally moral for at least as long as we've had ancient writings. Charity, altruism, and self-sacrifice have always been moral in every society since the beginning of recorded history. Selfishness, cowardice, and malice have always been immoral in every soceity since the beginning of recorded history. The definitions of these terms have changed from society to society and time period to time period, but the terms themselves have always been universally moral or immoral.

User avatar
Confused
Site Supporter
Posts: 7308
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:55 am
Location: Alaska

Re: CS Lewis: Proof of God through universal morality?

Post #16

Post by Confused »

4gold wrote:
Confused wrote:Overall, I think you will find it near impossible to prove that any given human behavior is universally innate.
Since we're using Lewis's model of universal morality as our example, let me pull a quote from his book:
If anyone will take the trouble to compare the moral teaching
of, say, the ancient Egyptians, Babylonians, Hindus, Chinese, Greeks and
Romans, what will really strike him will be how very like they are to each
other and to our own. Some of the evidence for this I have put together in
the appendix of another book called The Abolition of Man; but for our
present purpose I need only ask the reader to think what a totally different
morality would mean. Think of a country where people were admired for
running away in battle, or where a man felt proud of double-crossing all the
people who had been kindest to him. You might just as well try to imagine a
country where two and two made five. Men have differed as regards what
people you ought to be unselfish to-whether it was only your own family, or
your fellow countrymen, or everyone. But they have always agreed that you
ought not to put yourself first. Selfishness has never been admired. Men
have differed as to whether you should have one wife or four. But they have
always agreed that you must not simply have any woman you liked.
I would agree with Lewis. There are behaviors that have been universally moral for at least as long as we've had ancient writings. Charity, altruism, and self-sacrifice have always been moral in every society since the beginning of recorded history. Selfishness, cowardice, and malice have always been immoral in every society since the beginning of recorded history. The definitions of these terms have changed from society to society and time period to time period, but the terms themselves have always been universally moral or immoral.
Selfishness can be admired if it encompasses survival. If you are stranded on an island with one other and there are only 3 apples for food and no sign of rescue anytime soon, tell me, will you give all 3 apples to the other person? Will you give them 2 and you keep one? If you have an infant and wife you know are searching for you, would you not at the very least, only give up one of the apples? Self preservation is a form of selfishness. Altruism only works in regards to the survival of one species. One species doesn't sacrifice itself for another. If you were being attacked by the last bear on the planet, would you die to let it live? Cowardice is relative to the situation. If you are hiding in a shelter, surrounded by 100 terrorists who are killing the 10 other people outside, is it beneficial for you to jump out and die as well? Is it cowardice for you to stay hidden until they leave then run to safety?

No, the definitions don't change, just the circumstances we judge the actions. This is why they aren't universal. Because their is an exception for every "moral" action. And depending on what time period you are judging "morality" it can change as well. Just as if you lived during the time of slavery, if you were a white plantation owner, you would likely not see anything immoral about how slaves were treated. Nor can we look back at that time period and say those were immoral people. Because morality is relative to the situation and to the time it is being evaluated in.
What we do for ourselves dies with us,
What we do for others and the world remains
and is immortal.

-Albert Pine
Never be bullied into silence.
Never allow yourself to be made a victim.
Accept no one persons definition of your life; define yourself.

-Harvey Fierstein

4gold
Sage
Posts: 527
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 3:33 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: CS Lewis: Proof of God through universal morality?

Post #17

Post by 4gold »

Confused wrote:Selfishness can be admired if it encompasses survival. If you are stranded on an island with one other and there are only 3 apples for food and no sign of rescue anytime soon, tell me, will you give all 3 apples to the other person? Will you give them 2 and you keep one? If you have an infant and wife you know are searching for you, would you not at the very least, only give up one of the apples? Self preservation is a form of selfishness. Altruism only works in regards to the survival of one species. One species doesn't sacrifice itself for another. If you were being attacked by the last bear on the planet, would you die to let it live? Cowardice is relative to the situation. If you are hiding in a shelter, surrounded by 100 terrorists who are killing the 10 other people outside, is it beneficial for you to jump out and die as well? Is it cowardice for you to stay hidden until they leave then run to safety?

No, the definitions don't change, just the circumstances we judge the actions. This is why they aren't universal. Because their is an exception for every "moral" action. And depending on what time period you are judging "morality" it can change as well. Just as if you lived during the time of slavery, if you were a white plantation owner, you would likely not see anything immoral about how slaves were treated. Nor can we look back at that time period and say those were immoral people. Because morality is relative to the situation and to the time it is being evaluated in.
Yes, there are exceptions to every rule. This doesn't disprove the rule. In fact, it serves to prove the rule. I feel bad for using Lewis's words again, instead of my own, but since this a post about Lewis's theory of universal morality, it is probably most apt:
Every one has heard people quarrelling. Sometimes it sounds funny and
sometimes it sounds merely unpleasant; but however it sounds, I believe we
can learn something very important from listening to the kind of things they
say. They say things like this: "How'd you like it if anyone did the same to
you?"-"That's my seat, I was there first"-"Leave him alone, he isn't doing
you any harm"- "Why should you shove in first?"-"Give me a bit of your
orange, I gave you a bit of mine"-"Come on, you promised." People say things
like that every day, educated people as well as uneducated, and children as
well as grown-ups. Now what interests me about all these remarks is that the
man who makes them is not merely saying that the other man's behaviour does
not happen to please him. He is appealing to some kind of standard of
behaviour which he expects the other man to know about. And the other man
very seldom replies: "To hell with your standard." Nearly always he tries to
make out that what he has been doing does not really go against the
standard, or that if it does there is some special excuse. He pretends there
is some special reason in this particular case why the person who took the
seat first should not keep it, or that things were quite different when he
was given the bit of orange, or that something has turned up which lets him
off keeping his promise. It looks, in fact, very much as if both parties had
in mind some kind of Law or Rule of fair play or decent behaviour or
morality or whatever you like to call it, about which they really agreed.
And they have. If they had not, they might, of course, fight like animals,
but they could not quarrel in the human sense of the word. Quarrelling means
trying to show that the other man is in the wrong. And there would be no
sense in trying to do that unless you and he had some sort of agreement as
to what Right and Wrong are; just as there would be no sense in saying that
a footballer had committed a foul unless there was some agreement about the
rules of football.
If we do not believe in
decent behaviour, why should we be so anxious to make excuses for not having
behaved decently? The truth is, we believe in decency so much-we feel the
Rule or Law pressing on us so- that we cannot bear to face the fact that we
are breaking it, and consequently we try to shift the responsibility. For
you notice that it is only for our bad behaviour that we find all these
explanations. It is only our bad temper that we put down to being tired or
worried or hungry; we put our good temper down to ourselves.
What would be the point of demonstrating the exceptions to the rule, if there were no rule itself?

User avatar
QED
Prodigy
Posts: 3798
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 5:34 am
Location: UK

Re: CS Lewis: Proof of God through universal morality?

Post #18

Post by QED »

4gold wrote:I have argued this with you before, and I am not sure where our wires are getting crossed, because I still cannot understand your position.
Hello 4gold. The idea that an appearance of universal morality in humans implies an external set of givens is totally redundant in the light of moral behaviour being inherited by one of a variety of routes.
4gold wrote: If morality is an innate behavior conditioned by our evolution, I do not understand the universal shift of civilized humans from polygamy to monogamy.
While I would assign this to a cultural inheritance (as it seems to be impressed on a relatively short timescale) it could in principle be assigned to evolution. If we make a study of sexual selection in female birds for example, preferences for mates can induce direction in a variety of ways -- some we would class as physiological, and others psychological (behavioural). Given that behaviour as well as physical form can be instructed through genetic inheritance it should be rather obvious how sexual selection could morph it over time. But form the point of view of any individual in any generation, they are working to what appears to be an "absolute reference" e.g. Male Peacocks should have a stupendous tail feather display (all female Peacocks simply know that as an absolute).
4gold wrote: If monogamy is our innate behavior and evolution favors polygamy, what explains the shift? And if monogamy is a universal innate behavior in humans, what caused universal polygamy thousands of years ago?
That's why it's far more likely that your example is a product of cultural inheritance. As I said, there are more than one route to inheritance of behaviourism. I think some of your other examples, of what I would regard as long-term "universals", would be better assigned to genes. If you look at human behaviour as having evolved alongside human physiology you are regarding a minimum of several hundred thousand years in which social living would have no problem selecting the "best set of rules" that suit the "game of living among others". This is covered, as you know, by Game Theory. The "game " of living among other humans is essentially the same wherever those humans live (Egypt, China, wherever). In every defined game there can be an optimum rule-set that selection (an optimising process) can readily uncover. This is how the universals regarding stealing, cowardice, selfishness can emerge in otherwise isolated communities -- as over the long term, many generations will independently converge on the same set of optimal rules for survival in what are essentially the same conditions.

I hope this makes it clearer why the existence of "shared values" across separate communities does no require a common, external, force to impose it. The force is the challenge to community living which is common to all communities consisting of human beings.

User avatar
Confused
Site Supporter
Posts: 7308
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:55 am
Location: Alaska

Re: CS Lewis: Proof of God through universal morality?

Post #19

Post by Confused »

4gold wrote:
Confused wrote:Selfishness can be admired if it encompasses survival. If you are stranded on an island with one other and there are only 3 apples for food and no sign of rescue anytime soon, tell me, will you give all 3 apples to the other person? Will you give them 2 and you keep one? If you have an infant and wife you know are searching for you, would you not at the very least, only give up one of the apples? Self preservation is a form of selfishness. Altruism only works in regards to the survival of one species. One species doesn't sacrifice itself for another. If you were being attacked by the last bear on the planet, would you die to let it live? Cowardice is relative to the situation. If you are hiding in a shelter, surrounded by 100 terrorists who are killing the 10 other people outside, is it beneficial for you to jump out and die as well? Is it cowardice for you to stay hidden until they leave then run to safety?

No, the definitions don't change, just the circumstances we judge the actions. This is why they aren't universal. Because their is an exception for every "moral" action. And depending on what time period you are judging "morality" it can change as well. Just as if you lived during the time of slavery, if you were a white plantation owner, you would likely not see anything immoral about how slaves were treated. Nor can we look back at that time period and say those were immoral people. Because morality is relative to the situation and to the time it is being evaluated in.
Yes, there are exceptions to every rule. This doesn't disprove the rule. In fact, it serves to prove the rule. I feel bad for using Lewis's words again, instead of my own, but since this a post about Lewis's theory of universal morality, it is probably most apt:
Every one has heard people quarrelling. Sometimes it sounds funny and
sometimes it sounds merely unpleasant; but however it sounds, I believe we
can learn something very important from listening to the kind of things they
say. They say things like this: "How'd you like it if anyone did the same to
you?"-"That's my seat, I was there first"-"Leave him alone, he isn't doing
you any harm"- "Why should you shove in first?"-"Give me a bit of your
orange, I gave you a bit of mine"-"Come on, you promised." People say things
like that every day, educated people as well as uneducated, and children as
well as grown-ups. Now what interests me about all these remarks is that the
man who makes them is not merely saying that the other man's behaviour does
not happen to please him. He is appealing to some kind of standard of
behaviour which he expects the other man to know about. And the other man
very seldom replies: "To hell with your standard." Nearly always he tries to
make out that what he has been doing does not really go against the
standard, or that if it does there is some special excuse. He pretends there
is some special reason in this particular case why the person who took the
seat first should not keep it, or that things were quite different when he
was given the bit of orange, or that something has turned up which lets him
off keeping his promise. It looks, in fact, very much as if both parties had
in mind some kind of Law or Rule of fair play or decent behaviour or
morality or whatever you like to call it, about which they really agreed.
And they have. If they had not, they might, of course, fight like animals,
but they could not quarrel in the human sense of the word. Quarrelling means
trying to show that the other man is in the wrong. And there would be no
sense in trying to do that unless you and he had some sort of agreement as
to what Right and Wrong are; just as there would be no sense in saying that
a footballer had committed a foul unless there was some agreement about the
rules of football.
If we do not believe in
decent behaviour, why should we be so anxious to make excuses for not having
behaved decently? The truth is, we believe in decency so much-we feel the
Rule or Law pressing on us so- that we cannot bear to face the fact that we
are breaking it, and consequently we try to shift the responsibility. For
you notice that it is only for our bad behaviour that we find all these
explanations. It is only our bad temper that we put down to being tired or
worried or hungry; we put our good temper down to ourselves.
What would be the point of demonstrating the exceptions to the rule, if there were no rule itself?
You are right, exceptions don't negate the rule, but they do make the rule non-universal. In other words, if the behavior can be found to be acceptable or beneficial, or even the most optimal in one circumstance while it is considered unacceptable in all others, then it isn't univerally unacceptable. Hence, no universal morality.
What we do for ourselves dies with us,
What we do for others and the world remains
and is immortal.

-Albert Pine
Never be bullied into silence.
Never allow yourself to be made a victim.
Accept no one persons definition of your life; define yourself.

-Harvey Fierstein

User avatar
QED
Prodigy
Posts: 3798
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 5:34 am
Location: UK

Post #20

Post by QED »

Quoting CS Lewis, 4gold wrote:It looks, in fact, very much as if both parties had in mind some kind of Law or Rule of fair play or decent behaviour or morality or whatever you like to call it, about which they really agreed. And they have. If they had not, they might, of course, fight like animals, but they could not quarrel in the human sense of the word.
Doesn't this sum it up rather well? The parties agree on rules that, were they not to exist, would result in fights. All it takes is for those rules to be inherited somehow and natural selection will write them. Thus the appearance of "universals" and the exceptions are explicable in purely natural terms.

Post Reply