The Burden of Proof

[McCulloch]

Certain atheists claim that there is no evidence that the Bible is anything other than a collection of myths and tales.

Certain Christians claim that there is no proof that the Bible is in error about anything that it contains.

The question for debate: Where does the burden of proof lie? Is it the responsibility of the doubters to disprove the Bible? Is it the responsibility of the believers to show that it is true, or is it enough for them to rely on the lack of any disproof?

[Carico]

According to the unbelievers on this thread, I can call any author a liar without proof for my claims and I would be right. In fact, the less I know about my subject matter, the more credible I would become in their eyes.

So I can see why they're so confused about where the burden of proof lies. And you guys think you're intelligent debaters?

[Celestial Dragon]

Certain atheists claim that there is no evidence that the Bible is anything other than a collection of myths and tales.

Certain Christians claim that there is no proof that the Bible is in error about anything that it contains.

The question for debate: Where does the burden of proof lie? Is it the responsibility of the doubters to disprove the Bible? Is it the responsibility of the believers to show that it is true, or is it enough for them to rely on the lack of any disproof?

The burden of proof is always on the accuser, not the accused.

In other words, the one who is doing the asserting has the burden of proof. Since Christians are the ones asserting the Bible is true, the onus is on them, by your logic. And for once, I agree.

Jesus has made his case. So he is presumed innocent until proven guilty. So claiming he is lying or that the authors of the bible are lying when they say they witnessed his life, words and deeds, then they need proof for their claims or their claims are called are called slander.

Due to lack of references and evidence, there doesn't seem to be much of substance in this paragraph, so I will dismiss it.

So let's see their proof that the bible is a lie. If they cannot present it, then the bible stands as true and their claims are slander.

No, let's see your proof that the Bible is true. Until then, it stands as just another errant work of literature that has a multitude false statements. The Bible is not true by default.

[Carico]

The evidence that the bible is true is right in the bible. So where's your evidence that it's not true? Nowhere. So since you're not speaking from knowledge or facts about Jewish history, then you have no case since fantasy is not a valid refutation. So the bible stands as true. sorry.

[Celestial Dragon]

The evidence that the bible is true is right in the bible. So where's your evidence that it's not true? Nowhere. So the bible stands as true. sorry.

This is circular reasoning. The only people who would believe the assertion "this books is true" would be the people who already believe that the Bible is true, in which case, they didn't need that assertion.

And again, the Bible is not true by default.

[Carico]

The evidence that the bible is true is right in the bible. So where's your evidence that it's not true? Nowhere. So the bible stands as true. sorry.

This is circular reasoning. The only people who would believe the assertion "this books is true" would be the people who already believe that the Bible is true, in which case, they didn't need that assertion.

And again, the Bible is not true by default.

Then by your "reasoning" I can say that all the biographers of Caesar are liars without proof for my claims and I would be right.

Okay, since you don't need proof for your claims then I don' t need proof, (even though I have eye-witness accounts and you have zip) then Jesus is Lord and that's true. Amen! The rules work both ways, my friend.

[Guest]

The evidence that the bible is true is right in the bible. So where's your evidence that it's not true? Nowhere. So since you're not speaking from knowledge or facts about Jewish history, then you have no case since fantasy is not a valid refutation. So the bible stands as true. sorry.

Cancel...withdraw comment. Going endlessly nowhere...........................

[Carico]

I can't access that website. So if you would be good enough to copy it that would be great.

[Cathar1950]

Certain atheists claim that there is no evidence that the Bible is anything other than a collection of myths and tales.

Certain Christians claim that there is no proof that the Bible is in error about anything that it contains.

The question for debate: Where does the burden of proof lie? Is it the responsibility of the doubters to disprove the Bible? Is it the responsibility of the believers to show that it is true, or is it enough for them to rely on the lack of any disproof?

The burden of proof is always on the accuser, not the accused. Jesus has made his case. So he is presumed innocent until proven guilty. So claiming he is lying or that the authors of the bible are lying when they say they witnessed his life, words and deeds, then they need proof for their claims or their claims are called are called slander. So let's see their proof that the bible is a lie. If they cannot present it, then the bible stands as true and their claims are slander.

You are making a claim and the burden is on you as this is not a court of law where the burden of proof is on the accuser such as the USA. Some courts of law have the burden of proof on the accused like the Christians have done.

Then there is the problem of you straw man argument. You are the only one calling the unknown authors of the gospels, or bible, liars by insisting it means something as you interpret it. I don't have to think they are liars especially when they are writing stories of myth and ritual used for teaching and services. You are making unnecessary claims and then saying those that question you are somehow calling the writers liars.
Then you have the nerve to say we are calling Jesus himself a liar because of what some writers wrote and how you read and interpret the writings.
I am sure there is some word for that...

[Celestial Dragon]

Why, oh why am I answering you. I guess I'm just bored.

The evidence that the bible is true is right in the bible. So where's your evidence that it's not true? Nowhere. So the bible stands as true. sorry.

This is circular reasoning. The only people who would believe the assertion "this books is true" would be the people who already believe that the Bible is true, in which case, they didn't need that assertion.

And again, the Bible is not true by default.

Then by your "reasoning" I can say that all the biographers of Caesar are liars without proof for my claims and I would be right.

No, because we have far more evidence, from different independent accounts, that Caesar existed. Not only that, we have writings of Caesar himself. Please remember that most historians would not consider everything 100% correct about his life, and much is still unknown about him.

Okay, since you don't need proof for your claims then I don' t need proof, (even though I have eye-witness accounts and you have zip) then Jesus is Lord and that's true. Amen! The rules work both ways, my friend.

What claims? I'm not claiming anything here, you are. Many times, personal anecdotes mean nothing to anybody except the person who had them.

Yes, your imaginary rules do work in any way you'd like, seeing that you like to change them as you go along. That's why they're called imaginary.

All right, I'm guess I'm finished with you for now. Later.

[Carico]

What claims? I'm not claiming anything here, you are. Many times, personal anecdotes mean nothing to anybody except the person who had them.

So you aren't making claims that the bible is false. Is that correct? Or are you operating on the premise that it's true? Which is it?

Whichever it is, all you have to do is do your research on the history of Israel and the Middle east. But if you believe that the Jews are the only group of people in the world who are lying about their history in the bible, then you can start with places like Babylon, Syria, etc. and work your way towards Israel.