Christian Salvation?

[POI]

According to the Bible, what minimum qualifications are required for Christian Heavenly salvation?

- Does a stillborn baby receive a free pass?
- Do all deceased children receive a free pass, prior to the age of enlightenment?
- Is it mandatory to believe, worship, and also attempt to follow Hm; while still knowing you will fall short of perfection in your attempts?
- Is some sort of baptism a requirement for salvation?
- Can you lack conviction that God even exists, but still be selected by your judged upon works?
- Must you keep specific Commandments all the time?
- Does blasphemy of the Holy Spirit guarantee damnation, regardless of later repentance of this prior deemed offense (i.e.) the born again Christians might be screwed?
- Are earnest deathbed conversions, by way of belief and repent to the Christian God, enough?
- Must you love God more than you love anyone on earth?
- Can you be a devout believer/follower, but choose not to give away the majority of your wealth to ones more in need than you?
- Can you be saved if you practice monogamous homosexuality until death?

[myth-one.com]

It's as if you are not reading my responses. I already acknowledged your assertion, without protest, that these individuals are re-raised later. You have no Verses which states these folks are instead brought to maturity/enlightenment for decision time. You admitted this is a guess.

The above is nothing I would have written.

myth-one.com wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:44 pm
I imagine resurrected human infants will be allowed to grow to maturity before making their decision. That's just my guess.

Yes, that is what I said.

There is no "instead" anywhere.

Since they're young and/or mentally challenged, let's assume they are not believers.

That being the case, they will be resurrected a thousand years after the Second Coming as humans with every other deceased nonbeliever.

They will all (all being every nonbeliever) be treated the same. They face judgment, they will be preached the gospel, and when capable of doing so, all will individually choose between everlasting life or everlasting death.

[PinSeeker]

Um, yes they are contradictory statements.

Nope.

Inexorable means "impossible to stop or prevent."

Right; they will not choose against their nature or contrary to their heart (who they are). It is impossible to stop or prevent, because they are wholly and freely inclined to one choice (the right one) rather than the other.

If God should decide to elect you, He made a choice for you to be inexorably drawn to Him.

No, He made a choice to change your heart so that you would be inexorably drawn to Him and thus choose Him. But I can understand how it might be hard to get past this; many Christians (which you may or may not be, I don't know) cannot either.

...if you are caused to be inexorably drawn to (something), you will have no choice but to pick that (something).

No, you will desire to make no other choice, or that choice will be (by far) the only logical and prudent choice to make, and you will thus make it.

Regarding salvation, our choice to repent of our sin and believe in Christ is in the context of God's gracious choice. If one is a member of God's elect, then He will, at the appointed time and by the working of His Spirit within the person, change the person's heart/nature. If and when this happens, the person, by his/her free will ~ which follows the heart/nature ~ will not fail to choose to repent of his/her sin and believe. It's not that we don't have a choice to make, or that we do or do not make that choice of our own free will, but it is God's choice before it can be ours.

Yes. So it is not the elected person's choice at all. It's God and God's alone... We have no choice in the matter.

Initially, yes, but subsequently, it's ours, and we will not fail then to make the right choice of our own free will. This is why Paul says in Romans 9 that "it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy." His very implication is that we (as well as God) make a choice. He only says that one is dependent on the other. Yes, we're talking about salvation here, so it's on a much higher level, so to speak, but we all make decisions every day regarding various things that are dependent on any number of things, even possibly a great many things. Do those things make our decision for us? Well, in a manner of speaking, maybe, but really, no, we make our own decisions.

If God should decide to choose to change one's heart, this means their heart needs to be inexorably changed ---> to follow Him. Then why not just elect EVERYONE?

Nitpicking a bit here, but 'inexorably' seems to be misused or misapplied here. I mean, yes, either God purposes to do this or not, and it happens (because the work of Holy Spirit in the person) or not. Maybe 'unilaterally' (on the part of God) would be a better fit, here. We'll go with that. Anyway, yes, post-Fall (Genesis 3), for every human being (except Jesus, Who was and is God ~ the second Person of the triune God ~ so, 100% God and 100% man), a change of heart ~ rebirth by the Holy Spirit ~ is what is needed for the person to then be compelled by his own nature, and thus of his own volition, to choose the right.

And just to interject myself briefly into yours and myth-one's discussion, what I'm saying here applies to babies and the mentally incapable also. God, by His Spirit, changes hearts, and He can do so regardless of age or ability to make a conscious choice. It's the heart that matters, not the choice. In the case of babies and the mentally incapable, if the Holy Spirit has changed the heart, then, if they were capable, they would most certainly make the right choice, but that's beyond the matter, really. Hey, we didn't ask our parents to give birth to us, did we? No, we couldn't, of course, because we weren't yet alive. Well, the same concept applies here: we can't ask to be born again of the Spirit until we are, because until that point, though we are physically alive, we are not spiritually alive. Until that point, we were dead in our sin (spiritually).

If sin is sin, then you cannot repent of sin. If you cannot repent of sin, and you admit repentance is a requirement, then no one is saved. And yet, you probably think you are saved. You do not find this confusing?

I see how it can be confusing for you.

It's confusing because (1) you look to be committing special pleading. It's confusing because (2) even if one is inexorably drawn, the elect cannot repent of 'sin'.

(1) Not at all, and...

(2) Yes they can. Again, you seem to be conflating the concepts of repentance and perfection with regard to sin or sinlessness. Even we Christians are still yet sinners. This is the human condition. Because of Adam's Fall (again, Genesis 3), we are still prone to sin because of our sinful nature (the "old man" in us, as Paul puts it). But we Christians have been given a second spiritual nature (the "new man" in us, as Paul says). Paul exhorts us to "put off the old man and put on the new." This is the internal conflict going on within us when we become Christians. These two "men" (natures) are at war within us from the time we are reborn of the Spirit to the time we leave this world (die). So, again I say (cutting and pasting), because of our condition, "perfection.. with regard to sinlessness is not possible in this life. In this life, we are not perfect at anything (far from it actually), and this includes our repentance. But we can be forgiven, of course, by confessing our sins and asking God to forgive us (in addition to asking Him to grant us, by His Spirit, a deep and lasting repentance). One day we will be glorified and no longer able to sin because we will be wholly inclined against all sinful behavior." So, repentance itself ~ of the heart ~ is the work of God the Holy Spirit. And He is working repentance in us ~ this is the ongoing work of sanctification ~ and yes, one day our repentance will be complete; He will bring it to completion at the day of Christ, as Paul says in Philippians 1:6. So we can live now in light of that future certainty. This is the "now and not yet" of the Gospel.

If at some point in one's life, a married homosexual does not remove themselves from such acts, then they are not really repenting. If at some point in one's life, a prostitute does not remove themselves from such acts, then they are not really repenting.

Not truly, perfectly repentant. Right. Fortunately, that's not required, because for us in this life, it's not possible. Even so, confession (on our part on an ongoing basis), which comes from a repentant heart, is necessary, and forgiveness from the Lord (which is in that case a certainty) is needed. But again, see above. The only thing I'll add here is that if they claim to be Christians but do not remove themselves from such acts or make any effort to do so, then the question becomes (in both cases), are they Elect, and are they truly reborn of the Spirit, and is the Spirit really at work in their lives... or not?

Do "lies' have their own special set of circumstances?

LOL! No. That is one of the Ten Commandments you know (the eighth).

You cannot have your cake, and eat it too. You must either redact your prior statement, that 'sin is sin' (or) admit to special pleading for some 'sin' (i.e.) lies, theft, trespassing.

Nope. See above. Instead of just reacting, think about it POI. You may arrive at the same conclusions, and if so, fine. But nope. Some sins are certainly more heinous than others, but sin is sin; God hates sin... all sin, regardless exactly what it is. In drawing from the Old Testament in Romans 6, Paul does not say, "the wages of certain sins is death," but rather, "the wages of sin is death."

-- This is exactly why I went into depth about homosexuality, and asked if an active homosexual can go to heaven....

Right, and I said possibly...

-- This is why I also asked if there exist any such thing as a "good sin"?

Right, and I said no.

You must, at some point, no longer willfully engage the remorseful/regretful act. Otherwise, your are not truly repenting.

To be repentant and to be perfect/sinless are two different things. What you're really talking about is perfection with regard to sinlessness, which is not possible in this life. In this life, we are not perfect at anything (far from it actually), and this includes our repentance. But we can be forgiven, of course, by confess our sins and asking God to forgive us (in addition to asking Him to grant us, by His Spirit, a deep and lasting repentance). One day we will be glorified and no longer able to sin because we will be wholly inclined against all sinful behavior.

We have already vetted out what 'repent' means. To simply be remorseful/regretful, or to even admit you are a sinner, does not mean you have repented of a sin. Again, please look at the active homosexual or the active prostitute examples.

See above.

If sin is sin, then to actively and willfully engage homosexual practices is no different than actively and willfully engaging in a lie, theft, or trespassing.

Sure. No less serious/grave. Sure. God hates sin, because it is the very antithesis of His nature. And one great day, it will be the very antithesis of ours (completely, and not just partially), too. Hey, I can make the very Biblical (and common sense) case that all sin, any one you want to name, is the product of one or more of the Ten Commandments. I mean, we don't have to try to do that with lying or theft or murder or adultery or covetousness, because those are all specifically named. But homosexuality, prostitution, every sin imaginable... I can. You might not buy it, but no matter.

Grace and peace to you, POI.

[POI]

It's as if you are not reading my responses. I already acknowledged your assertion, without protest, that these individuals are re-raised later. You have no Verses which states these folks are instead brought to maturity/enlightenment for decision time. You admitted this is a guess.

The above is nothing I would have written.

myth-one.com wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:44 pm
I imagine resurrected human infants will be allowed to grow to maturity before making their decision. That's just my guess.

Yes, that is what I said.

There is no "instead" anywhere.

Since they're young and/or mentally challenged, let's assume they are not believers.

That being the case, they will be resurrected a thousand years after the Second Coming as humans with every other deceased nonbeliever.

They will all (all being every nonbeliever) be treated the same. They face judgment, they will be preached the gospel, and when capable of doing so, all will individually choose between everlasting life or everlasting death.

The Bible does not say this? The Bible does not state that all the ones, which died incapable of belief, will be made to do so when re-risen.

[myth-one.com]

The Bible does not state that all the ones, which died incapable of belief, will be made to do so when re-risen.

All will not be made to believe, that is correct.

All will be allowed to choose to believe or not believe in Jesus.

[JehovahsWitness]

They will all (all being every nonbeliever) be treated the same. They face judgment, they will be preached the gospel, and when capable of doing so, all will individually choose between everlasting life or everlasting death.

So they will be judged for what they do after not prior to their resurrection ?

[POI]

Um, yes they are contradictory statements.

Nope.

Yep

Inexorable means "impossible to stop or prevent."

Right; they will not choose against their nature or contrary to their heart (who they are). It is impossible to stop or prevent, because they are wholly and freely inclined to one choice (the right one) rather than the other.

Their "nature" was given to them by God. Why not just give this "nature" to all?

If God should decide to elect you, He made a choice for you to be inexorably drawn to Him.

No, He made a choice to change your heart so that you would be inexorably drawn to Him and thus choose Him. But I can understand how it might be hard to get past this; many Christians (which you may or may not be, I don't know) cannot either.

Again, if it's God whom elects one's nature, then just elect all. Their nature will not be 'correct' until He elects them.

...if you are caused to be inexorably drawn to (something), you will have no choice but to pick that (something).

No, you will desire to make no other choice, or that choice will be (by far) the only logical and prudent choice to make, and you will thus make it.

Right, because God caused you to be drawn to Him, and one could make no other choice. Just cause all to do so.

If God should decide to choose to change one's heart, this means their heart needs to be inexorably changed ---> to follow Him. Then why not just elect EVERYONE?

Nitpicking a bit here, but 'inexorably' seems to be misused or misapplied here. I mean, yes, either God purposes to do this or not, and it happens (because the work of Holy Spirit in the person) or not. Maybe 'unilaterally' (on the part of God) would be a better fit, here. We'll go with that. Anyway, yes, post-Fall (Genesis 3), for every human being (except Jesus, Who was and is God ~ the second Person of the triune God ~ so, 100% God and 100% man), a change of heart ~ rebirth by the Holy Spirit ~ is what is needed for the person to then be compelled by his own nature, and thus of his own volition, to choose the right.

And just to interject myself briefly into yours and myth-one's discussion, what I'm saying here applies to babies and the mentally incapable also. God, by His Spirit, changes hearts, and He can do so regardless of age or ability to make a conscious choice. It's the heart that matters, not the choice. In the case of babies and the mentally incapable, if the Holy Spirit has changed the heart, then, if they were capable, they would most certainly make the right choice, but that's beyond the matter, really. Hey, we didn't ask our parents to give birth to us, did we? No, we couldn't, of course, because we weren't yet alive. Well, the same concept applies here: we can't ask to be born again of the Spirit until we are, because until that point, though we are physically alive, we are not spiritually alive. Until that point, we were dead in our sin (spiritually).

Rinse/repeat. Just cause everyone to be inexorably drawn to Him. The ones which are, have a "new nature", and would have no other choice.

If sin is sin, then you cannot repent of sin. If you cannot repent of sin, and you admit repentance is a requirement, then no one is saved. And yet, you probably think you are saved. You do not find this confusing?

I see how it can be confusing for you.

It's confusing because (1) you look to be committing special pleading. It's confusing because (2) even if one is inexorably drawn, the elect cannot repent of 'sin'.

(1) Not at all, and...

(2) Yes they can. Again, you seem to be conflating the concepts of repentance and perfection with regard to sin or sinlessness. Even we Christians are still yet sinners. This is the human condition. Because of Adam's Fall (again, Genesis 3), we are still prone to sin because of our sinful nature (the "old man" in us, as Paul puts it). But we Christians have been given a second spiritual nature (the "new man" in us, as Paul says). Paul exhorts us to "put off the old man and put on the new." This is the internal conflict going on within us when we become Christians. These two "men" (natures) are at war within us from the time we are reborn of the Spirit to the time we leave this world (die). So, again I say (cutting and pasting), because of our condition, "perfection.. with regard to sinlessness is not possible in this life. In this life, we are not perfect at anything (far from it actually), and this includes our repentance. But we can be forgiven, of course, by confessing our sins and asking God to forgive us (in addition to asking Him to grant us, by His Spirit, a deep and lasting repentance). One day we will be glorified and no longer able to sin because we will be wholly inclined against all sinful behavior." So, repentance itself ~ of the heart ~ is the work of God the Holy Spirit. And He is working repentance in us ~ this is the ongoing work of sanctification ~ and yes, one day our repentance will be complete; He will bring it to completion at the day of Christ, as Paul says in Philippians 1:6. So we can live now in light of that future certainty. This is the "now and not yet" of the Gospel.

(1) Yes it is special pleading, as long as you stick to your assertion that 'sin is sin'. Some sin you will not repent of willfully and knowingly.

(2) The problem, for YOU, is you shot yourself in the foot You stated "sin is sin". I brought up many examples as to why you might willfully commit a 'sin'. Here's some more:

- Trespass to save a child from a burning house...
- Steal a dictator's bullets so he cannot execute innocent people...

Trespassing and theft are 'sin', and 'sin' is always "bad". But I doubt God would judge you the same for doing the above, verses trespassing for fun, or stealing for personal gain But according to you, it's all equally 'bad'; because of course, sin is sin????

Furthermore, some 'sin' requires no longer doing them anymore, like homosexuality, pimping, prostitution, drug sales, etc... Otherwise, I doubt God thinks you are trying to 'repent' of this 'sin'. However, even prostitution can be deemed 'okay', if you had no other immediate way to provide for your starving child.

So, care to redact your prior assertion of 'sin is sin' yet?

If at some point in one's life, a married homosexual does not remove themselves from such acts, then they are not really repenting. If at some point in one's life, a prostitute does not remove themselves from such acts, then they are not really repenting.

Not truly, perfectly repentant. Right. Fortunately, that's not required, because for us in this life, it's not possible. Even so, confession (on our part on an ongoing basis), which comes from a repentant heart, is necessary, and forgiveness from the Lord (which is in that case a certainty) is needed. But again, see above. The only thing I'll add here is that if they claim to be Christians but do not remove themselves from such acts or make any effort to do so, then the question becomes (in both cases), are they Elect, and are they truly reborn of the Spirit, and is the Spirit really at work in their lives... or not?

Can we then remove the topic of 'repent' off the table, and only focus on belief/faith? If not, HOW much "repent" is necessary?

Do "lies' have their own special set of circumstances?

LOL! No. That is one of the Ten Commandments you know (the eighth).[/color]

1. Wait a minute? You stated "sin is sin". Why would I care if this is one of the ten commandments? If sin is sin, then it does not matter of the pecking order, does it?.?.?

2. Furthermore, if lies do not have their own special circumstance, is a) lying to your wife, by telling her you like her new dress, the SAME as b) lying to a child, so you may manipulate them?

If the answer here is "yes", then lies to protect ones feelings is equal to lying for manipulation? If the answer is 'no', then I guess "sin is NOT sin"?

You cannot have your cake, and eat it too. You must either redact your prior statement, that 'sin is sin' (or) admit to special pleading for some 'sin' (i.e.) lies, theft, trespassing.

Some sins are certainly more heinous than others, but sin is sin; God hates sin... all sin, regardless exactly what it is. In drawing from the Old Testament in Romans 6, Paul does not say, "the wages of certain sins is death," but rather, "the wages of sin is death."

Another contradictory statement... If sin is sin, then one sin is no more heinous than the next.

-- This is why I also asked if there exist any such thing as a "good sin"?

Right, and I said no.

If no sin is acceptable, and sin is sin, and you will willfully lie, for the rest of your life, then you are not repenting of sin; unless you wish to again redact the necessity of 'repent" for salvation.

You must, at some point, no longer willfully engage the remorseful/regretful act. Otherwise, your are not truly repenting.

To be repentant and to be perfect/sinless are two different things. What you're really talking about is perfection with regard to sinlessness, which is not possible in this life. In this life, we are not perfect at anything (far from it actually), and this includes our repentance. But we can be forgiven, of course, by confess our sins and asking God to forgive us (in addition to asking Him to grant us, by His Spirit, a deep and lasting repentance). One day we will be glorified and no longer able to sin because we will be wholly inclined against all sinful behavior.

We have already vetted out what 'repent' means. To simply be remorseful/regretful, or to even admit you are a sinner, does not mean you have repented of a sin. Again, please look at the active homosexual or the active prostitute examples.

See above.

Until you retract your prior statement that 'sin is sin', your explanation is filled with contradiction. And until you also care to qualify HOW much "repent" is necessary, you have no clue if you are saved. Nor, does the Bible disclose as much. Seems odd, being that we are speaking about the fate of your eternal soul here...

[Jemima]

According to the Bible, what minimum qualifications are required for Christian Heavenly salvation?

"Minimum qualifications"...? There are no minimum qualifications....there are just qualifications. Who told you there was a minimum?

According to the Bible, only a chosen few are qualified for "heavenly salvation"....but that is not the only salvation offered.
There are many who will be saved by surviving the end times, and also by resurrection in the new world to come. (2 Peter 3:13)
There is a reason for the "elect" being taken to heaven...these will become "kings and priests" in God's Kingdom, assisting Christ in his assignment as High Priest and King. (Revelation 20:6)
Kings need subjects and priests need sinners for whom to perform their priestly duties. These will rule from heaven, over earthly subjects.....bringing peace and security to the inhabitants of the earth. (Revelation 21:3-4) Taking us back to the conditions of the garden of Eden, lost through no fault on our part.

- Does a stillborn baby receive a free pass?

All the dead will be resurrected...that includes babies, children and adults. (John 5:28-29) The wages sin pays is death, so these have paid sin's wages and will be brought back to life here on earth to be reunited with their families.

- Do all deceased children receive a free pass, prior to the age of enlightenment?

Everyone who is of age to make their decision will be required to make one. When the judgment comes, young children will be included with their parents.
When the flood came, God did not spare the children. Raised to defy God, there was no one worth saving except Noah and his family. Sodom and Gomorrah were razed to the ground and the same principle applied. Children perished along with their depraved parents. There is no "age of enlightenment" There is however an age of accountability.....and its not chronological.

- Is it mandatory to believe, worship, and also attempt to follow Hm; while still knowing you will fall short of perfection in your attempts?

You think God does not acknowledge our imperfections? (Psalm 103:13-14) He provides a way to gain forgiveness, so that no matter how much we fall short, we are given that opportunity. Repentance is required though.

- Is some sort of baptism a requirement for salvation?

Baptism is a requirement....but infant baptism is meaningless because we have to choose to become a Christian of our own free will....no one can do that by proxy.
Those who choose to become Christians obligate themselves to imitate the Master in everything. His baptism was not to repent from sins because he didn't have any, and baptism does not wash away sins....the blood of Christ does that. Baptism is an offering of yourself to do the will of God for the rest of your life. It implies a vow of faithfulness not unlike a marriage vow, so God expects you to live up to it. (Matthew 28:19-20)

- Can you lack conviction that God even exists, but still be selected by your judged upon works?

If people were merely judged by their works then good humanitarians who are atheists would see themselves in the Kingdom of God.....but no unbelievers will ever be found there. If you lack conviction then you have not really searched for God because those who do in sincerity, will find him.
Ezra wrote to the nation of Israel and its King...."if you search for [God], he will let himself be found by you, but if you abandon him, he will abandon you."

- Must you keep specific Commandments all the time?

Since none of them are negotiable, I think so. Why would God have commands that do not require you to keep them?

- Does blasphemy of the Holy Spirit guarantee damnation, regardless of later repentance of this prior deemed offense (i.e.) the born again Christians might be screwed?

You would have to understand what blasphemy against the spirit is, and also explain what "damnation" is, since I don't see that used in any modern Bible.
There is only life or death, not heaven or hell.

- Are earnest deathbed conversions, by way of belief and repent to the Christian God, enough?

I don't think so, unless you die before the end comes, because once that time is upon us, there is no going back. Like Noah's day....it was God who closed the door of the ark, not Noah.
The door of opportunity has been open for close to two thousand years....everyone will have had ample opportunity to come into God's spiritual family.
I don't believe that any last minute jumping on board will be permitted.

- Must you love God more than you love anyone on earth?

Yes, it is the first and greatest commandment. But God cannot force you to love him.....we can only love him by getting to know him....not as the churches teach him, but as Christ himself taught his Father to be. To know him is to love him. (John 17:3)

- Can you be a devout believer/follower, but choose not to give away the majority of your wealth to ones more in need than you?

God forces no one to give away anything....but if we see a fellow human in need and we fail to give them practical assistance, then we can hardly call ourselves "Christians". Remember the "Good Samaritan"? The hero of the story was a hated Samaritan taking care of a Jewish victim of assault and robbery.
He did not care if he was of a different faith, because all he saw was the man in need.....and he helped him.
God expects us to share. (2 Corinthians 8:13-15)

- Can you be saved if you practice monogamous homosexuality until death?

A loaded question......
The answer from the Bible is....No. Because to have sexual relations with someone to whom you are not scripturally married is to commit sexual immorality. That is a crime against God and it doesn't matter what gender you are. Marriage is between a man and a woman because the act of sexual intercourse is primarily for the production of children. Pregnancy is not an unwanted side effect of someone's sex life and the sacred seed of life has a purpose and a place.....not in homosexual sex.

[POI]

According to the Bible, what minimum qualifications are required for Christian Heavenly salvation?

"Minimum qualifications"...? There are no minimum qualifications....there are just qualifications. Who told you there was a minimum?

According to the Bible, only a chosen few are qualified for "heavenly salvation"....but that is not the only salvation offered.
There are many who will be saved by surviving the end times, and also by resurrection in the new world to come. (2 Peter 3:13)
There is a reason for the "elect" being taken to heaven...these will become "kings and priests" in God's Kingdom, assisting Christ in his assignment as High Priest and King. (Revelation 20:6)
Kings need subjects and priests need sinners for whom to perform their priestly duties. These will rule from heaven, over earthly subjects.....bringing peace and security to the inhabitants of the earth. (Revelation 21:3-4) Taking us back to the conditions of the garden of Eden, lost through no fault on our part.

- Does a stillborn baby receive a free pass?

All the dead will be resurrected...that includes babies, children and adults. (John 5:28-29) The wages sin pays is death, so these have paid sin's wages and will be brought back to life here on earth to be reunited with their families.

- Do all deceased children receive a free pass, prior to the age of enlightenment?

Everyone who is of age to make their decision will be required to make one. When the judgment comes, young children will be included with their parents.
When the flood came, God did not spare the children. Raised to defy God, there was no one worth saving except Noah and his family. Sodom and Gomorrah were razed to the ground and the same principle applied. Children perished along with their depraved parents. There is no "age of enlightenment" There is however an age of accountability.....and its not chronological.

- Is it mandatory to believe, worship, and also attempt to follow Hm; while still knowing you will fall short of perfection in your attempts?

You think God does not acknowledge our imperfections? (Psalm 103:13-14) He provides a way to gain forgiveness, so that no matter how much we fall short, we are given that opportunity. Repentance is required though.

- Is some sort of baptism a requirement for salvation?

Baptism is a requirement....but infant baptism is meaningless because we have to choose to become a Christian of our own free will....no one can do that by proxy.
Those who choose to become Christians obligate themselves to imitate the Master in everything. His baptism was not to repent from sins because he didn't have any, and baptism does not wash away sins....the blood of Christ does that. Baptism is an offering of yourself to do the will of God for the rest of your life. It implies a vow of faithfulness not unlike a marriage vow, so God expects you to live up to it. (Matthew 28:19-20)

- Can you lack conviction that God even exists, but still be selected by your judged upon works?

If people were merely judged by their works then good humanitarians who are atheists would see themselves in the Kingdom of God.....but no unbelievers will ever be found there. If you lack conviction then you have not really searched for God because those who do in sincerity, will find him.
Ezra wrote to the nation of Israel and its King...."if you search for [God], he will let himself be found by you, but if you abandon him, he will abandon you."

- Must you keep specific Commandments all the time?

Since none of them are negotiable, I think so. Why would God have commands that do not require you to keep them?

- Does blasphemy of the Holy Spirit guarantee damnation, regardless of later repentance of this prior deemed offense (i.e.) the born again Christians might be screwed?

You would have to understand what blasphemy against the spirit is, and also explain what "damnation" is, since I don't see that used in any modern Bible.
There is only life or death, not heaven or hell.

- Are earnest deathbed conversions, by way of belief and repent to the Christian God, enough?

I don't think so, unless you die before the end comes, because once that time is upon us, there is no going back. Like Noah's day....it was God who closed the door of the ark, not Noah.
The door of opportunity has been open for close to two thousand years....everyone will have had ample opportunity to come into God's spiritual family.
I don't believe that any last minute jumping on board will be permitted.

- Must you love God more than you love anyone on earth?

Yes, it is the first and greatest commandment. But God cannot force you to love him.....we can only love him by getting to know him....not as the churches teach him, but as Christ himself taught his Father to be. To know him is to love him. (John 17:3)

- Can you be a devout believer/follower, but choose not to give away the majority of your wealth to ones more in need than you?

God forces no one to give away anything....but if we see a fellow human in need and we fail to give them practical assistance, then we can hardly call ourselves "Christians". Remember the "Good Samaritan"? The hero of the story was a hated Samaritan taking care of a Jewish victim of assault and robbery.
He did not care if he was of a different faith, because all he saw was the man in need.....and he helped him.
God expects us to share. (2 Corinthians 8:13-15)

- Can you be saved if you practice monogamous homosexuality until death?

A loaded question......
The answer from the Bible is....No. Because to have sexual relations with someone to whom you are not scripturally married is to commit sexual immorality. That is a crime against God and it doesn't matter what gender you are. Marriage is between a man and a woman because the act of sexual intercourse is primarily for the production of children. Pregnancy is not an unwanted side effect of someone's sex life and the sacred seed of life has a purpose and a place.....not in homosexual sex.

Thank you for your response. Before I dive in, I would like to ask you what Christian denomination, or other, you are?

[myth-one.com]

They will all (all being every nonbeliever) be treated the same. They face judgment, they will be preached the gospel, and when capable of doing so, all will individually choose between everlasting life or everlasting death.

So they will be judged for what they do after not prior to their resurrection ?

They will be judged on everything they've done.

They will learn the good news of the gospel which will be unsealed and preached to all the world at that time.

So the judgment period will also be a period of learning what the better way to live is -- God's way.

They will then be able to draw a comparison between their life and what it would have been had they followed God's commandments.

Having this knowledge for the first time will allow these nonbelievers to make an informed decision regarding whether to accept or reject everlasting life. If they accept the gift of everlasting life offered by Jesus, their names will be written in the Book of Life and they will never face death again.

[PinSeeker]

Um, yes they are contradictory statements.

Nope.

Yep

I get how you think so, but nope.

Inexorable means "impossible to stop or prevent."

Right; they will not choose against their nature or contrary to their heart (who they are). It is impossible to stop or prevent, because they are wholly and freely inclined to one choice (the right one) rather than the other.

Their "nature" was given to them by God. Why not just give this "nature" to all?

I guess God has His reasons. It seems appropriate here to quote Paul (again) from Romans 11: "Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and how inscrutable His ways! For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been His counselor?" As for your question here, you're asking about universalism, which some people do believe, but is not Biblical.

If God should decide to elect you, He made a choice for you to be inexorably drawn to Him.

No, He made a choice to change your heart so that you would be inexorably drawn to Him and thus choose Him. But I can understand how it might be hard to get past this; many Christians (which you may or may not be, I don't know) cannot either.

Again, if it's God whom elects one's nature, then just elect all. Their nature will not be 'correct' until He elects them.

See above.

...if you are caused to be inexorably drawn to (something), you will have no choice but to pick that (something).

No, you will desire to make no other choice, or that choice will be (by far) the only logical and prudent choice to make, and you will thus make it.

Right, because God caused you to be drawn to Him, and one could make no other choice.

But it's not that they "can make no other choice," it's that their new heart will not drive the person to desire to make those other choices, but rather cause the desire in the person to make the right choice. The ones who are drawn to Him make their own free will choice among other options. And everyone has that same opportunity. As Paul says in Romans 1, what can be known about God is clearly seen by all, so there is no excuse. Universalism would violate God's justice and His glory, and His Word is clear that He will not do that.

Just cause all to do so.

See above. Universalism would violate God's justice and His glory, and His Word is clear that He will not do either.

If God should decide to choose to change one's heart, this means their heart needs to be inexorably changed ---> to follow Him. Then why not just elect EVERYONE?

Nitpicking a bit here, but 'inexorably' seems to be misused or misapplied here. I mean, yes, either God purposes to do this or not, and it happens (because the work of Holy Spirit in the person) or not. Maybe 'unilaterally' (on the part of God) would be a better fit, here. We'll go with that. Anyway, yes, post-Fall (Genesis 3), for every human being (except Jesus, Who was and is God ~ the second Person of the triune God ~ so, 100% God and 100% man), a change of heart ~ rebirth by the Holy Spirit ~ is what is needed for the person to then be compelled by his own nature, and thus of his own volition, to choose the right.

And just to interject myself briefly into yours and myth-one's discussion, what I'm saying here applies to babies and the mentally incapable also. God, by His Spirit, changes hearts, and He can do so regardless of age or ability to make a conscious choice. It's the heart that matters, not the choice. In the case of babies and the mentally incapable, if the Holy Spirit has changed the heart, then, if they were capable, they would most certainly make the right choice, but that's beyond the matter, really. Hey, we didn't ask our parents to give birth to us, did we? No, we couldn't, of course, because we weren't yet alive. Well, the same concept applies here: we can't ask to be born again of the Spirit until we are, because until that point, though we are physically alive, we are not spiritually alive. Until that point, we were dead in our sin (spiritually).

Rinse/repeat. Just cause everyone to be inexorably drawn to Him. The ones which are, have a "new nature", and would have no other choice.

Right, rinse/repeat. Right back at you, POI. See above. The desire in the person is to choose the right because of the new heart, the new nature, and make that choice he/she will.

If sin is sin, then you cannot repent of sin. If you cannot repent of sin, and you admit repentance is a requirement, then no one is saved. And yet, you probably think you are saved. You do not find this confusing?

I see how it can be confusing for you.

It's confusing because (1) you look to be committing special pleading. It's confusing because (2) even if one is inexorably drawn, the elect cannot repent of 'sin'.

(1) Not at all, and...

(2) Yes they can. Again, you seem to be conflating the concepts of repentance and perfection with regard to sin or sinlessness. Even we Christians are still yet sinners. This is the human condition. Because of Adam's Fall (again, Genesis 3), we are still prone to sin because of our sinful nature (the "old man" in us, as Paul puts it). But we Christians have been given a second spiritual nature (the "new man" in us, as Paul says). Paul exhorts us to "put off the old man and put on the new." This is the internal conflict going on within us when we become Christians. These two "men" (natures) are at war within us from the time we are reborn of the Spirit to the time we leave this world (die). So, again I say (cutting and pasting), because of our condition, "perfection.. with regard to sinlessness is not possible in this life. In this life, we are not perfect at anything (far from it actually), and this includes our repentance. But we can be forgiven, of course, by confessing our sins and asking God to forgive us (in addition to asking Him to grant us, by His Spirit, a deep and lasting repentance). One day we will be glorified and no longer able to sin because we will be wholly inclined against all sinful behavior." So, repentance itself ~ of the heart ~ is the work of God the Holy Spirit. And He is working repentance in us ~ this is the ongoing work of sanctification ~ and yes, one day our repentance will be complete; He will bring it to completion at the day of Christ, as Paul says in Philippians 1:6. So we can live now in light of that future certainty. This is the "now and not yet" of the Gospel.

(1) Yes it is special pleading, as long as you stick to your assertion that 'sin is sin'. Some sin you will not repent of willfully and knowingly.

(2) The problem, for YOU, is you shot yourself in the foot You stated "sin is sin".

LOL!

(1) Nope.

(2) You just want to paint it that way, which, I understand.

I brought up many examples as to why you might willfully commit a 'sin'.

Oh yes, your "examples." Sure.

Here's some more:

- Trespass to save a child from a burning house...
- Steal a dictator's bullets so he cannot execute innocent people...

Okay, this shouldn't be necessary, but I'll speak to this:

(1) Where, POI, in God's Word, is trespassing deemed a sin? I mean, Paul exhorts us to obey the law of the land wherever we are (submit to authorities, Romans 13), because all authority is from God (although what those authorities mandate may certainly not be Godly), and whoever resists the authorities resists the authority God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. But trespassing is not a sin. Enough said there, but I can't resist:

Perhaps this is where you would have gone in response to the question above, but in Matthew 6, the Lord Jesus teaches us to pray (the Lord's Prayer, vv.6-11). We are to pray, among other things, that we would be forgiven our trespasses and to forgive others for their trespasses against us, right? Now, I'm being very facetious here, although it's not untrue, but hopefully you'll see the comedic value of this ~ in Matthew 6, Jesus is not teaching us to pray that God would forgive us for, um, going into buildings where there are 'no trespassing' signs, or that we should forgive others for going into buildings that we ourselves might own where we have posted 'no trespassing' signs. 'Trespasses,' in Matthew 6, POI (in other translations 'debts'), is another word for 'sins'... in this context, all those words are interchangeable. This is elementary; so surely you know this. But, so, really, to make it clearer (if necessary), "Forgive us our sin, as we forgive those who sin against us." And really, in that statement, He's talking about all sin, regardless of heinousness. So, ergo, sin is sin. Which is what I've said several times now.

(2) Several things to say here, but I'll try to be brief. It probably would not even be possible to steal a dictator's bullets; that's a fairly ridiculous "example," if it can even be called an example at all. Surely there would be other much more feasible and prudent ways to keep a dictator from executing innocent people. If one were, say, a Navy Seal, it might be possible to go in and capture or even kill a dictator (i.e., Osama Bin Laden... yes, a terrorist, not a dictator, but it still makes the necessary point, here; Adolph Hitler, if you like, although I guess he killed himself in South America after World War II before being captured). But then that brings up killing, which is not necessarily a sin. Murder certainly is, of course; that's Commandment Number Six. While murder necessarily is killing, killing is not necessarily murder. A soldier acting under the authority of the state and killing in a war is not murder ~ although it is certainly possible for a soldier to go outside the authority of the state and commit murder even in international conflict, in which case he or she would have sinned (and would also be subject to prosecution by said state, but that is beside the point). But, just using the Bin Laden example, the Seals that killed him did not commit murder.

Okay, not so brief. Brevity... not my forte. My apologies.

So, care to redact your prior assertion of 'sin is sin' yet?

Nope.

Can we then remove the topic of 'repent' off the table, and only focus on belief/faith?

If you want, sure. I would recommend it, if only for your sake.

You cannot have your cake, and eat it too. You must either redact your prior statement, that 'sin is sin' (or) admit to special pleading for some 'sin' (i.e.) lies, theft, trespassing.

Some sins are certainly more heinous than others, but sin is sin; God hates sin... all sin, regardless exactly what it is. In drawing from the Old Testament in Romans 6, Paul does not say, "the wages of certain sins is death," but rather, "the wages of sin is death."

Another contradictory statement... If sin is sin, then one sin is no more heinous than the next.

LOL! Sin is sin, but the heinousness of certain sins can certainly be lesser or greater than other sins. Heinousness denotes hatefulness and/or evil intent, and certainly, some sins can be more hateful or intentionally evil than others. But still, in the eyes of God, sin is still sin, regardless of heinousness.

-- This is why I also asked if there exist any such thing as a "good sin"?

Right, and I said no.

If no sin is acceptable, and sin is sin, and you will willfully lie, for the rest of your life, then you are not repenting of sin; unless you wish to again redact the necessity of 'repent" for salvation.

Forgiveness is still possible, as I said in the previous post. Even forgiveness for lack of true repentance. One can still be repentant without absolutely repenting and thus abstaining (due to his/her sinful nature).

You must, at some point, no longer willfully engage the remorseful/regretful act. Otherwise, your are not truly repenting.

To be repentant and to be perfect/sinless are two different things. What you're really talking about is perfection with regard to sinlessness, which is not possible in this life. In this life, we are not perfect at anything (far from it actually), and this includes our repentance. But we can be forgiven, of course, by confess our sins and asking God to forgive us (in addition to asking Him to grant us, by His Spirit, a deep and lasting repentance). One day we will be glorified and no longer able to sin because we will be wholly inclined against all sinful behavior.

We have already vetted out what 'repent' means. To simply be remorseful/regretful, or to even admit you are a sinner, does not mean you have repented of a sin. Again, please look at the active homosexual or the active prostitute examples.

See above.

Until you retract your prior statement that 'sin is sin', your explanation is filled with contradiction.

I will do no such thing. I can see why you think so, or think I should, but no.

And until you also care to qualify HOW much "repent" is necessary, you have no clue if you are saved.

Um, well, it should be clear from my last two or three posts (at least) that true, absolute, perfect repentance is not necessary, but a repentant, contrite heart is. And this repentant, contrite heart is the product of faith. So yes, let's talk about faith, POI, as you yourself suggested (but didn't follow through with). Faith, POI ~ faith resulting in salvation ~ is defined by the Bible itself in Hebrews 11:1, is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. Two things to say to this: (1) An assurance and conviction is internal, certainly, but is given to us from outside ourselves by... something, and (2) we can easily see in Ephesians 2:8 that true, saving faith is given to us (Christians) by God, by Whose grace (Christians) have been saved through faith, and this is not (our) own doing (but) the gift of God. So, far from "having no clue if (I am) saved," I am assured by the Lord that I am saved.

Nor, does the Bible disclose as much.

Oh, it does. Not thinking so does not make it untrue. See above.

Seems odd, being that we are speaking about the fate of your eternal soul here...

Yeah, it doesn't bother me. Good on you for understanding that we are eternal (future, not past and future, as God is) beings. The only question is where we will be in the age to come. I know that I will be with the Lord, because I am assured by the Lord that I am saved from condemnation for sin and the punishment of it. Which... doesn't make me somehow "better" than anyone else, but, well, it is what it is. For me, it's an unspeakable joy.

Grace and peace.